What's new

Allama Iqbal and current world created by Non Muslims

Tunnel vision

Convinced.

Honestly speaking, my Urdu is pretty poor and I still enjoy reading his poetry so much and everytime I find out a message in it. Eventhogugh, I gotta ask my maa sometimes to explain it to me or I ask her the meaning of specific a word. But still love his extra ordinary writing style and giving out the message as well.
 
. .
who is this guy and what did he do?

He is an excellent writer of urdu, and Persian language. (Mainly). He dreamt of Pakistan and later his poetry made the founder of Pakistan Sir, Jinnah to work hard to get this new state we call Pakistan today. (his poetry made people to step up and stand for their rights and fight for freedom)
There's university on his name, his poetry is so much motivational and especially for youth. There's a street in England named after him. And that's just the glimps of him. :)
 
.
He had lot of time on his hand , as things were slow so he decided to chill in his room , grab a nice tea brew and wrote Poetry

Obviously he had no problem with cash flow , so he enjoyed writing LARGE books with many chapters , if he was a normal person like us mortals he would be working in jobs and paying bills

Which obviously was an exceptional piece of work, yet it does not explain just how he contributed to society , because our society has not changed that much since 1947

Since our society has not improve that much I really question , did people not read his work , or has his work become just a mere decorative piece on the shelves of the library. Because if his work was really that great ..... would we not now be the most amazing civilization in the world
considering he defined all the flows and problems in our society and documented it well in poetry

I look at Germany , after ww2 , it was destroyed it got back to it's feet and now look where it is , do they read Jawab Sikhwa ?

What about Japan , do they teach IQBAL's poetry in school ? which is basis for business and corporation ?


If he really inspired his generation , there must be more 1 to 1 accounts which can only be covered in a PROFESSIONAL documentary

He is / was an exceptional exponent of his art , which is poetry a form of arts that people enjoy learn from and reflect upon.

But IQBAL as a person is not defined, and the problem in general with all Pakistani role models is that their lives are washed down and their lives are not examined

Most of the traditional outlets just praise a person million times , yet they do not explain his greatness , beyond a mere few notes that he wrote many books which may or may not have inspired his generation. With no source or credibility quotation to back that claim up.
 
Last edited:
.
He had lot of time on his hand , as things were slow so he decided to chill in his room , grab a nice tea brew and wrote Poetry

Which obviously was an exceptional piece of work, yet it does not explain just how he contributed to society , because our society has not changed that much since 1947

What are you talking about? Such an irony. Your username is "Azad Pakistan" and you are still questioning the person whose dream came true of a free Pakistan.


Anyways, 'Allama Iqbal made his debut in politics when he was elected as the member of Punjab's Legislative Assembly in 1926. During the elections of 1937, when Quaid-e-Azam started the reconstruction of the Muslim Leaague, Allama Iqbal stood besides him. He not only supported Quaid-e-Azam and the Muslim League wholeheartedly, but he also respected Quaid-e-Azam's point of view.'

