General Zia explaining how Afghan Jihad is safeguarding Pakistan.

[Shapur]

Yeap that's what I said . Apart from tribal belt very few areas had this culture pre 80's After 79 this cancer had spread to all over Pakistan . Not only that it increased the amount of crimes and slums here .

I thought you were implying that Chars, Naswar and gun culture were brought to Pakistan by Afghan refugees. I am Pashtun myself and been all over Pakhtunkhwa so I know pretty well that so called gun culture wasn't just restricted to tribal areas. Pashtuns throughout history have been a martial race, they used to own swords and now own guns, different technology, same concept. Look at the Khattak dance with the swords, Khattaks are not so called tribals but even they encorporate warrior aspect in their dance.

 

[Khan_21]

I thought you were implying that Chars, Naswar and gun culture were brought to Pakistan by Afghan refugees. I am Pashtun myself and been all over Pakhtunkhwa so I know pretty well that so called gun culture wasn't just restricted to tribal areas. Pashtuns throughout history have been a martial race, they used to own swords and now own guns, different technology, same concept. Look at the Khattak dance with the swords, Khattaks are not so called tribals but even they encorporate warrior aspect in their dance.

My original point was before 79 very few areas were affected by this phenomenon .Provinces which were alien to Kalashnikov culture like Punjab and Sindh started having ak-47's .After Gun and chars the biggest negative impact was they made slums in all major cities destroying the general outlook of the cities .

BTW i am a khattak myself and yes we do have guns but that culture is slowly dying away for good .

 

[Samandri]

Yeap that's what I said . Apart from tribal belt very few areas had this culture pre 80's After 79 this cancer had spread to all over Pakistan . Not only that it increased the amount of crimes and slums here .

It seems to me you are not much familiar with Pakhtun belt. Go to baitaks of Pashtuns in settled areas and you may find very old kohatay topaks of British times hanging on the wall

BTW i am a khattak myself and yes we do have guns but that culture is slowly dying away for good .

Khattaks are different, .......very very different nowadays!.......so much that from their acts, behaviors and mannerism, they cant be recognized as Pashtuns. Whats up with you Khattaks and Nowshera-wals going so hard against Bar Afghans on this forum?. Take it easy, you people are already much badnaam for lack of Pashto

About AK47, you can not blame Afghans for it. Its America and ISI which is to be blamed, they introduced Ak47 to Pashtun belt of both countries for war against Soviets.

@Shapur

 

[Bratva]

I think you have answered your own position, which is that you used Afghan Jihad as a pretext to save your own skin which is fine because it was in your interest and we are unlucky to begin with and idiots at the same time because we were used but the reason that I posted this was that before some of the folks here in PDF moan about refugees remember that architect of Jihad aka Zia is saying that we did to save Pakistan and the side effects of that is refugees so stop complaining about refugees or kalashnikov culture because it price that you guys were willing to pay.

Of course refugees were used as foot soldiers not only in Afghanistan but also in Kashmir adventure as well.

So in summary what I am trying to say that there are no white pigeons here, the public in Pakistan may have been hospitable but the establishment did all this not because Afghans are brothers but because they were tools.

/Peace



- Pashtunistan thingy was a mistake to begin with and Dawood shouldn't have started that in the first place.

- I agree Afghans shouldn't complain about the 80s the same that Pakistanis should stop complaining about the 1947 Afghan vote.

I for one don't complain about the 80s what I complain about the Pakistani establishment policies of today, Mullah Mansoor carrying Pakistani passport and being killed in Pakistan is not the 80s episode but just couple days old.

Makes sense?

/Peace

Why is it only Pakistan fault when Afghanistan equally knew about Mullah mansoor travel logs and knew from the begining that he was taking foriegn trips on Pakistani credentials ? If you are following news coming out after his killing, It was an understanding b/w all 4 countries about freedom of movement for Mullah mansoor.

How do you think America was able to track Mullah mansoor in only 8-9 months and kill him while they were unable to kill Mullah ommar in 14 years ?

 

[Samandri]

Look at the Khattak dance with the swords, Khattaks are not so called tribals but even they encorporate warrior aspect in their dance.

Some one said jokingly that Sword was given to the Khattak for battle but he started dancing with it. Bhang Ba largy nashi khatak ba sarry nashi..........On one hand stereotypes against Khattaks, that they are beghairat, are not commendable.....but they themselves are not much helpful in dispensing this strong image about them, they prove others right on most of the occasions.

 

[Bratva]

Flawed logic! Zero sum games has no winners, so by that logic next time Afghanistan has the upper hand then we make you suffer, I for one see a different alternative which is pan regional development a model like Europe where we will win.

Which, you are doing since 2005-2006. You have a upper hand because of Indian involvement and RAW helping NDS.

 

[Khan_21]

It seems to me you are not much familiar with Pakhtun belt. Go to baitaks of Pashtuns in settled areas and you may find very old kohatay topaks of British times hanging on the wall


Khattaks are different, .......very very different nowadays!.......so much that from their acts, behaviors and mannerism, they cant be recognized as Pashtuns. Whats up with you Khattaks and Nowshera-wals going so hard against Bar Afghans on this forum?. Take it easy, you people are already much badnaam for lack of Pashto

About AK47, you can not blame Afghans for it. Its America and ISI which is to be blamed, they introduced Ak47 to Pashtun belt of both countries for war against Soviets.

@Shapur

Lack of pashto? You feeling ok. Khattaks are one of the most educated tribes amongst pashtuns and have went on to achieve great things. Check their literacy rates compared to other pashtun tribes.

I am more interested in being educated and giving something back to my country rather than brandishing guns in my baitak and calling myself pashtun ghairatmand. Those days are long gone. As for going hard on afghans well be it nowshera or mardan or abbotabad they are involved in crimes and everyone wants them to go back its already been 40 years.

Some one said jokingly that Sword was given to the Khattak for battle but he started dancing with it. Bhang Ba largy nashi khatak ba sarry nashi..........On one hand stereotypes against Khattaks, that they are beghairat, are not commendable.....but they themselves are not much helpful in dispensing this strong image about them, they prove others right on most of the occasions.

These quotes about khattaks or whichever tribes are said by illiterate people and i keep myself away from such low life people. BTW are you an afghan living in Pakistan?..

 

[A-Team]

@A-Team .. Dear what's your stand on Daud's misadventures..

I think his policies vis-a-vis Pakistan were immature and as a politician I find him as a failure and in the end he paid for it with his life.

But he was a nationalist and honest man and not a criminal.

 

[Shapur]

Some one said jokingly that Sword was given to the Khattak for battle but he started dancing with it. Bhang Ba largy nashi khatak ba sarry nashi..........On one hand stereotypes against Khattaks, that they are beghairat, are not commendable.....but they themselves are not much helpful in dispensing this strong image about them, they prove others right on most of the occasions.

I am no expert on Khattaks but maybe those quotes are just for fun or from jealousy, at least the Khattaks produced one of the greatest Pashtun Philosopher/Poet/Warrior, mard e momin, Kushal Khattak .Thats what the Khattaks should be known for. I don't know about the current situation but Pashtuns are evolving like everbody else so ofcourse not everyone can be textbook Pukhtun.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Nations rise and fall all the time ( natural progression) , Afghanistan has been here for 5000 years and wont fragment, while Pakistan lost half of herself just being less than 100 years old.

Looking back post 2001 I see Afghanistan progressing forward with all the crap being thrown at it, but can you genuinely feel that Pakistan of 1990s wasn't better than Pakistan of today?

That being said I actually want Pakistan to succeed because a Afghanistan can only succeed when the neighbourhood is successful.

More later... on.

What are you smoking? 5000 years ago this whole region including Afghanistan, Iran and western India was ruled and governed by the Indus empire, ancient greater Pakistan, by the ancestors of present day Pakistanis, the people of river Indus plains and Valley. We sit on top of food chain , we gave humanity civilization long before babylon and Egypt. Pakistan is a phenomena which has always existed from the day Adam was ejected from heaven to present time, right here at banks of river Indus.

You in Afghanistan are an offshoot of Indus. Infact all of humanity.

 

[Samandri]

I am no expert on Khattaks but maybe those quotes are just for fun or from jealousy, at least the Khattaks produced one of the greatest Pashtun Philosopher/Poet/Warrior, mard e momin, Kushal Khattak .Thats what the Khattaks should be known for. I don't know about the current situation but Pashtuns are evolving like everbody else so ofcourse not everyone can be textbook Pukhtun.

