Florida Pulse gay club attacked in Orlando - 50 dead and 53 injured

[Falcon29]

@Clutch

By the way bro, even though I'm not Muslim I still respect you as a person and treat just like everyone else. I hope you and others look into my arguments, you really need to have critical thinking to approach this. Now what religion will also do, is make some Muslims think God will do his part and solve social issues, he won't. What's happening now is worrying the general mainstream in the US, but also around the world. Media is worried, because they think Trump is white nationalist who will do harm to Muslims, Jews and other minorities. Hence this incident is actually worrying them, they don't want huge backlash, because it will benefit him, but also they believe it will lead to a smooth ride into 'fascism' and disorder that could cause trembles across the world. And you don't want to rely on a God in that case. It will not go well.

Who says you need religion to hate? The only reason it is more prominent is because of external funding from outside elements to mercenaries that randomly yell Allah hu Akbar. After a while the people will just kill each other for revenge. It's called divide and rule. Same thing that's trying to succeed in Pakistan.

I'm not talking about Muslims only, I'm speaking of all three groups. And not about 'mercenaries' or anything. You don't need to kill anyone to hate anyone. Christians, Jews and Muslims don't need to kill each other, but they still hold ill feelings towards each other, besides the younger very secular ones that are enjoying life.

Again, your entire post has YET to provide proof for your claim. Your eloquent rant aside, WHERE IS THE QUOTED REFERENCE OR THE LIKE. I am not here to defend the bible since that is the job of the Christian, I asked you for a reference which you so far have avoided and instead are on a needless tirade to fill up a post with meaningless words.

Find the reference for your claim, or Ill keep your tirade off this thread.

Is this a joke? First thing you need to do, read the Story of Lot in the Quran, if that doesn't make it clear, then we will move on to Hadith. Here is the story first(I'm not singling out Muslims, all Abrahamic religions endorse this but they are in denial):

“And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?

81. ‘Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins).’

82. And the answer of his people was only that they said: ‘Drive them out of your town, these are indeed men who want to be pure (from sins)!’

83. Then We saved him and his family, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind (in the torment).

84. And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). Then see what was the end of the Mujrimoon (criminals, polytheists and sinners)”

....

If God himself mass executed this gay tribe, I'm not sure what more evidence do Christians, Jews and Muslims need. Or was that an isolated incident or metaphorical? To say the Abrahamic God isn't pro-gay, is an understatement, to say the least.
....

[al-A’raaf 7:80-84]

al-Tirmidhi (1456), Abu Dawood (4462)and Ibn Maajah (2561) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

Ahmad (2915) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “May Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot, may Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot,” three times. This was classed as hasan by Shu’ayb al-Arna’oot in Tahqeeq al-Musnad.

The Sahaabah were unanimously agreed on the execution of homosexuals, but they differed as to how they were to be executed. Some of them were of the view that they should be burned with fire, which was the view of ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) and also of Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him), as we shall see below. And some of them thought that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. This was the view of Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him).

Some of them thought that they should be stoned to death, which was narrated from both ‘Ali and Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with them).

After the Sahaabah, the fuqaha’ differed concerning the matter. Some of them said that the homosexual should be executed no matter what his situation, whether he is married or not.

.............

https://islamqa.info/en/38622

....
....

I don't see why I need to keep referencing evidence to someone who claims to be a practicing Muslim, and should know what his Islamic Law consist of. Either you know too little, or you do the 'logical route' I explained in my earlier posts that Christians and Jews also resort to.

This shouldn't even be an argument, by the way, Islam originated in Saudi Arabia and Saudi Arabians are home to the schools of thought, which have already established everything about the religion. You don't know better than them, you can try making it something you want to, but that's not what Abrahamic religion is meant for. It's a full package given to humans by means of a messenger that is not to be altered and contains all guidelines for society.

 

[American Pakistani]

Not only that, but America is also not a Islamic country. Muslims didn't found America, therefore what legitimacy do these people think they have that they can implement their interpretation of religious laws in a non-Muslim country?? Isn't that in itself against Islam? No one is forcing these people to go to a gay bar. Just live and let live or move back to wherever you came from if you can't help the urge to impose your religious laws on others.