@Khafee bro look at the argument this brother made. :(
 
.
Allama Iqbal was an obscurantist and muddle headed at best

The late Sibte-Hasan compared Iqbal’s fate to that of Hegel. The ambiguities and contradictions in Hegel’s ideas made him an inspiration both for the German rightwing (from monarchists to Fascists) and the European far-left (Marxists).
Equipped with a deep study and strong command of philosophy, Iqbal wrote and spoke when the colonial yoke was still upon us but the Indian people were experiencing a political and social reawakening. He wrote with the confidence of a man who believed in the future of his people and his religion. But what kind of future and what kind (interpretation) of religion?
Imagine Fichte, Nietzsche, Bergson, Whitehead, Kant, Hegel, Marx, Mussolini, Lenin, Ahmed Sarhindi, Ibn Arabi, Ghazali, Ashari and Rumi thrown together (but not fused into one) in the mind of a highly romantic (in the very strong sense of being anti-reason) and poetic genius with a religious and revivalist zeal and scholastic penchant, and what do you get? A formidable mountain of metaphysical confusion, on top of which sit the most reactionary attitude and ideas side by side with the most progressive insights.
What Iqbal offers us, then, is a bottomless bag of intellectual contradictions. From it you can try and take out pluralism and freedom of thought if you wish or you can search the bag for, and find without much effort, the kind of tribal religion upheld by Mullah Omar. With Sibte-Hasan we can see Iqbal as the Hegel of Islam who inspires us in our quest for freedom, democracy and social justice, if only we could “remove the husk from the kernel”, or with Mubarak Ali and Ali Abbas Jalalpuri we can see him as an anti-reason revivalist whose rationalism consisted in a reactionary scholasticism that sought to close our minds to scientific thinking and true philosophy.
Be that is it may, I will only briefly describe my impression of one of the aspects of Iqbal’s fifth lecture – The Spirit of Muslim Culture – in his Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam. It is not possible here to deal fully with the whole structure and the entire content of the lecture, highly interesting as it is in the beginning where Iqbal makes a startling effort to carve out a philosophically appealing definition of prophethood, revelation and mystical experience to make the idea of “prophetic consciousness” relevant for the modern times.
He becomes less impressive as he goes on to deduce from the Quran a theoretical approach to the scientific study of nature and rudiments of a philosophy of history, quoting some straight and simple Quranic verses out of context to justify a very tenuous line of argument.
And then comes what I feel to be the most problematic aspect of the lecture. Quite arbitrarily building a notion of the Quran’s emphasis on the “concrete” against the alleged “abstraction” of the classical Greek heritage, he makes the fantastic claim that the birth of the method of observation and experiment in the Muslim world was “due not to a compromise with Greek thought but to a prolonged intellectual warfare with it.” He actually credits the Asharite “intellectual revolt against Greek philosophy” in the Muslim world with leading to the foundation of modern science and which the West, he claims, inherited from Islam. The heroes of this ‘scientific revolution’ were the Asharites, Imam Taymiyya, Al-Ghazali to some extent, and the likes; and it is clearly implied that the those vanquished by the “true spirit of Islam” are the Mutazilites, and philosophers and scientists like Ibn Rushd and Ibn Sina.
This reactionary fiction – even if it is created by Iqbal – is a travesty of the idea of any serious and objective study of Muslim history. In his distortion of history Iqbal remains blissfully untroubled by the fact that most Muslim scientists were Mutazalite rationalists and philosophers – the school of thought whose suppression, excommunication, torture and extermination by the anti-enlightenment and anti-science Asharites and the monarchs who patronised them Iqbal has ‘euphemistically’ called “Muslim intellectual revolt against Greek philosophy.”
Iqbal does not explain why – if modern science originated in the lap of al-Ashari’s and al-Ghazali’s understanding of Islam – the scientific revolution occurred in Europe where the names of Ibn Rushd, Ibn Sina, al-Kandi, and al-Razi were venerated and their works made part of university syllabi, and not in the Arab world where they were demonised, hounded, tortured and exiled, and where their books and libraries were burnt. How many scientists did the followers of al-Ashari, al-Ghazali and Taymiyya produce? Al-Ashari triumphantly and famously denied the existence of cause and effect and thus attacked the very foundation of both scientific speculation and experiment in the Muslim world.
In this atmosphere of fear and persecution, Muslim science – or whatever was left of it – confined itself to only observation and experiments and refrained from drawing theoretical conclusions that could lead to scientific breakthroughs and pave the way for new experiments and observations. This death of free thought and enquiry Iqbal romanticises and celebrates as “Islamic science” on the basis of his “Quranic” understanding of a “dynamic universe”!
Why does Iqbal perform this intellectual sleight of hand? There can hardly be an answer other than that his rationalism, like the rationalism of any scholastic theologian, hides an anti-reason, anti-science and anti-materialist (in the philosophical sense of the word) epistemology. That is why he remains oblivious of the very materialist and scientific origin of Greek philosophy which was owned and nurtured by Muslim philosophers and scientists before the Asharite reaction struck them and before it was rediscovered and built on by the West. Iqbal does not want to reconcile Islam and science, he wants to Islamise science. And the first step in that direction has to be a rejection of the classical Greek philosophical heritage as a formative influence on Muslim scientists, followed by other and much more serious distortions of historical facts.
What, then, do we expect from Iqbal in terms of pluralism in thought and beliefs? I do not know, for there is a lot in the bottomless bag of Iqbalian contradictions that can be used to prove him the most open-minded genius of his and our times who was in love with unity in diversity. I have confined myself only to an aspect of his “Reconstruction” and tried to follow Sibte-Hasan’s advice – of removing the husk from the kernel.

source :
Iqbal: the husk and the kernel
Iqbal is a poet first and foremost and to know him one has to read his poetry. While poetry is an art and one has to have an artistic sense to truly understand and appreciate art. Art gives specificities to the general while philosophy abstracts the general from the specifics. Art represents that which seem to be the absolute truth in the heat of the moment. While philosophy is the least decided and the most general, art is the most decided and the most specific. It represents what appears to be the uncompromising truth from one angle in one moment. While philosophy tries to cover all angles and all times. Philosophy is completely independent from whims and feeling arisen for a moment while art is completely given to it. Therefore a non-artistic mind will always find contradictions in art. But its only the unrestrained feelings and passions of some particular moments and they can be quite different for different times.
What i want to say is that its meaningless to say that a work of art has contradictions. Art is not philosophy, its the opposite of that.
 
