General Zia explaining how Afghan Jihad is safeguarding Pakistan.

[A-Team]

So we supported you , countless Pakistani who fought and died alongside with you, fighting the Soviet occupiers, and because of us you are still classed as a nation, some what, and here you are moaning about the Pakistani establishment playing games. OFCOURSE, supporting Afghan Jihad was our compulsion as we have already seen what the Soviets did to us during the 1971 east Pakistan war with their buddies India. The last things we wanted is to get completely sandwiched between Red army on one side and Indian on other.

This needs to be looked into and understood with no other context then what I wrote above.



Its just a propaganda campaign by these northern Alliance terrorists. What they always fail to realise that their living god, Ahmed Shah Masood was trained by SSG in Chirat to fight the soviets.

I think you have answered your own position, which is that you used Afghan Jihad as a pretext to save your own skin which is fine because it was in your interest and we are unlucky to begin with and idiots at the same time because we were used but the reason that I posted this was that before some of the folks here in PDF moan about refugees remember that architect of Jihad aka Zia is saying that we did to save Pakistan and the side effects of that is refugees so stop complaining about refugees or kalashnikov culture because it price that you guys were willing to pay.

Of course refugees were used as foot soldiers not only in Afghanistan but also in Kashmir adventure as well.

So in summary what I am trying to say that there are no white pigeons here, the public in Pakistan may have been hospitable but the establishment did all this not because Afghans are brothers but because they were tools.

/Peace

Just like one of the direct consequences of trying to promote Pashtunistan was incurring the wrath and hatred of the Pakistani establishment.

What Afghans need to understand is they can't continue complaining about the '80s and Pakistan's mentality towards them when they're still living in the '50s and '60s, thinking they can continue to reject the Durand Line and ferment terror against them.

- Pashtunistan thingy was a mistake to begin with and Dawood shouldn't have started that in the first place.

- I agree Afghans shouldn't complain about the 80s the same that Pakistanis should stop complaining about the 1947 Afghan vote.

I for one don't complain about the 80s what I complain about the Pakistani establishment policies of today, Mullah Mansoor carrying Pakistani passport and being killed in Pakistan is not the 80s episode but just couple days old.

Makes sense?

/Peace

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I think you have answered your own position, which is that you used Afghan Jihad as a pretext to save your own skin which is fine because it was in your interest and we are unlucky to begin with and idiots at the same time because we were used but the reason that I posted this was that before some of the folks here in PDF moan about refugees remember that architect of Jihad aka Zia is saying that we did to save Pakistan and the side effects of that is refugees so stop complaining about refugees or kalashnikov culture because it price that you guys were willing to pay.

Of course refugees were used as foot soldiers not only in Afghanistan but also in Kashmir adventure as well.

So in summary what I am trying to say that there are no white pigeons here, the public in Pakistan may have been hospitable but the establishment did all this not because Afghans are brothers but because they were tools.

/Peace

You were used??

So my friend you are telling me, you enjoy being steam rolled and being occupied by foreign powers? May be that is the case and we have always misunderstood the legendary Afghan will to resist foreign occupation. Perhaps thats the real mistake of Pakistani "establishment" not to understand the real Afghan psyche! may be you belong to the northern Afghanistan which has rolled the red carpet for the new foreign occupier in the shape of America.

Its a simple case of "shared" security and interests that has existed between Pakistan and Afghanistan. No one used anyone.

But when some individuals or certain group of people started to take the foreign occupiers as their savior against their own people, then this type of random ideas and theories started to make sense for them.

Lets keep the refugees bit separate from this discussion, and remember that Pakistani "establishment" and nation are one. There is no iota of difference in opinion in any matter what so ever.

 

[Shapur]

If we wanted we wouldn't have let a single afghani on our soil if we were the enemy . As it turns out half of your country came here along with their drug , Chars and gun culture and changed the fabric of Pakistani society forever . Before the afghan civilian invasion apart from KPK very less areas had drug or gun culture . Name me one country which has hosted refugees for more than 3 decades ?

Am saying this because we extended this hospitality to a country who considers us as their Enemy .

Chars , Naswar and guns were common place in Pashtun heartlands even before so called Afghan Jihad period. The gun market of Dara Adamkhel predates Afghan Jihad by decades. There is nothing wrong with owning guns to protect yourself in places where there is no government control.

