IAF plane in pakistan photo shown to COAS USA

[Always Neutral]

Yes, and one English article after Pakistan carried out the Bubur cruise missile test stated that it was a train hugging missile. That doesn't mean we have to lay railway tracks to Delhi or Bombay to operate it now does it, nor that Pakistan did not carry out the test.

The South Asian media is notorious for getting details wrong - the aircraft description would likely fall into that category - it doesn't negate the fact that an Indian intrusion occurred and the PAF fighter got a lock on the IAF fighter.

Even the IAf admitted that there may have been a 'technical violation' - if they are willing to admit that much then I'd say the chances of the alleged Pakistani claim being valid are pretty high.

All the more reason for PAF to show the world the photos ?

Ok lets get a bit technical. Members called it a VVR engagement then some called it just a lock, then some say there are pictures which were shown to the COAS of the US airforce. Only BBC urdu reports it. Then some say that it was carrying a full payload of weapons.

To many contradictions even if you leave the MIG 29 out.

Regards

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ok lets get a bit technical. Members called it a VVR engagement then some called it just a lock, then some say there are pictures which were shown to the COAS of the US airforce. Only BBC urdu reports it. Then some say that it was carrying a full payload of weapons.

To many contradictions even if you leave the MIG 29 out.

Regards

A WVR engagement could result in a lock, and the IAF fighter could have been carrying a full weapons load, and the images were shared with US officials to get the message across that lines were being crossed and they should act to restrain the concerned parties.

No contradictions in those points.

It is true that the incident was not widely reported and I don't believe the PAF itself confirmed it - perhaps the idea behind not publicizing the incident was to not inflame the environment even further, and act through diplomatic channels to ensure it was not repeated.

 

[Zob]

look if we showed the pictures of a lock to the US i think that is good enough for us.....there is no point showing videos to the world.... i think the indians just wanted to see PAFs response time....

 

[Always Neutral]

A WVR engagement could result in a lock, and the IAF fighter could have been carrying a full weapons load, and the images were shared with US officials to get the message across that lines were being crossed and they should act to restrain the concerned parties.

No contradictions in those points.

It is true that the incident was not widely reported and I don't believe the PAF itself confirmed it - perhaps the idea behind not publicizing the incident was to not inflame the environment even further, and act through diplomatic channels to ensure it was not repeated.

Highly unlikely. No one would send a fully loaded plane over the boundry that too a front line fighter when the GOI is just forming after elections. if it was true PAF and GOP would have immediately lodged a protest. Further IAF would never have taken a risk of its frontline fighter being shot down.

Lastly all Su's of the IAF were grounded for 4 weeks and the first flight was carried out yesterday after russian experts examined them. I doubt any sane person would send a grounded jet for a sortie over the border with weapons.

Regards

 

[Zob]

i doubt it send any fighters loaded with any sort of ammunation...infact i think they were stripped and there job was to do a high fast pass into and out of our airspace....just to see PAFs response time and see which SAM battaries get online and from which locations.....

and you said SU-30 were grounded for 4 weeks....if you know this incident happened in DECEMBER that is atleast 20or so weeks ago my friend...do you maths......

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Highly unlikely. No one would send a fully loaded plane over the boundry that too a front line fighter when the GOI is just forming after elections. if it was true PAF and GOP would have immediately lodged a protest. Further IAF would never have taken a risk of its frontline fighter being shot down.

Lastly all Su's of the IAF were grounded for 4 weeks and the first flight was carried out yesterday after russian experts examined them. I doubt any sane person would send a grounded jet for a sortie over the border with weapons.

Regards

Whats the difference between sending a loaded plane vs a non-loaded plane to violate another nation's airspace? Obviously the intent was not to be 'locked on', but to merely 'buzz' Pakistani airspace, and possibly test the response.

The risk of being shot down would be the same whether the AC was armed or not.

And the MKI's are still India's frontline and most advanced fighters, and would be a logical choice were the intent to 'buzz' Pakistani airspace and survive in case of an engagement. The grounding was done as a precaution after one crash in 12 years - it does not mean that the rest of the AC were all faulty and not flight worthy.

 

[Always Neutral]

i doubt it send any fighters loaded with any sort of ammunation...infact i think they were stripped and there job was to do a high fast pass into and out of our airspace....just to see PAFs response time and see which SAM battaries get online and from which locations.....

and you said SU-30 were grounded for 4 weeks....if you know this incident happened in DECEMBER that is atleast 20or so weeks ago my friend...do you maths......

Well the article is in Urdu so you can't blame me. If it was in December than all the more reason to think its supect.

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

Whats the difference between sending a loaded plane vs a non-loaded plane to violate another nation's airspace? Obviously the intent was not to be 'locked on', but to merely 'buzz' Pakistani airspace, and possibly test the response.

The risk of being shot down would be the same whether the AC was armed or not.

And the MKI's are still India's frontline fighters, and would be a logical choice were the intent to 'buzz' Pakistani airspace. The grounding was done as a precaution after one crash in 12 years - it does not mean that the rest of the AC were all faulty and not flight worthy.

If its to buzz than they would use a Mig 21 not a Su 30. Why would they give the PAF a chance to see if their radars can lock on to it. Further since the article is untranslated there is not much to debate on the merits of it. Neo said he was escorted out again hard to believe.

Regards

 

[Zob]

Well the article is in Urdu so you can't blame me. If it was in December than all the more reason to think its supect.

Regards

why may that be?? this is an old tactic that airforces do....before US invaded IRAQ it violated IRAQI airspace many times inorder to see how the IRAQIs respond...what SAM battaries come onlnie and from what locations.....it is a tactic used to get cheap quick and first hand knowledge of the enemies response time and its startegic defence locations & assets!!

 

[blain2]

AM,

You always put your best foot forth. If IAF want to snoop or test Pakistani Air Defence readiness, they will either use the Mirage 2000 or the MKI because both have decent ECM & ELINT collection capabilities which most of their other platforms lack.

BBC Urdu should not be considered to be suspect (as in providing a Pakistani POV which it does not). Its written for by people who are on BBC's payroll and they write very probing stories about Pakistan.

 

[ajpirzada]

Highly unlikely. No one would send a fully loaded plane over the boundry that too a front line fighter when the GOI is just forming after elections. if it was true PAF and GOP would have immediately lodged a protest. Further IAF would never have taken a risk of its frontline fighter being shot down.

Lastly all Su's of the IAF were grounded for 4 weeks and the first flight was carried out yesterday after russian experts examined them. I doubt any sane person would send a grounded jet for a sortie over the border with weapons.

Regards

wat are u on about. which elections?? there were no election goin on in Dec 2008 forget about formin gov

 

[ajpirzada]

question...
arent there jammers to avoid BVR??
shouldnt be too hard

 

[Always Neutral]

wat are u on about. which elections?? there were no election goin on in Dec 2008 forget about formin gov

I guess patience is a virtue lost on most. Please read what I said to Zob when he said the incident happened in Dec 2008.

Regards

 

[ajpirzada]

I guess patience is a virtue lost on most. Please read what I said to Zob when he said the incident happened in Dec 2008.

Regards

what did u say........this

If it was in December than all the more reason to think its supect.

y do u think this is supposed to convince anyone?

 

[Always Neutral]

what did u say........this



y do u think this is supposed to convince anyone?

The article is in Urdu so my comments were based on the one line translation of Neo which talked about PAF MIG 29's



Regards