Dialogue Pakistan,India And Afghanistan - 30 october 2014 (ARY News)

[Samandri]

I have a large family across the border, I come from a very large tribe and i can assure you that Afghans carry more hatred towards Indians then Pakistanis do, but pointless discussing it her one has to experience it to believe it.

In Pakistan mostly east of the Indus people dont consider you as an enemy as they happily mingle with you, it's us who are west of the Indus that consider you an enemy and that goes back to beginning of time.

So you see same can't be said for everyone in Pakistan can it?.

Hello Gadoonwal.

 

[Samandri]

Ghaffar Khan ring a bell? Afghanistan has a soft spot for India from Bollywood to our products which are well sought after. You can not deny we have historical and cultural ties with the country can you?

Door ke dhol suhavane lagte hain. Hindu and Afghan is incompatible by nature and temperament, they are merely working on the formula "enemy of my enemy is my friend". Things could have been different if they were neighbors. Even within Pakistan, Pashtuns find themselves very incompatible with Urduspeaking mohajirs of Karachi from every angle (even though they are muslims), they migrated from the indian provinces of U.P, Bihar and Delhi. Their hindu counter-parts in respective provinces of india, would be more incompatible.

 

[INDIC]

There are some links between Pashtun and Indian society I would like to share. Shahrukh Khan is a Pashtun and has family links in Peshawar. The same is with many people with the surname Khan. That is because there has constantly been a push of Pashtuns into Hind, though usually these Pashtuns formed an elite at that time. Lodhis, Suris, Durranis, Khiljis (Ghilzai is an expert on this tribe) all ruled that land once and to supplement their rule they brought other pashtuns. During the rule of Sher Shah Suri the Pashtuns were forced to have only one and only one profession, either to lead or to be in the military. He visualized Pashtuns as the warriors they were and employed many in his army.

Even though the Mughals were known as sworn enemies, especially by ultra nationalists they employed many soldiers who were of Persian or Pashtun descent. Mahabbat Khan is one such man and others are the governors he made for Bengal.

Did you ever know that a person can be Urdu speaker (I hate that term but again because urdu speakers call themselves that because we are dumb people...) and Pashtun at the same time. Meet the Rohilla Pashtuns. They lived in the Indus and gradually developed identity as Urdu speakers because they lost the gift of Pashto (unfortunate). When partition occurred many left my province UP and came to live in Karachi. My people moved after partition but thats a different tangent.

Anyway so they then adopted the identity of urdu speakers because they did not know Pashto. I guess they just identified more with people who had made a bad decision to call themselves urdu speakers or muhajirs but in any case that is their story.

Many Yousufzai's, Dilazaks, Niazis (at that time they knew pashto rather than seraiki and punjabi) too were in what is now India, particularly UP, though we hold it is our territory:

A yousufzai turned muhajir is a man named Saulat Mirza target killer and mass murderer for the MQM.

There is a geographical location named RohillaKhand in UP. Fatehpur has a huge population of Pashtuns.
Ever heard of people with Khan in their surname? Chances are they are Pashtuns. Oh yes and I forgot the Pataudi's. Saif Ali Khan is from the pathan family of Pataudi nawabs.

However I will also say that ideologically the two people differ. Abdul Ghaffar Khan's ideology did not have much support in Pakistan or Pakhtunkhwa. Even the election that was favorable towards the congress was said to have been rigged.

When Nehru came to Frontier regions or Pakhtunkhwa he was greeted by a mob throwing stones.

@ghilzai, its good to see you again. Lets hope I get my account back so we can have more fruitful discussions. Ethnicity is only a threat when used against the state fabric. Otherwise it deserves to be respected and made to flower into a beautiful amalgamation. It is the Talpurs, Mir Chakar's, Allama Iqbal, Gujjars, Durranis all that make us Pakistanis and that includes our culture becase we are diverse and the culture of each ethnic group brings with it something exotic.

@haviZsultan Its true that many people in India has Pashtun ancestry, but historically Pashtuns were never related to Indians or even Eastern Pakistanis in Punjab or Sindh.

 

[INDIC]

Door ke dhol suhavane lagte hain. Hindu and Afghan is incompatible by nature and temperament, they are merely working on the formula "enemy of my enemy is my friend". Things could have been different if they were neighbors. Even within Pakistan, Pashtuns find themselves very incompatible with Urduspeaking mohajirs of Karachi from every angle (even though they are muslims), they migrated from the indian provinces of U.P, Bihar and Delhi. Their hindu counter-parts in respective provinces of india, would be more incompatible.

Unlike Punjabis or Sindhis, Pashtun society hardly have/had Hindus, so historically there was no Hindu-Muslim angles to their society as Pashtun society was predominantly Muslim unlike mix of Hindu-Muslim-Sikhs among Punjabis and Sindhis. So, I don't think you are making fair comparison.

 

[Samandri]

@haviZsultan Its true that many people in India has Pashtun ancestry, but historically Pashtuns were never related to Indians or even Eastern Pakistanis in Punjab or Sindh.

But their trade, migration was by and large directed towards India. Their most ancient abodes Koh e suliman range was in contact with sindh while FATA was adjacent to Gandhara which was extension of Punjab at that time..

 

[INDIC]

But their trade, migration was by and large directed towards India. Their most ancient abodes Koh e suliman range was in contact with sindh while FATA was adjacent to Gandhara which was extension of Punjab at that time..

Having a contact and being the part of society is different. The British could have applied the historical fissure of Hindus and Muslims on Punjab, Sindh, UP-Bihar people but since Pashtuns were predominantly they came with different tactics to keep Pashtuns under control. Do you really think Jinnah could have convinced Pashtuns to vote for him because of hypothetical threat from Hindus with non-existent Hindus in Pashtun society. Its only after the violence broke out, that Pashtuns started to have a soft corner for Pakistan movement.

 

[OrionHunter]

Pak-Afg issue can only be solved by these two countries alone. Indian trying to meddle in these issues is going to back fire. Pakistan learned the tricks of interfering in it neighbours affairs from India. It was India which supported cross border terrorism in East Pakistan. When Pakistanis do it its different? India should stay away from Afghanistan & Pakistan issue. Because India is not ready to play any positive role. For Indian government Afghanistan is nothing but a useful client used to support anti Pakistan elements in Afghanistan.

I completely differ with your 'analysis'.

Firstly, your contention that India supported 'cross border terrorism' in East Pakistan is a figment of your wild imagination. The Mukti Bahini weren't terrorists but freedom fighters who were fighting against the horrors and atrocities committed on the people of Bangladesh. Read the Hamoodur-Rahman Commission Report headed by then Chief Justice of Pakistan, Hamoodur Rahman which I'm sure you haven't bothered to read. Here it is: Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report

Secondly, what is Pakistan's locus standi on whether India should stay away from Afghanistan's affairs or not? Afghanistan is a sovereign country and not a lackey state of Pakistan. They will take their own decisions and are free to select their friends and foes. India has provided billion of dollars in aid and the majority of Afghans prefer Indians to Pakistanis whom they have no love lost for. What has Pakistan given Afghanistan? The Taliban. That's what!

Make it a habit to read and do some research before shooting balloons in the air.

 

[Jaanbaz]

I completely differ with your 'analysis'.

Firstly, your contention that India supported 'cross border terrorism' in East Pakistan is a figment of your wild imagination. The Mukti Bahini weren't terrorists but freedom fighters who were fighting against the horrors and atrocities committed on the people of Bangladesh. Read the Hamoodur-Rahman Commission Report headed by then Chief Justice of Pakistan, Hamoodur Rahman which I'm sure you haven't bothered to read. Here it is: Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report

Secondly, what is Pakistan's locus standi on whether India should stay away from Afghanistan's affairs or not? Afghanistan is a sovereign country and not a lackey state of Pakistan. They will take their own decisions and are free to select their friends and foes. India has provided billion of dollars in aid and the majority of Afghans prefer Indians to Pakistanis whom they have no love lost for. What has Pakistan given Afghanistan? The Taliban. That's what!

Make it a habit to read and do some research before shooting balloons in the air.

Cross border terrorism is terrorism. This is the same logic you apply to Pakistan, why the double standard mate?
Pakistan is also aware of all the ''consulates'' in Afghanistan too and their purpose. Afghanistan is free to chose which friends they want but they also have to live with the fact that Pakistan is right next door, letting India use its territory to support terrorism inside Pakistan is not a good omen for Afghanistan. ISI knows and will be countering the threat very soon.

We also know Northern Alliance hate against Pakistan and their hate against poor Pushtuns.