If we wanted we wouldn't have let a single afghani on our soil if we were the enemy . As it turns out half of your country came here along with their drug , Chars and gun culture and changed the fabric of Pakistani society forever . Before the afghan civilian invasion apart from KPK very less areas had drug or gun culture . Name me one country which has hosted refugees for more than 3 decades ?

Am saying this because we extended this hospitality to a country who considers us as their Enemy .

 

[Max]

He didnt done anything wrong.. our interests were mutual at that time and we did great... now we dont have anything mutual between us.. you can take your refugee back..

 

[pak-marine]

only if he was still alive to witness how his jihad has caused mayhem murder and unstability in Pakistan for decades

 

[Khan_21]

Chars , Naswar and guns were common place in Pashtun heartlands even before so called Afghan Jihad period. The gun market of Dara Adamkhel predates Afghan Jihad by decades. There is nothing wrong with owning guns to protect yourself in places where there is no government control.

Yeap that's what I said . Apart from tribal belt very few areas had this culture pre 80's After 79 this cancer had spread to all over Pakistan . Not only that it increased the amount of crimes and slums here .

 

[Max]

only if he was still alive to witness how his jihad has caused mayhem murder and unstability in Pakistan for decades

Did he asked other Generals, Army, Benazir, Nawaz, Musharraf Zardari from his grave to not curb that menace? blame all for this shit along with ZA bhutto who in first place invited Jihadis in Pakistan.. he did what was best in interest of Pakistan at that time..

 

[pak-marine]

Did he stopped other Generals, Army, Benazir, Nawaz, Musharraf Zardari from his grave to curb that menace? blame all for this shit along with ZA bhutto who in first place invited Jihadis in Pakistan.. he did what was best in interest of Pakistan at that time..

ZA Bhutto although charashmatic but was just Another foolish imbalanced idiot who messed it all up ,,,, however the difference btw these two is Zia was pure evil whilst Bhutto was a fool

 

[Khan_21]

I think you have answered your own position, which is that you used Afghan Jihad as a pretext to save your own skin which is fine because it was in your interest and we are unlucky to begin with and idiots at the same time because we were used but the reason that I posted this was that before some of the folks here in PDF moan about refugees remember that architect of Jihad aka Zia is saying that we did to save Pakistan and the side effects of that is refugees so stop complaining about refugees or kalashnikov culture because it price that you guys were willing to pay.

Of course refugees were used as foot soldiers not only in Afghanistan but also in Kashmir adventure as well.

So in summary what I am trying to say that there are no white pigeons here, the public in Pakistan may have been hospitable but the establishment did all this not because Afghans are brothers but because they were tools.

/Peace



- Pashtunistan thingy was a mistake to begin with and Dawood shouldn't have started that in the first place.

- I agree Afghans shouldn't complain about the 80s the same that Pakistanis should stop complaining about the 1947 Afghan vote.

I for one don't complain about the 80s what I complain about the Pakistani establishment policies of today, Mullah Mansoor carrying Pakistani passport and being killed in Pakistan is not the 80s episode but just couple days old.

Makes sense?

/Peace

And you think Afghanistan would have let go of Pakistan if we were weak today as we were in 47 ? Afghanistan tried its level best to instigate problems in Pakistan because we were a new nation back then . Since 60's the roles got reversed you went into stone age and we went on to become a big regional power so now you are being a nice child all of a sudden and expect Pakistan to forget everything ?

 

[Max]

ZA Bhutto although charashmatic but was just Another foolish imbalanced idiot who messed it all up ,,,, however the difference btw these two is Zia was pure evil whilst Bhutto was a fool

as far as i know Pakistan grow more in Zia era then democratic dictator's.. and what about others? did Zia stopped them from his grave? did Zia asked them to not kill terrorist, extremists? Mush, BB, Nawaz are cute kidz? other Generals have no responsibility? only zia is evil?

 

[Danish saleem]

Post that video as well in which Musharaf defending US operations in Afghanistan.

WE are still a colony of USA.

 

[A-Team]

And you think Afghanistan would have let go of Pakistan if we were weak today as we were in 47 ? Afghanistan tried its level best to instigate problems in Pakistan because we were a new nation back then . Since 60's the roles got reversed you went into stone age and we went on to become a big regional power so now you are being a nice child all of a sudden and expect Pakistan to forget everything ?

Flawed logic! Zero sum games has no winners, so by that logic next time Afghanistan has the upper hand then we make you suffer, I for one see a different alternative which is pan regional development a model like Europe where we will win.