Agreed.

If one does not appreciate American value and have problems with American culture, they should not immigrate. Or if their parents had immigrated but they have a problem then they should pack and leave.

These m0r0ns are shame for majority peaceful muslims.

 

[Anubis]

A more sensible approach would be to ban those who are prone to extremist ideologies from entering the country. Why should Americans change their centuries old constitution because some recent son of an immigrant wants to kill in the name of his religion? Does that make any sense?

It does.....but then again holding a religious test before you let someone enter is not constitutional either....and most of these domestic terrorists are radicalized here...this guy was born here...how do you stop that?

 

[WaLeEdK2]

@Clutch

By the way bro, even though I'm not Muslim I still respect you as a person and treat just like everyone else. I hope you and others look into my arguments, you really need to have critical thinking to approach this. Now what religion will also do, is make some Muslims think God will do his part and solve social issues, he won't. What's happening now is worrying the general mainstream in the US, but also around the world. Media is worried, because they think Trump is white nationalist who will do harm to Muslims, Jews and other minorities. Hence this incident is actually worrying them, they don't want huge backlash, because it will benefit him, but also they believe it will lead to a smooth ride into 'fascism' and disorder that could cause trembles across the world. And you don't want to rely on a God in that case. It will not go well.



I'm not talking about Muslims only, I'm speaking of all three groups. And not about 'mercenaries' or anything. You don't need to kill anyone to hate anyone. Christians, Jews and Muslims don't need to kill each other, but they still hold ill feelings towards each other, besides the younger very secular ones that are enjoying life.



Is this a joke? First thing you need to do, read the Story of Lot in the Quran, if that doesn't make it clear, then we will move on to Hadith. Here is the story first(I'm not singling out Muslims, all Abrahamic religions endorse this but they are in denial):

“And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?

81. ‘Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins).’

82. And the answer of his people was only that they said: ‘Drive them out of your town, these are indeed men who want to be pure (from sins)!’

83. Then We saved him and his family, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind (in the torment).

84. And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). Then see what was the end of the Mujrimoon (criminals, polytheists and sinners)”

[al-A’raaf 7:80-84]

al-Tirmidhi (1456), Abu Dawood (4462)and Ibn Maajah (2561) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

Ahmad (2915) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “May Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot, may Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot,” three times. This was classed as hasan by Shu’ayb al-Arna’oot in Tahqeeq al-Musnad.

The Sahaabah were unanimously agreed on the execution of homosexuals, but they differed as to how they were to be executed. Some of them were of the view that they should be burned with fire, which was the view of ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) and also of Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him), as we shall see below. And some of them thought that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. This was the view of Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him).

Some of them thought that they should be stoned to death, which was narrated from both ‘Ali and Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with them).

After the Sahaabah, the fuqaha’ differed concerning the matter. Some of them said that the homosexual should be executed no matter what his situation, whether he is married or not.

.............

https://islamqa.info/en/38622

....
....

Yes the secular ones are only enjoying their life. I know back home MANY religious people in Pakistan that are enjoying their lives and living side by side with Christians. Muslims need to be properly educated on Islam (sad to say the state we are in). There have been burning of churches and what not yet the Quran says to protect them. And people would still blame Islam.

 

[A.M.]

Here is what we know so far:

- 29 year old security guard who was trained with assault weapons.

- Married and divorced once. Was married to azbekhnistani women currently I believe. Divorced because of domestic abuse.

- arrived at nightclub at 2am. Called 911 beforehand to pledge allegiance to ISIS.

- negotiated with police in the middle. SWAT team entered the club around 5 and killed him.

- attacker was on FBI watch list twice in the past but they didn't have enough information to take action.

- he attacked using AR rifle and handgun.

Not good news for liberal Muslims living in the US. One can cite all the verses from the Quran but the fact is this, you made a choice to live in the US. If you have a problem with the open minded nature of the US culture and prefer to live under a more restrictive society, all you have to do is pack your bags and GTFO.