.
What are you talking about? Such an irony. Your username is "Azad Pakistan" and you are still questioning the person whose dream came true of a free Pakistan.


Anyways, 'Allama Iqbal made his debut in politics when he was elected as the member of Punjab's Legislative Assembly in 1926. During the elections of 1937, when Quaid-e-Azam started the reconstruction of the Muslim Leaague, Allama Iqbal stood besides him. He not only supported Quaid-e-Azam and the Muslim League wholeheartedly, but he also respected Quaid-e-Azam's point of view.'

@Khafee bro look at the argument this brother made. :(
He is a good guy. Usually makes very pertinent observations, unfortunately this is not one of those times. Sometimes making a comment based on "prima facie" can seriously dent your credibility. This is one one those times.
 
.
The hallmark of a self proclaimed intellectual is that he will try to negate established icons with his limited vision instead of first trying to understand in totality what the idea is all about. Critical thinking is not the first step.
Allama Iqbals message is actually proven, how? Look around, Pakistan's very existence is the evidence of his greatness. How many dreamers in the world get what they dreamt of?
 
.
Very interesting post. All poets are a mirage and trying to understand will take an entire lifetime. I managed to get materials after many years of find directly from the institute. As a person who studying farsi and urdu (a contemplation into eastern studies at UNISA) - i find these verdict by the original author being off the cuff. the same has been said of Khalil Gibran i.e. his philosophy is gibrish. No, it is definitely not. Farsi or Urdu poetry beauty lies in the abstract - my 2 cents are learn the actual language to understand what is written. Iqbal is not the only one who suffers from this multiple personality - it is every poet's challenge - they are not here for popular vote yet history puts them in a given place for a given purpose. Iqbal put his mark to the point of taraneh Hind and his books are living proof that he is alive. Alas, the country which was to be his ideal did not hold to the mark. He correctly narrates well that nations are formed from the dreams of poets but destroyed by politicians - no argument there.
I am very moved by Shikwah as well as Asrareh khudi. How is it possible that one finds fault with that? I find his narration in Shikwah even applicable in today's life and as a jew if i were to have read it in the 30's i too could have put myself in that subject but from a point of absolute darkness around us at the time.
Alas, the message appears to be lost again to the author of the article who has failed to see the beauty and depth in his writings to have adapted such a negative outlook; one needs to reflect within to find's one iqbal. Philosophers such as him only come in a milenia.
 
.
Very interesting post. All poets are a mirage and trying to understand will take an entire lifetime. I managed to get materials after many years of find directly from the institute. As a person who studying farsi and urdu (a contemplation into eastern studies at UNISA) - i find these verdict by the original author being off the cuff. the same has been said of Khalil Gibran i.e. his philosophy is gibrish. No, it is definitely not. Farsi or Urdu poetry beauty lies in the abstract - my 2 cents are learn the actual language to understand what is written. Iqbal is not the only one who suffers from this multiple personality - it is every poet's challenge - they are not here for popular vote yet history puts them in a given place for a given purpose. Iqbal put his mark to the point of taraneh Hind and his books are living proof that he is alive. Alas, the country which was to be his ideal did not hold to the mark. He correctly narrates well that nations are formed from the dreams of poets but destroyed by politicians - no argument there.
I am very moved by Shikwah as well as Asrareh khudi. How is it possible that one finds fault with that? I find his narration in Shikwah even applicable in today's life and as a jew if i were to have read it in the 30's i too could have put myself in that subject but from a point of absolute darkness around us at the time.
Alas, the message appears to be lost again to the author of the article who has failed to see the beauty and depth in his writings to have adapted such a negative outlook; one needs to reflect within to find's one iqbal. Philosophers such as him only come in a milenia.
It is since time immemorial people feel threatened by something that their intellect does not comprehend. The fault is not in the message but the ability to transcend your mortal limitations to realise the greatness of the thought. A mind born in materialistic surrounds cannot appreciate chivalry or charity likewise a mind born in captivity cannot appreciate the openess, freedom and vasteness. The mind curls back to confined spaces.
 
.
He had lot of time on his hand , as things were slow so he decided to chill in his room , grab a nice tea brew and wrote Poetry

Obviously he had no problem with cash flow , so he enjoyed writing LARGE books with many chapters , if he was a normal person like us mortals he would be working in jobs and paying bills

Which obviously was an exceptional piece of work, yet it does not explain just how he contributed to society , because our society has not changed that much since 1947

Since our society has not improve that much I really question , did people not read his work , or has his work become just a mere decorative piece on the shelves of the library. Because if his work was really that great ..... would we not now be the most amazing civilization in the world
considering he defined all the flows and problems in our society and documented it well in poetry

I look at Germany , after ww2 , it was destroyed it got back to it's feet and now look where it is , do they read Jawab Sikhwa ?