 

[Khan_21]

Flawed logic! Zero sum games has no winners, so by that logic next time Afghanistan has the upper hand then we make you suffer, I for one see a different alternative which is pan regional development a model like Europe where we will win.

First I don't ever see Afghanistan taking the upper hand against Pakistan as that would require a miracle . Afghanistan has to become stable first which i don't see that happening in 10-15 years . The only sufferer in today's time is Afghanistan . Pakistan , India , Bangladesh , Srilanka everyone is growing and developing very fast . Out of these India and Pakistan have the added bonus of being big regional powers . Afghanistan on the other hand had it's GDP reduced from $ 20 billion to $ 17 billion and according to IMF figures the economy will keep on shrinking in future. So who's loss is this ? Only Afghanistan's . Every country in the region is developing fast except Afghanistan who's getting poorer and worse day by day .

The ethnicities in Afghanistan don't go along with each other . Afghanistan recently was the second most corrupt country in the world. That surely isn't anyone's fault is it ? If you guys quit your tribal mentality 50 % of your problems will be solved today . Most of the problems in Afghanistan are because of afghani's themselves . I would like to know what is afghanistan doing to rectify that ? .

I would certainly like the european regional development model but for that Afghanistan Atleast has to be anywhere near its neighbouring countries . The Gap between Afghanistan and its neighbours is around 50 years . American pumped in $ 110 billion dollars . More than the martial plan in world war 2 and i still cannot see any difference in infrastructure , society or the outlook of the cities as a whole because your incompetent leaders/warlords ate all that money. It's time for you guys to sit down and think that the problem lies in the Afghan tribal psyche .

Just curious have you been to Pakistan ?

 

[A-Team]

First I don't ever see Afghanistan taking the upper hand against Pakistan as that would require a miracle . Afghanistan has to become stable first which i don't see that happening in 10-15 years . The only sufferer in today's time is Afghanistan . Pakistan , India , Bangladesh , Srilanka everyone is growing and developing very fast . Out of these India and Pakistan have the added bonus of being big regional powers . Afghanistan on the other hand had it's GDP reduced from $ 20 billion to $ 17 billion and according to IMF figures the economy will keep on shrinking in future. So who's loss is this ? Only Afghanistan's . Every country in the region is developing fast except Afghanistan who's getting poorer and worse day by day .

The ethnicities in Afghanistan don't go along with each other . Afghanistan recently was the second most corrupt country in the world. That surely isn't anyone's fault is it ? If you guys quit your tribal mentality 50 % of your problems will be solved today . Most of the problems in Afghanistan are because of afghani's themselves . I would like to know what is afghanistan doing to rectify that ? .

I would certainly like the european regional development model but for that Afghanistan Atleast has to be anywhere near its neighbouring countries . The Gap between Afghanistan and its neighbours is around 50 years . American pumped in $ 110 billion dollars . More than the martial plan in world war 2 and i still cannot see any difference in infrastructure , society or the outlook of the cities as a whole because your incompetent leaders/warlords ate all that money. It's time for you guys to sit down and think that the problem lies in the Afghan tribal psyche .

Just curious have you been to Pakistan ?

Nations rise and fall all the time ( natural progression) , Afghanistan has been here for 5000 years and wont fragment, while Pakistan lost half of herself just being less than 100 years old.

Looking back post 2001 I see Afghanistan progressing forward with all the crap being thrown at it, but can you genuinely feel that Pakistan of 1990s wasn't better than Pakistan of today?

That being said I actually want Pakistan to succeed because a Afghanistan can only succeed when the neighbourhood is successful.

More later... on.

 

[Khan_21]

Nations rise and fall all the time ( natural progression) , Afghanistan has been here for 5000 years and wont fragment, while Pakistan lost half of herself just being less than 100 years old.

Looking back post 2001 I see Afghanistan progressing forward with all the crap being thrown at it, but can you genuinely feel that Pakistan of 1990s wasn't better than Pakistan of today?

That being said I actually want Pakistan to succeed because a Afghanistan can only succeed when the neighbourhood is successful.

More later... on.

Bangladesh was never Pakistan to begin with and when you have an enemy separating the two countries this was bound to happen one way or another. That made PK more stronger and integrated .

Pakistan in 2016 is certainly better than 90's . While we were much safer back then , we are much better off economically now , we have less poverty , better infrastructure , better economic growth , stronger military , world class universities and we are an established regional power by now .

I for one want Afghanistan to get stable fast because i have to visit kabul next year for my friends wedding . Have to convince my parents