India drops out of 2012 PISA test

[Audio]

I am not looking for excuses. I am trying to say that Indians are not dumb. I am trying to say Indian students are quite good, and this PISA test does not reflect their real capabilities.

That said, what I am also trying to say is that we should review our educational system, and see where and if it lacks certain attributes, and if changes are actually necessary.

What Gotternub, fast etc are saying is that Indians are dumb. Its actually racist, but I'll leave it at that and wont dwell on such nonsense. Needless chest thumping because of some PISA score does not discount actual achievements in real life, that Indians have actually SHOWN that they can achieve. There is tons of proof for it. And because we have real life examples of success, facilitated by our education system, this result is indeed intriguing. So we have to analyze it from all angles than jump to conclusions and say , Indians are dumb. Which is nonsense.

dude, in every society there are shining individuals. PISA doesnt test that. It tries to determine (from a sample) the median knowledge of all. now if that sample is indicative of the whole population is another matter.

Yeah so how is that reflective of China or its education system anyway? Its like the Olympic medals they win, they train for a particular purpose. And do it again and again and again.

It reflects in a way that they will be great problem solvers and number crunchers, but wont be able to come up with a challenge that actually involves those skills and translates them into real life applications because they will be so involved in useless academia debates. For example.
They wont come up with quantum computing projects, will be unable to lead a team such as that, but will be a great asset to the team because of their number crunching abilities. Another example.

Think Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory series if you watch it by any chance.

 

[rcrmj]

those delusional indians keep making ludicrus excuses for their pathetic basic education system...

first they have no clue of what is PISA (keep using GMAT or GRE to compare with PISA)
second their delusion of 'bright' India is rather entertaining

PISA has nothing to do with testing a student's specific set of skills or knowledge, it only tests the fundamentals, in order not to be a retard you need common senses``as simple as that

 

[mfreak]

It tries to determine (from a sample) the median knowledge of all. now if that sample is indicative of the whole population is another matter.

Yeah you can only determine the median of the sample. Send a better sample and you'd have different results.

It reflects in a way that they will be great problem solvers and number crunchers, but wont be able to come up with a challenge that actually involves those skills and translates them into real life applications because they will be so involved in useless academia debates. For example.

I dont doubt that THOSE kids that scored high on the PISA, will be great problem solvers. Am asking if you can extrapolate that to ENTIRE china. Thats debatable to say the least.

those delusional indians keep making ludicrus excuses for their pathetic basic education system...

first they have no clue of what is PISA (keep using GMAT or GRE to compare with PISA)
second their delusion of 'bright' India is rather entertaining

PISA has nothing to do with testing a student's specific set of skills or knowledge, it only tests the fundamentals, in order not to be a retard you need common senses``

Given the fact that China indulges in "projection" exercises, its actually you that shouldn't delude yourself about the Chinese education system. Everyone knows how China actually manufactures its image around the world by hiding the bad parts and projecting the good parts.

That said, am not saying Chinese students arent capable or wont be able to repeat their performance. Am merely saying that China could have very selectively sent the best of the best, and that may not really reflect reality. So you can go ahead and be an obnoxious dude, spewing hatred for India, but that doesnt alter reality.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

And only a fraction take the PISA test too. And how would anyone know if these kids will ever take the GMAT or the GRE? Thats a nonsensical extrapolation that has no basis.

PISA does not care whether the student will ever take the GMAT or GRE test, it's randomly chosen, while students who want to take those tests are already prepared for that.

That is your opinion. What ideas you have in your head about India/Indians/Our culture etc is irrelevant and does not reflect reality. There is no pass/fail on the GMAT or the GRE. If you browsed through lots of GMAT forums, you will find that a lot of Indians with low GPA's in their school and college, actually score high on the GMAT. So the PISA test is not reflective of success, intelligence etc.,

Its a test that can at the most be used to gauge the TYPE of education, and maybe to a certain extend the quality of it. It doesnt say anything more than that.

The many excuses you guys made in this thread does form my opinion.

BTW, PISA does not reflect the intelligence or success but the school system. My country performed badly 12 years ago and we started to reform. Now we start to see some improvements, does that mean we were dumb 12 years ago and became more intelligents 12 years later?

 

[mfreak]

The many excuses you guys made in this thread does form my opinion.

If you expect Indians to simply say "You are right, we are dumb", then I guess your expectations are wrong. You did say in one of your previous posts that "There isnt a huge correlation between brilliant students and the PISA test". I am saying the students could have very well been brilliant, but not used to these methods of testing. This is not an excuse, this is analysis one needs to do.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Yeah you can only determine the median of the sample. Send a better sample and you'd have different results.

Why doesn't India send in a better sample and come out shining but instead opted to chicken out?

I dont doubt that THOSE kids that scored high on the PISA, will be great problem solvers. Am asking if you can extrapolate that to ENTIRE china. Thats debatable to say the least.



Given the fact that China indulges in "projection" exercises, its actually you that shouldn't delude yourself about the Chinese education system. Everyone knows how China actually manufactures its image around the world by hiding the bad parts and projecting the good parts.