What about Japan , do they teach IQBAL's poetry in school ? which is basis for business and corporation ?


If he really inspired his generation , there must be more 1 to 1 accounts which can only be covered in a PROFESSIONAL documentary

He is / was an exceptional exponent of his art , which is poetry a form of arts that people enjoy learn from and reflect upon.

But IQBAL as a person is not defined, and the problem in general with all Pakistani role models is that their lives are washed down and their lives are not examined

Most of the traditional outlets just praise a person million times , yet they do not explain his greatness , beyond a mere few notes that he wrote many books which may or may not have inspired his generation. With no source or credibility quotation to back that claim up.

Understanding Iqbal is not a child play and many fail to understand him and if you are one of them then i am not surprised. If we have deep roots in history, hadith and Islamic history, then we realized that he write all these events in just two sentences with exceptional beauty in it.
 
.
Understanding Iqbal is not a child play and many fail to understand him and if you are one of them then i am not surprised. If we have deep roots in history, hadith and Islamic history, then we realized that he write all these events in just two sentences with exceptional beauty in it.
Bravo!! I couldn't have said it better myself.
 
.
Whenever i read his poetry. I ALWAYS realise something new about my self. It Always shames me. It ALways gives me a depth of own failures and uselessness. I even dropped heck lot of my useless habits after reading Just Some Part of Shikwa And Jawab-e-Shikwa. Thats who Iqbal is.


We are just ungratefull bastards, unable to appreciate and Thanks Allah for what we have. Instead we resort the Bash Such Great People, whose sacrifices we cant even begin to comprehend. Yesterday It was Jinnnah, Nw It is Iqbal, Tomorrow it will Sir Syed, and Shah Walliullah. There is no stopping this retardedness.
 
.
There are different type of people

a) Who take action , can do people (active ) Jinnah (Quid-e-Azam)
b) Those who step away from the chaos , and then find inner peace , write poetry (passive)

There is no doubt in in wonderful piece of art in his poetry, But I can't connect to Iqbal the person

"The person , the human"

And I am not bashing him , I am saying there is no initiative on grand scale to develop official biography of these folks for young generation. I read certain poetry from Iqbal , and thought it was wonderful Sikwah - Jawab -e Sikhwa , an interesting discussion. But in end was just a mere piece of art (Poetry)

Most muslims were not even educated in that time period to understand the heavy duty message in those art work

So I am interested to know how this man , became so prominent who influenced the lives of an amazing generation of Muslims during that time period

So I was interested to know how the Man Iqbal rose the rank of many other folks in ranks of Muslims and for that I wanted a grand coverage biography of his life which covers the "Tribulations of IQBAL" as a normal human not a poet only

May be our Movie makers should focus on these people and develop movies and biographies that can help us understand the personal lives of these great leaders of past
 
Last edited:
.
There are different type of people

a) Who take action , can do people (active ) Jinnah (Quid-e-Azam)
b) Those who step away from the chaos , and then find inner peace , write poetry (passive)

There is no doubt in in wonderful piece of art in his poetry, But I can't connect to Iqbal the person

"The person , the human"

And I am not bashing him , I am saying there is no initiative on grand scale to develop official biography of these folks for young generation. I read certain poetry from Iqbal , and thought it was wonderful Sikwah - Jawab -e Sikhwa , an interesting discussion. But in end was just a mere piece of art (Poetry)

Most muslims were not even educated in that time period to understand the heavy duty message in those art work

So I am interested to know how this man , became so prominent who influenced the lives of an amazing generation of Muslims during that time period

So I was interested to know how the Man Iqbal rose the rank of many other folks in ranks of Muslims and for that I wanted a grand coverage biography of his life which covers the "Tribulations of IQBAL" as a normal human not a poet only

May be our Movie makers should focus on these people and develop movies and biographies that can help us understand the personal lives of these great leaders of past
Correct... they are stilll not educated. Hence the message remains as important as before. A travesty indeed.

Understanding Iqbal is not a child play and many fail to understand him and if you are one of them then i am not surprised. If we have deep roots in history, hadith and Islamic history, then we realized that he write all these events in just two sentences with exceptional beauty in it.
absolutely. the level of urdu which has now been bastardized by the replacement of farsi words with english; the plunder on thought and language will continue. The quasi formation of Urdglish and lack of education .... i recall seeing your PM or ex Presidents open their mouth and it is all generally Urdglish.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom