IAF plane in pakistan photo shown to COAS USA

[Keysersoze]

yet you made this post in contravention of your advice?

anyways, the posts were in line with the spirit of the thread and the logical explanation was taken up and dissected by members who understood my line of posting and adequately rebutted/responded to the same.

appreciation of the concept of conflict management and escalation, an essential to every conflict that is waged, is something which is not easily appreciated by untrained minds, and as such you can be forgiven for totally failing to appreciate how enemy preparedness/defences are probed by professional soldiers, which are in adequate numbers on both Indian and Pakistani sides.

Successful transgressions/violations without casualties have been undertaken by both sides on a regular basis from time to time, be it in air or on ground. The high standards of professionalism exhibited in conduct of such missions (which are anyways always kept out of public domain for obvious reasons) speaks volumes of both sides professional approach.

In addition, the whole exercise, of violation, and the subsequent "lock on" was covert communication, that IAF wanted PAF to know it was ready, and PAF to IAF that it was waiting.

Any Indian AC moving into Pakistani Airspace would have been shot down without any warning if it was within the legal airspace of Pakistan, and India could do naught about it, something like what happened in Atlantique incident.

The services on both sides pretty well understand the risks involved, and treat each other with respect, a respect that only professionals can share and give!

Thanks

All of the aboe is contrary to what MuradK a ACTUAL fighter pilot has stated. So your post was a total waste of time. Several senior members were told of the incident BEFORE it got reported and it was checked PRIOR to it being reported. I was even told HOW it was done (Which certain MKI fanboys find it hard to believe). SO frankly Hellfire you can rage about the details as much as you want.

 

[Hellfire]

dude you should be working for hollywood; you would prove to be a valuable ASSet for them

yeah am thinking on that line, especially since Pakistan is suddenly a hot favorite ASSet in WOT to beat with a stick .... plenty of potential for me to make up scenarios where Pakistani nukes are falling into Talib hands and the GoP is subservient to Talibs!!!!!

Will contact you soon once I am signed on,

 

[Enigma SIG]

yeah am thinking on that line, especially since Pakistan is suddenly a hot favorite ASSet in WOT to beat with a stick .... plenty of potential for me to make up scenarios where Pakistani nukes are falling into Talib hands and the GoP is subservient to Talibs!!!!!

Will contact you soon once I am signed on,

Yeah the nukes are on open display in swat for the talibs to take

seriously tho; i removed my prior comment

 

[Hellfire]

All of the aboe is contrary to what MuradK a ACTUAL fighter pilot has stated. So your post was a total waste of time. Several senior members were told of the incident BEFORE it got reported and it was checked PRIOR to it being reported. I was even told HOW it was done (Which certain MKI fanboys find it hard to believe). SO frankly Hellfire you can rage about the details as much as you want.

Keysersoze

1. Am not "raging" actually its funny.

2. Your SOP for AD clearly states initiation of interceptive proceedures and acquisition of target and formulation of fire solution in case any flying craft crosses into the 10 km no fly zone on Indian side itself. Its an Indian SOP too.

3. Now if we were to humor the contention that Su-30 actually crossed into Pakistani Airspace, it speaks volumes of your AD arrangements. Failure to acquire the AC could only be due to:

a. Employment of ECMs and active jamming by Sukhoi.

b. Low level and short duration of penetration.

And in both cases you would not get a lock on in a small window of time as in former you have to achieve a "burn through" and in latter, you have to actively scan by aerial radars (from your CAP maybe) and then locate the AC!!!

4. Any cross over would entail active jamming of ground based RADARS by the Su-30 as AD Arty units on Pakistani side would have engaged the AC irrespective of GoP's statement as its the standing order. The AC in that case would expect to be shot at (especially in lieu of heightened tensions) and NO INDIAN PILOT WOULD BE foolish not to use all resources if he was entering hostile airspace especially of a platform like Su-30.

5. Please do calculate the flight time taken by a Su-30 to travel 14 kms (10 km in no fly zone on Indian side & 4 Kms as claimed into Pakistani Airspace). If at any point it was in the said area for some time, it would have been engaged by AD units there. And if it was a quickie to check your response, then you cant have your "lock on" Its too unrealistic and far fetched that you acquired the AC from F-16 Radar as soon as it entered Pak airspace and also that Su-30 DIDNOT resort to ECMs/Evasive maneuvers upon identification of an airborne threat. And your scramble time is not so quick irrespective of any airforce that they are able to intercept in 4 kms violation (time window is in seconds here). And in the small fraction of time you managed to take a pic as also determine that it was carrying a mission load?

6. You have to accept that you got a lock on on an AC in Indian side itself, and you have just publicised the report as part of a diplomatic move to pressurise US and west to ask India to back out (from what I never knew till date).

7. Your whole contention so far has been nothing but non-sensical inclusive of the explanation given on Geo TV that you didnt shoot down the AC as it was weaponised and would have caused civillian caualties

8. Infact, I think the whole thread is a waste of time. And please this is not fanboy stuff, I know what I am talking about.

 

[Hellfire]

Yeah the nukes are on open display in swat for the talibs to take

seriously tho; i removed my prior comment

thats what the entire world community thinks .... (read US) and they are wetting their pants on it

too good

anyways thanks I enjoyed that post, was a welcome relief from serious talks

 

[Keysersoze]

Actually hellfire you are not in possesion of the full facts. so again your points are incorrect. I could tell you exactly which type (and the no's) of aircraft were involved. The pilots who flew them and the tactics they used.
Now there is a precedent to this kind of activity and I will take the word of combat pilots over you I am afraid. further more your arguing over which type of aircraft to be used is subject to political factors. (you send low flying aircraft and it WILL be construed as an attack)
the same with ECM etc if they start using it it will be seen as a attempt to hide and would increase the likelyhood of being shot down. (read the MK post re this)

 

[Keysersoze]

Oh and I am laughing about how quickly MKI fanboys come to the defence of their precious aircraft.

 

[Screaming Skull]

I watched this long time back when the incident actually took place. Here Mr. Zardari is addressing a press conference with British PM Mr. Gordon Brown. I suggest the members just take the president's word for it and put an end to all other speculations.

 

[Hellfire]

Oh and I am laughing about how quickly MKI fanboys come to the defence of their precious aircraft.

ok then lets both laugh at each other and move on .....what say?

 

[Hellfire]

Keysersoze

Actually hellfire you are not in possesion of the full facts

Be rest assured that its only Pakistani side of facts am not in "possesion" of ........


so again your points are incorrect

incorrect? how? without getting into specifics, can you just enlighten me how did an AC penetrate 4 kms inside Pak airspace without being shot down when SOP gives direction of fire solution being ready from the moment the AC breaks the 10 km buffer? and was the AC waiting for PAF ACs to come before crossing so you could "lock on"?


I could tell you exactly which type (and the no's) of aircraft were involved. The pilots who flew them and the tactics they used.

I could not really care about the types orthe pilots or the tactics. I could tell you the said pilot who was in the region too on Indian side, and I could tell you he was in a Mig-29 off Adampur and not a damn Su-30 and was well inside Indian territory when they "painted" him and your guys could not differentiate between a twin engine Su-30 and a Mig-29 inspite of a smaller signature they must be having on their screen!! It would not make a difference, for logically you can not tally what has been said and what happened.


Now there is a precedent to this kind of activity and I will take the word of combat pilots over you I am afraid.

I really could not care about your belief or disbelief of the same, I asked you to logically explain the whole situation, and it falls flat there itself. Irrespective of whatever tactics, your CAP will need mins to track and lock on an intruding AC!!! and 4 kms doesnot give you mins!!!!

And on top of that, the ATC on Indian side was on watch so the straying was only into 10 km no fly zone and that too Indian side!!!

further more your arguing over which type of aircraft to be used is subject to political factors.

Political?
Your government decides on platforms to be used?
There is some logic in any act, and even your President conceeded the incident to be technical, and Indian AC was in the 10 km buffer, that is why!


(you send low flying aircraft and it WILL be construed as an attack)
the same with ECM etc if they start using it it will be seen as a attempt to hide and would increase the likelyhood of being shot down.

If you have operated in forward locs, then you shall appreciate that irrespective of whether ECMs are on or not, or whether there is high altitude or low altitude, the rules clearly authorise the personnel to engage, especially when the forces were in heightened alert level!



(read the MK post re this)

no doubt he is respected for his views and I have similar sentiments for him, but his interpretation of the situation may not necessarily reflect the actualities.