There is no such thing as "textbook Pakhtun", it must be a term coined by Western Pashtuns. You are saying that other tribes are jealous of Khattaks because Khushal Khan Khattak belonged to it?, thats very dumb.

Khattaks are one of the most educated tribes amongst pashtuns and have went on to achieve great things. .

Literacy rate amongst Khattaks is same as Muhammadzais, Khalils or Mandanrs etc........And who told you that by holding an academic degree, you attain "sarritob" ?. If one is raised and grown up as 'Kamasal' , 'Beghairat' and 'Spineless', he is going to remain so even after passing MBBS, ISSB, CSS etc

 

[Khan_21]

There is no such thing as "textbook Pakhtun", it must be a term coined by Western Pashtuns. You are saying that other tribes are jealous of Khattaks because Khushal Khan Khattak belonged to it?, thats very dumb.


Literacy rate amongst Khattaks is same as Muhammadzais, Khalils or Mandanrs etc........And who told you that by holding an academic degree, you attain "sarritob" ?. If one is raised and grown up as 'Kamasal' , 'Beghairat' and 'Spineless', he is going to remain so even after passing MBBS, ISSB, CSS etc

And neither does owning guns , Growing huge moustache , Doing hawai firing makes you a ghairatmand pakhtoon. All this talk of ghairatmand and beghairat is very illiterate and does not belong anywhere in today's time and was better off if used in stoneage .

As for Khattak's Most of them live in cities . They are well integrated in Pakistani society . If by wearing jeans , Remaining up-to date and being educated is kamasal than so be it . Then again you wouldn't understand because am talking to an afghani who's mentality and thinking is from 500 BC .

 

[Indus Pakistan]

And neither does owning guns , Growing huge moustache , Doing hawai firing makes you a ghairatmand pakhtoon. All this talk of ghairatmand and beghairat is very illiterate and does not belong anywhere in today's time and was better off if used in stoneage .

Well said. Could not say it any better. I am frankly sick of this "stoneage" rubbish that has no use in today's world other than as mark of ignorance and left over of tribal/village mentality. Evolution is law of nature. Adapt and change or perish. For history buff like @Samandri should know this. Time does not stand for any man.

 

[Samandri]

And neither does owning guns , Growing huge moustache , Doing hawai firing makes you a ghairatmand pakhtoon. All this talk of ghairatmand and beghairat is very illiterate and does not belong anywhere in today's time and was better off if used in stoneage .

Is this your notion of Ghairat and Pashto?, i was right, you dont know much about Pashtuns.

As for Khattak's Most of them live in cities .

By saying this, you have revealed that you are not a Khattak and Pashtun but some poser

They are well integrated in Pakistani society . If by wearing jeans , Remaining up-to date and being educated is kamasal than so be it . Then again you wouldn't understand because am talking to an afghani who's mentality and thinking is from 500 BC .

What is your qualification, Patloon-boy ?

Well said. Could not say it any better. I am frankly sick of this "stoneage" rubbish that has no use in today's world other than as mark of ignorance and left over of tribal/village mentality. Evolution is law of nature. Adapt and change or perish. For history buff like @Samandri should know this. Time does not stand for any man.

Its not that. He is blaming Afghan-Pashtuns for introducing guns and naswar into Pashtun belt of Pakistan. I have simply corrected him that its not true , historically. In 19th century , my people are mentioned to be using Naswar while he is claiming that it was imported from Afghanistan after 80s.........

 

[Khan_21]

Is this your notion of Ghairat and Pashto?, i was right, you dont know much about Pashtuns.


By saying this, you have revealed that you are not a Khattak and Pashtun but some poser


What is your qualification, Patloon-boy ?

First of all change your Flag to Afghanistan . Are you one of those afghans who got mistreated here and is butthurt ? Have this talk of ghairatmandi with your afghan counterparts as they understand this medieval stuff much better . That's why they are in such a messed up shape since 40 years . Go and see your loy and bar afghanistan how modern and well off it is due to such Ghairatmand people in it. For people like you all your ghairat comes down to mistreating women , treating them like slaves , being a hypocrite , doing hawai firing in weddings etc etc .

We have a country for such like minded people and that is loy and bar afghanistan . BTW when are you going back to your ghairatmand kaum ?