IAF plane in pakistan photo shown to COAS USA

[mhacsan]

I have said it a 100 times you can't just shoot a plane, weather he is in Pakistan Air Space or over lahore .If the planes take any aggressive action then yes can can open fire, SOP is to escort them out of the airspace.
1982 weather was bad one of our F-6 because of bad weather and a junior officer ended up 50 miles inside India. He was escorted back into Pakistan Air Space.
Easy for you to say shoot them down are you ready to fight when the time comes. I don't think so

Sir Mradk jee

with all the respect in the world. dont u think that we are being lenient on certain fronts, firstly leting plans violate our airspace and then say them good bye with thanks becz that they did not take any aggresive action. and what if he had blown the whole cantt area and then we react. is it not reactive rather than proactive strategy?

Secondly sir jee, dont you think we are being constantly pushed on back foot by these defence thinking. some times we let USA drones to attack now we are letting bloody indian plans hover over us. we must beat the **** out of them so next time they could not even imagine to even think about this. how do thet dare? for how long we will keep justiying things over our integrity.

 

[Neo]

1999 - Indian Migs shoot down an unarmed Atlantique of the PN inside Pakistani Airspace after attempts to hijack the aircraft failed! Why should such liberty be offered to an armed SU-30MKI which is deep inside our territory is beyond my comprehension....you mean to tell me that any Indian fighter jet can come and survey our territory unless intercepted as it will only be escorted back instead of being shot down! When will we avenge the Atlantique? Wasn't this the best opportunity? Even if the Su-30MKI had no aggressive intentions the rest of the world didn't know that...should have shot it down just the same as we had every right to do so after violation of our Air Space!

We do not want war my friend, but be assured if war is ever imposed on us....we will stand shoulder to shoulder with our armed forces, Indian's or any other aggressor will not have a million or so forces to deal with, they will have to deal with 150 million Pakistani's who will unite like a fist for Pakistan!

Do you have any idea who you're talking to? Sir Murad is a decorated ex-PAF pilot, his opinion is based on knowledge and experience rather than blind jingoism. Better listen to him and learn.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

If that SU-30 was at Kharian then perhaps it was a courtesy call for kharian_beast I think

They came, they saw, they ran.

 

[Muradk]

Friends no one I know wants a War. Yes when a war is declared then a plane crosses your Air space he is toast except UN planes. The first time I went into a storm I could not imagine that an F-86 can be thrown from 20000ft to 10000ft in a couple of sec. Sometimes you do mistakes and enter someones back yard but that doesn't mean that they will shoot you down they also know the protocol what to do in such cases.
The Navy Plane AT got shot down was a 50 50 fault on both sides they kept saying dont cross the BZ and we used to do that every second day, NAVY has never listened to anyone since 1947. iF they were escorted by Mirages first the PAF would have ordered them to stay back and follow protocol but they took off and told PAF when AT was in trouble.
My friend revenge is something you need to think 10 times before to take it, One wrong move may destroy decades of diplomacy.

 

[Awesome]

Friends no one I know wants to a War. Yes when a war is declared then a plane crosses your Air space he is toast except UN planes. The first time I went into a storm I could not imagine that an F-86 can be thrown from 20000ft to 10000ft in a couple of sec. Sometimes you do mistakes and enter someones back yard but that doesn't mean that they will shoot you down they also know the protocol what to do in such cases.
The Navy Plane AT got shot down was a 50 50 fault on both sides they kept saying dont cross the BZ and we used to do that every second day, NAVY has never listened to anyone since 1947. iF they were escorted by Mirages first the PAF would have ordered them to stay back and follow protocol but they took off and told PAF when AT was in trouble.
My friend revenge is something you need to think 10 times before to take it, One wrong move any destroy decades of diplomacy.

Who gives the order to engage in such situation? Is it on the pilot's discretion, COAS or comes from the PM house? Or is it all based upon protocol? Like if certain parameters are met, we will have to engage?

Some indications for this intrusion are pointing towards the fact that IAF was checking out our defense installation, our response time, our radars, our sams. Basically making it a recon mission.

Would be useful to take out the enemy on recon missions too, and perhaps some of the data doesn't reach home (I'm assuming there was no link). Also it will discourage future recon missions and India be forced to use UAVs.

 

[Awesome]

Sir Mradk jee

with all the respect in the world. dont u think that we are being lenient on certain fronts, firstly leting plans violate our airspace and then say them good bye with thanks becz that they did not take any aggresive action. and what if he had blown the whole cantt area and then we react. is it not reactive rather than proactive strategy?

Secondly sir jee, dont you think we are being constantly pushed on back foot by these defence thinking. some times we let USA drones to attack now we are letting bloody indian plans hover over us. we must beat the **** out of them so next time they could not even imagine to even think about this. how do thet dare? for how long we will keep justiying things over our integrity.

Dude, its the Pakistan Air Force, not some street gang. We only attack in self-defence, and have to give way when the enemy is retreating without firing a shot.

 

[Muradk]

Pilot in the Air is the Tip of the Sword yes he can decide to engage but he is also in touch with GCI who are in touch with Air defense command, COAS the PM. Any one can say engage. Sometimes you are just praying that please say engage because you have a perfect shot the hand deck can change is a sec.
And then you have some pilots I will not name them very famous people the GCI kept saying dont shoot and they said what what and bang and them the pilot says well I thought you said shoot. 1971.

 

[must7]

Friends no one I know wants to a War. Yes when a war is declared then a plane crosses your Air space he is toast except UN planes. The first time I went into a storm I could not imagine that an F-86 can be thrown from 20000ft to 10000ft in a couple of sec. Sometimes you do mistakes and enter someones back yard but that doesn't mean that they will shoot you down they also know the protocol what to do in such cases.
The Navy Plane AT got shot down was a 50 50 fault on both sides they kept saying dont cross the BZ and we used to do that every second day, NAVY has never listened to anyone since 1947. iF they were escorted by Mirages first the PAF would have ordered them to stay back and follow protocol but they took off and told PAF when AT was in trouble.
My friend revenge is something you need to think 10 times before to take it, One wrong move any destroy decades of diplomacy.

This is the reason I have always wanted people with ground experience at the helm of affairs is because they are mature and realize what war can bring.

They don't need to be reminded that even the enemies have families too. I remember an old saying "a food friendship is deadlier than a wise persons enemity" !

 

[Awesome]

Pilot in the Air is the Tip of the Sword yes he can decide to engage but he is also in touch with GCI who are in touch with Air defense command, COAS the PM. Any one can say engage. Sometimes you are just praying that please say engage because you have a perfect shot the hand deck can change is a sec.
And then you have some pilots I will not name them very famous people the GCI kept saying dont shoot and they said what what and bang and them the pilot says well I thought you said shoot. 1971.

Later they say "Aaah, DONT shoot, I missed the Don't"

I wonder who that fly boy was...

 

[Anwar2]

Muradk: A PAF Cessna flown by a Sqn Ldr in the late 70’s lost its way and made a forced landing in India. Both the plane and pilot were returned. Indian Airliners flying to Kabul have left tracks and made weather diversions on numerous occasions.

BUT the circumstances of S-30 incursion are quite a bit different; it’s the case of an impending war. My naïve understanding of “Escorting out” procedure follows a contact on Guard channel, Positive Visual ID or ID turns and then passing on the outbound vectors. In this case none were followed.

Probably we don’t have the CAP resources to intercept all conceivable short-range incursions all along our border; but to accept it as a fait accompli for the fear of triggering a full-scale war does not foster confidence.

 

[IceCold]

Pilot in the Air is the Tip of the Sword yes he can decide to engage but he is also in touch with GCI who are in touch with Air defense command, COAS the PM. Any one can say engage. Sometimes you are just praying that please say engage because you have a perfect shot the hand deck can change is a sec.
And then you have some pilots I will not name them very famous people the GCI kept saying dont shoot and they said what what and bang and them the pilot says well I thought you said shoot. 1971.

Sir i'll prefer the second ones this time around

 

[Muradk]

Muradk: A PAF Cessna flown by a Sqn Ldr in the late 70’s lost its way and made a forced landing in India. Both the plane and pilot were returned. Indian Airliners flying to Kabul have left tracks and made weather diversions on numerous occasions.

BUT the circumstances of S-30 incursion are quite a bit different; it’s the case of an impending war. My naïve understanding of “Escorting out” procedure follows a contact on Guard channel, Positive Visual ID or ID turns and then passing on the outbound vectors. In this case none were followed.

Probably we don’t have the CAP resources to intercept all conceivable short-range incursions all along our border; but to accept it as a fait accompli for the fear of triggering a full-scale war does not foster confidence.

I am not going into Figures they still remain confidential of how many planes we can get in the air in 3 min, Well since 2000 things might have changed which I don't even know, But I can guarantee you 100% if a Visual is in Tally authorization will go to hell they will engage there is so much of hate between the 2 forces PAF and IAF. That is why when India tried to check our response time they were quite surprised to see that there radars picked us up with in couple of sec. Oppss for them now we know the capabilities of there RWR.
That is why China , UK, USA all are trying to defuse the tension between them. I don't know how many of you know how World WW1 started. If you look back in History it was just mis-communication and a few happy triggered men and the world was on fire.
If the 2 countries don't fight the Indian Media will make sure they do the way they are portraing the whole movement, It will lead us into trouble. India is the one who started all this they are the ones who by mistake entered PAk Air space by accident from 2 places ( What the pilots had to much Vodka or what) someone has to shut them up because they are scaring a lot of people for no reason what so ever.

And the PAF Cessna flown by a Sqn Ldr in the late 70’s, was not a Sqd/Ldr he was a Wing Commander late Farooq and his son Bilal going from shorkot to lahore due to bad weather the plane crashed a few miles indside Indian Air Space. The Crash happend on 8th August 1979 at 11:23AM. IAF was very kind to send the plane and the 2 bodies back with full military tradition to Chaklala.

 

[ahussains]

Sir now the thing are very change they always try to underestimate us and they always started it first the Indian Media Put both of us at the brink of the WAR and they are doing nothing to stop it, On the other hand we are giving justifications and many and many more but when we are ready to give the response in there own language .. then nothing

 

[ahussains]

Can any one let me know if India didnt attack Pakistan and Mumbai Attacks responsable are the indians and if this was a indian Agencies planed mission then who is going to responsable to create such tension between two countries .

 

[dashing_dear]

yaaar I was in kharian in those days.....we didn't saw, listened anything like that
just from news...