I'm sick and tired of these lunatics defining what the future for the rest of us will look like.

 

[Desert Fox]

It does.....but then again holding a religious test before you let someone enter is not constitutional either....and most of these domestic terrorists are radicalized here...this guy was born here...how do you stop that?

You have a point. That is the issue and no one has the answer. The Muslims of the West have now become a fifth column. Perhaps they will monitor us more and even strip us of certain rights. Worst case scenario will be large camps if things really get out of hand. Anything is possible with the way things are going. It's not the first time potential fifth column groups were targeted and put in camps in American history (see civil war and WW2).

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Here is what we know so far:

- 29 year old security guard who was trained with assault weapons.

- Married and divorced once. Was married to azbekhnistani women currently I believe. Divorced because of domestic abuse.

- arrived at nightclub at 2am. Called 911 beforehand to pledge allegiance to ISIS.

- negotiated with police in the middle. SWAT team entered the club around 5 and killed him.

- attacker was on FBI watch list twice in the past but they didn't have enough information to take action.

- he attacked using AR rifle and handgun.

Not good news for liberal Muslims living in the US. One can cite all the verses from the Quran but the fact is this, you made a choice to live in the US. If you have a problem with the open minded nature of the US culture and prefer to live under a more restrictive society, all you have to do is pack your bags and GTFO.

I'm sick and tired of these lunatics defining what the future for the rest of us will look like.

I wonder where he got the AR from if he was on the FBI watch list.

 

[A.M.]

I wonder where he got the AR from if he was on the FBI watch list.

He had an advanced firearm license due to his profession. FBI doesn't so anything unless they have credible threat which, they apparently, didn't have.

 

[Falcon29]

Yes the secular ones are only enjoying their life. I know back home MANY religious people in Pakistan that are enjoying their lives and living side by side with Christians. Muslims need to be properly educated on Islam (sad to say the state we are in). There have been burning of churches and what not yet the Quran says to protect them. And people would still blame Islam.

Muslims don't need Islam. I don't know why you're so adamant in insisting that. Christians and Jews don't need Christianity, but they still identify with those religions, due to material, societal and personal benefits those religions bring. If you want an example, look at the Jewish people. They know their religion is man-made, but they need to make claims to Israel. They also need it to influence the followers of Christianity. They also need it to make for a distinct heritage. Those are just some examples. I don't agree with this approach, and I would prefer there is no religion at all. Since I'm well informed, able to critically think and realize that people know religion is man made but use it to their benefit, overwhelmingly in negative ways.

I don't agree about singling out Muslims and attacking them, I made that clear in my long post in this thread. It seems people are simply not able to do basic comprehension, or they ignore the legitimate points I made. In short, I said Muslims are singled out in attacks on religion, because the other two religions have been dumbed down into something they never were, which gives them credibility to attack Islam.

 

[Desert Fox]

I am appalled at the senseless act of terrorism against the LGBT.

My deepest sympathy to the family and friends of the victims.


It’s a good day for the freaking racist demagogue and his supporters, and he is taking full advantage of the tragedy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/742019961946791939

https://twitter.com/x/status/742034549232766976

https://twitter.com/x/status/742053354189299712

People like you aren't helping. For once take that leftist lens of your eyes and see things for what they are. Why is it that you label any sane voice as "racist" for speaking facts? It's people like you who are allowing this defaming of Muslims to take place. If you refuse to support those who recognize and speak out against this threat then you are contributing to the bad image of Muslims.

The sooner Donald Trump becomes POTUS the better for all Americans, including American Muslims.

 

[Nilgiri]

RIP.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Muslims don't need Islam. I don't know why you're so adamant in insisting that. Christians and Jews don't need Christianity, but they still identify with those religions, due to material, societal and personal benefits those religions bring. If you want an example, look at the Jewish people. They know their religion is man-made, but they need to make claims to Israel. They also need it to influence the followers of Christianity. They also need it to make for a distinct heritage. Those are just some examples. I don't agree with this approach, and I would prefer there is no religion at all. Since I'm well informed, able to critically think and realize that people know religion is man made but use it to their benefit, overwhelmingly in negative ways.