 

[OrionHunter]

Cross border terrorism is terrorism. This is the same logic you apply to Pakistan, why the double standard mate?
Pakistan is also aware of all the ''consulates'' in Afghanistan too and their purpose. Afghanistan is free to chose which friends they want but they also have to live with the fact that Pakistan is right next door, letting India use its territory to support terrorism inside Pakistan is not a good omen for Afghanistan.

Firstly, there was no such thing as 'cross border terrorism' during the Bangladesh war unlike what you guys have been doing by sending Pakistani terrorists of the LeT/JeM variety into India. How could the Mukti Bahini terrorise their own Bangladeshis? You probably mean they terrorized the Pakistan Army which would be the correct inference.

Secondly, where's your PROOF of Indian involvement in supporting terrorism against Pakistan from Afghanistan? Pakistan hasn't produced an iota of PROOF so far! What was produced were a few packets of Indian medicines from some TTP yahoos. But then it was discovered that these medicines are legitimately imported from India by Pakistan and thus available in all your chemist shops!!! But you guys went to town brandishing this as proof of Indian involvement!!

Proof or evidence?? You have NONE! So stop tilting at windmills. Clutching at straws by arguments not borne out by facts makes one look silly.

 

[Jaanbaz]

How could the Mukti Bahini terrorise their own Bangladeshis? You probably mean they terrorized the Pakistan Army which would be the correct inference.

Mukti Bahini killed and raped Pro Pakistan Bengalis and Bihari Muslims. Hundreds of thousands of Biharis were slaughtered by Indian backed Mukti Bahini after the independence.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Secondly, where's your PROOF of Indian involvement in supporting terrorism against Pakistan from Afghanistan? Pakistan hasn't produced an iota of PROOF so far! What was produced were a few packets of Indian medicines from some TTP yahoos. But then it was discovered that these medicines are legitimately imported from India by Pakistan and thus available in all your chemist shops!!! But you guys went to town brandishing this as proof of Indian involvement!!
Proof or evidence?? You have NONE! So stop tilting at windmills. Clutching at straws by arguments not borne out by facts makes one look silly.

All in time. Just wait for the revenge from ISI

 

[OrionHunter]

Mukti Bahini killed and raped Pro Pakistan Bengalis and Bihari Muslims. Hundreds of thousands of Biharis were slaughtered by Indian backed Mukti Bahini after the independence.

Really? And you spew out this utter nonsensical tripe in spite of my asking you to read your own Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report

Or as usual with you guys, are you shying away from reading this report which was headed by your own Chief Justice on the atrocities committed by the Pak Army and its cohorts because you do not want to know the truth? Forever living in denial, what? Shake off that habit, man! It'll do you a lot of good!

Then you'll know who raped whom and who were responsible for killing millions of Bangladeshis.

 

[Rafi]

Really? And you spew out this utter nonsensical tripe in spite of my asking you to read your own Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report

Or as usual with you guys, are you shying away from reading this report which was headed by your own Chief Justice on the atrocities committed by the Pak Army and its cohorts because you do not want to know the truth? Forever living in denial, what? Shake off that habit, man! It'll do you a lot of good!

Then you'll know who raped whom and who were responsible for killing millions of Bangladeshis.

Millions lol - the Bengali indian lady - proved it was all bs.

 

[OrionHunter]

Millions lol - the Bengali indian lady - proved it was all bs.

So you would believe a stupid Bengali Indian lady than the Chief Justice of Pakistan who had a whole army of investigators and documents to help the commission arrive at the consolidated and very detailed report? This is the official report by the Government of Pakistan for crying out loud!

Man, you seem to give more credibility to Yindoo banyas whom you guys love to bash at the drop of a hat than your own people even of the level of the Chief Justice of Pakistan himself and the govt of Pakistan because that suits your lame defence!

Wake up and step into reality. Habitual denial of the truth has brought you guys to this sorry state of affairs.

 

[Rafi]

So you would believe a stupid Bengali Indian lady than the Chief Justice of Pakistan who had a whole army of investigators and documents to help the commission arrive at the consolidated and very detailed report? This is the official report by the Government of Pakistan for crying out loud!

Man, you seem to give more credibility to Yindoo banyas whom you guys love to bash at the drop of a hat than your own people even of the level of the Chief Justice of Pakistan himself and the govt of Pakistan because that suits your lame defence!

Wake up and step into reality. Habitual denial of the truth has brought you guys to this sorry state of affairs.

A Bengali lady a daughter of a famous indian politician, an academic in her own right. She is more reliable than you.