That said, am not saying Chinese students arent capable or wont be able to repeat their performance. Am merely saying that China could have very selectively sent the best of the best, and that may not really reflect reality. So you can go ahead and be an obnoxious dude, spewing hatred for India, but that doesnt alter reality.

The thing is, PISA has a saying which school and what students are choosen for the tests and they did test in 12 provinces and all of them scored well.

If you expect Indians to simply say "You are right, we are dumb", then I guess your expectations are wrong. You did say in one of your previous posts that "There isnt a huge correlation between brilliant students and the PISA test". I am saying the students could have very well been brilliant, but not used to these methods of testing. This is not an excuse, this is analysis one needs to do.

You are the one who constantly said that Indians are dumb, while all I ever said was that many of you are living in denial and your school system sucks big time.

What is so hard for you to understand?

 

[mfreak]

Why doesn't India send in a better sample and come out shining but instead opted to chicken out?

You have to ask the government. Maybe they will the next time.

You are the one who constantly said that Indians are dumb, while all I ever said was that many of you are living in denial and your school system sucks big time.

No you said:

There isnt a huge correlation between brilliant students and the PISA test

This isnt about brilliance/intelligence of students. Its about the type of curriculum, method of study and testing they are used to. Whether that needs to change is something the govt needs to analyze.

 

[KRAIT]

Students are picked up in random out of sample set which is exposed to different type of education system and teaching methodology with less resources especially internet..That's why these test tilted towards those who have different and better exposure with information.

Go through my previous posts. If GRE, GMAT and SAT doesn't reflect Indian intellect, why are you so hell bent on PISA ?

Guys, first introduce other factors which constitutes the environment of Indian students. But I guess all just want to bash India instead of going through the previous posts.

 

[Audio]

The thing is, PISA has a saying which school and what students are choosen for the tests and they did test in 12 provinces and all of them scored well.

They obviously didnt have much say if you see that China is treated by provinces, artificially elevating the image. The other provinces tested lower, close to but lower then OECD average as per the wiki article i read. You can deduce from that, that if China was treated as a one country the result would be lower.
Capital cities tend to have good schools in them.

 

[Hellraiser007]

those delusional indians keep making ludicrus excuses for their pathetic basic education system...

first they have no clue of what is PISA (keep using GMAT or GRE to compare with PISA)
second their delusion of 'bright' India is rather entertaining

PISA has nothing to do with testing a student's specific set of skills or knowledge, it only tests the fundamentals, in order not to be a retard you need common senses``as simple as that

You are a delusional Chinese who think Chinese are the smartest and rant about fake racial superiority of Chinese with half baked truths and stupid logic.

These Chinese are the biggest threat to patent law world wide . These guys imitate other countries inventions and produce cheap copies of them and feel they are the smartest.


PISA is one of the tests there are other tests where India excel.

 

[rcrmj]

You are a delusional Chinese who think Chinese are the smartest and rant about fake racial superiority of Chinese with half baked truths and stupid logic.

where did I say that kid``? still butt hurting from the truth`?

now you start saying PISA is 'half-baked truth' along with PCT,WIPO and WB with same claims yesterday?

lol```you have too much reality check homeworks to do kido``

 

[Hellraiser007]

where did I say that kid``? still butt hurting from the truth`?

now you start saying PISA is 'half-baked truth' along with PCT,WIPO and WB with same claims yesterday?

lol```you have too much reality check homeworks to do kido``

One PISA test that too yearly basis who knows next year what happens. Small encouraging stat and with that you are eating and sleeping in this thread for almost a weak now

Check your previous posts you are contradicting yourself.

 

[ChinaToday]

Why doesn't India send in a better sample and come out shining but instead opted to chicken out?



they did send in their better sample in 2009but came out last, hence the need to ask Oecd to change the system to suit india students

... In India, only two states, Himachal Pradesh and Tamil Nadu, were part of the survey. Now, these are both states that are thought to offer the best educational infrastructure to schoolchildren in the country. But the results on a global scale are abysmal, with Himachal Pradesh recording the lowest reading score in PISA 2009 and 2009+, on a par with Kyrgyzstan. Tamil Nadu did slightly better with its overall score, which was nonetheless lower than any other country’s, besides Kyrgyzstan. One shudders to think of the results in states with worse general indicators than these two, such as Rajasthan or Bihar.

http://isteve.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/somebody-else-finally-picks-up-indian.html

 

[rcrmj]

One PISA test that too yearly basis who knows next year what happens. Small encouraging stat and with that you are eating and sleeping in this thread for almost a weak now

Check your previous posts you are contradicting yourself.

yeah sure, that two years tests proved that Indians education system produces mass low`quality students thats all, whether you take that or not, thats the reality``and that reasult fits the WIPO's definition of India's economy development stage - primitive factor driven stage

 

[Hellraiser007]

yeah sure, that two years tests proved that Indians education system produces mass low`quality students thats all, whether you take that or not, thats the reality``and that reasult fits the WIPO's definition of India's economy development stage - primitive factor driven stage

You Chinese have now right to talk about low quality or even quality.

This assertion is based on the violations of patents happening in China .

Regarding PISA tests they are one in hundred and there are other tests like "spell bee" and lot where India excels.