I don't agree about singling out Muslims and attacking them, I made that clear in my long post in this thread. It seems people are simply not able to do basic comprehension, or they ignore the legitimate points I made. In short, I said Muslims are singled out in attacks on religion, because the other two religions have been dumbed down into something they never were, which gives them credibility to attack Islam.

Muslims that don't care don't need Islam. They just call themselves Muslims to feel they belong to something, which is a problem in the contemporary world. However, for the ones that do care they need it. For example, Pakistan needs it. Islam hasn't arrived yet. Where are the punishments for corruption, for riba. Where's proper Islamic teachings about living harmoniously with Jews and Christians? Many great patriots such as Hamid Gul and Dr. Israr Ahmed have have stressed this fact. Zia claimed to bring Islam but just put on a mask to fool the nation.

 

[SQ8]

Is this a joke? First thing you need to do, read the Story of Lot in the Quran, if that doesn't make it clear, then we will move on to Hadith. Here is the story first(I'm not singling out Muslims, all Abrahamic religions endorse this but they are in denial):

“And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?

81. ‘Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins).’

82. And the answer of his people was only that they said: ‘Drive them out of your town, these are indeed men who want to be pure (from sins)!’

83. Then We saved him and his family, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind (in the torment).

84. And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). Then see what was the end of the Mujrimoon (criminals, polytheists and sinners)”

....

If God himself mass executed this gay tribe, I'm not sure what more evidence do Christians, Jews and Muslims need. Or was that an isolated incident or metaphorical? To say the Abrahamic God isn't pro-gay, is an understatement, to say the least.
....

[al-A’raaf 7:80-84]

al-Tirmidhi (1456), Abu Dawood (4462)and Ibn Maajah (2561) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

Ahmad (2915) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “May Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot, may Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot,” three times. This was classed as hasan by Shu’ayb al-Arna’oot in Tahqeeq al-Musnad.

The Sahaabah were unanimously agreed on the execution of homosexuals, but they differed as to how they were to be executed. Some of them were of the view that they should be burned with fire, which was the view of ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) and also of Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him), as we shall see below. And some of them thought that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. This was the view of Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him).

Some of them thought that they should be stoned to death, which was narrated from both ‘Ali and Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with them).

After the Sahaabah, the fuqaha’ differed concerning the matter. Some of them said that the homosexual should be executed no matter what his situation, whether he is married or not.

.............

https://islamqa.info/en/38622

....
....

Again, your venting on is "this a joke" is your own frustration in trying to get people to convert to your view based on just your word for it.


Thank you for actually putting something from a site which you copy pasted. First, a non copy paster from a site would have referenced the sections of the Quran where it comes from.. I dont know Islam qa and dont care for it. Anyone who needs to go to Islamqa.com for answers clearly has little interest in investigating the religion and more into finding more rhetoric to dump.

Lets start with Surah Ar-raaf, which briefly talks of the lustful desires of the people of Sodom. The condemnation is for lust and seeking it. It is also Lust which drives such acts in many gay communities.. and also in certain truck stops and madressas as well.

Yet, the penance for this is being given by god and Lut is being asked to leave the place where this is happening. I dont see any proof in whatever you copy pasted based on the Quran that Muslims are supposed to kill gays.

Lets go with the Hadiath then, first.. all of them are based on weak or poorly referenced hadiath and in my view the statement in red HAS no backing except whoever wrote islamqa and I have no trust on them. That leaves the green bit referring to a hadiath which has not been reported in Sahih Bukhari which is taken as the most authoritative source for Hadiath. Then the source of the supporting of the Hadiath is also plainly glazed over as Sahih by a scholar with whom islamqa gives little reference to..

So while you may have luck with convincing non-muslims or those muslims that dont research their religion, but I am not buying any of your supposed rhetoric regarding any religious commandment given ..ESPECIALLY by the Quran and via the Prophet to kill Homosexuals.

 

[Cherokee]

@Oscar did you delete my post ?

 

[livingdead]

I thought its a rightwing christian nutjob when I heard the news.