Low cost ventilator - Indigenous production - Covid-19

[Dark1]

Life critical devices have to pass massive security checks and approvals , it is not a Honda civic you make a make shift part and install it

• This is not time for inventions
• This is not time for experimentation
• This is not time for high fives for University projects

This is time for , take the check book out , and order 5,000 ventilators from China
and 100,000 masks from China

Set up a emergency camp / Hospital outside the City , to collect patients outside the city zone and ensure the people are transported out to open areas

• Beds - 5,000 beds
• Fans
• AC
• Electricity Supply
• Water / Sanitation Supply

These are just logistical stuff can be done with man power

Chinese ventilator manufacturers are dependent on european and American suppliers for some parts like turbines etc.

 

[Pandora]

Just import from China , now is not time to invent shit the water has gone over the head as they say

• Time to import ambulances
• Get transport helicopters
• Transport trucks
• Fix logistical issues

All that time has passed unfortunately

The best approach is to stay at home .... eat conservatively

Planning is done 4-5 years or 20 years in advance


The level of awareness is low in Pakistan the best thing to do is run advertisement on TV
24/7 to ask people to stay inside their homes and avoid unnecessary travel

• Coronavirus Special Quarantine centers should be setup outside the city

On the contrary this is exactly the time for innovation and development at local level. Through such crisis countries have risen stronger than before not bcz they imported the shit out of it but rather developed and researched indigenous solutions. We need local capabilities to tackle this virus bcz when $hit will hit fan then no one will be coming to your aid. Contrary to popular belief we are in honeymoon period of this virus and it will get much much much worse.

 

[CrazyZ]

Many off the shelf hospital equipment is more complicated and expensive than it needs to be. I'm not sure if ventilators can be simplified to lower the costs and speed up the production but I recall a story a few years ago where a start up firm determined that most premature babies could be saved by simple heated blankets. This saved many premature babies in poorer countries where hospital level incubators was not available.

 

[sparten]

This is a very stupid thread. A Ventilator is a pump and some tubing. Its not the damn Apollo spacecraft. Yes bells and whistles of modern ventilators are complicated to make, but the device is nearly a century old on the concept.
We have plenty of pump makers in the country and motor makers who could make something which would be good enough for present purposes.

 

[ziaulislam]

I am creating this thread to discuss the idea, designs and potential way to produce low cost ventilators in Pakistan. In Pakistan there are only 2000-ish ventilators, which are not enough for current epidemic. And i am afraid masses will die because of lack of ventilators.

In its simplest form, a modern positive pressure ventilator consists of a compressible air reservoir or turbine, air and oxygen supplies, a set of valves and tubes, and a disposable or reusable "patient circuit". The air reservoir is pneumatically compressed several times a minute to deliver room-air, or in most cases, an air/oxygen mixture to the patient. If a turbine is used, the turbine pushes air through the ventilator, with a flow valve adjusting pressure to meet patient-specific parameters. When over pressure is released, the patient will exhale passively due to the lungs' elasticity, the exhaled air being released usually through a one-way valve within the patient circuit called the patient manifold. Ventilators may also be equipped with monitoring and alarm systems for patient-related parameters (e.g. pressure, volume, and flow) and ventilator function (e.g. air leakage, power failure, mechanical failure), backup batteries, oxygen tanks, and remote control. The pneumatic system is nowadays often replaced by a computer-controlled turbopump.

If any of you guys have design experience, electrical/ mechanical/ programming engineering knowledge please chip in and help design low cost/ indigenous project. You can contribute to save lives. I am sharing some design ideas and a research paper for reference. It would be great to work on a design through which a ventilator can be produced via locally available materials for prototyping and eventually mass production. Also, for computing and software processing preferably if a smartphone can be integrated otherwise arduino, raspberry pi based ideas will be great.

https://web.mit.edu/2.75/projects/DMD_2010_Al_Husseini.pdf

https://blog.arduino.cc/2020/03/17/designing-a-low-cost-open-source-ventilator-with-arduino/

If windsheild wipper motors can be integrated via some gears, it's easy to find, cheap and can be integrated for mechanical part.



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You are right vent can be made very cheap after all its a simple air pump

But even state of the art vent costs around 1 crore which is nothing..so pakistan only has 700 vents i.e 70 b rupees worth of vent. That is less than cost over run of islamabad airport.???

So is cost the issue ??? Ofcourse not..

Its lack of will from doctors training and even trained doctors to run the vents...

PS
Modern vent are comolex though..a BiVent, pressure support volume hybrids are not easy to manufacture though this function can be sacrificed..

The vent wount save u if u r sick u would need ECMOs

I agree. But as a country we are almost at the bottom in terms of literacy, scientific output and industrial capacity. Somewhere below India/Bangla and Sub Saharah Africans. This is blunt reality.

The blame goes to generations of political elite that has by design under invested in modern education [you can see how Bangla has overtaken us] and over inflated religion in public life so as to keep the poor masses sedate while they raped the country.

This happened when govt & PEOPLE in mid 2000s decides to run country like dubai rather than china
i.e trade hub rather than manufacturing

 

[CrazyZ]

Older style negative pressure ventilator. Looks like a balloon around your chest. Don't need a touch screen. On Off switch is fine.

 

[ziaulislam]

Older style negative pressure ventilator. Looks like a balloon around your chest. Don't need a touch screen. On Off switch is fine.

This wont work..we arent dealing with paralysis but hypoxia

This is a very stupid thread. A Ventilator is a pump and some tubing. Its not the damn Apollo spacecraft. Yes bells and whistles of modern ventilators are complicated to make, but the device is nearly a century old on the concept.
We have plenty of pump makers in the country and motor makers who could make something which would be good enough for present purposes.

Car engine is 100 years old
Can we make one?
Sure?
Do we
Nope

On topics these bells and whistles might save your life in need..bivents, PRVC are needed when time is critical


But something is better than nothing(no vents) so i vote with you

Hey even simple ambo bag is missing that can save you

I mean this

 

[sparten]

Car engine is 100 years old
Can we make one?
Sure?
Do we
Nope

Since that’s not economically feasible in normal times. These...are not normal times.

 

[ziaulislam]

Ambu bag attached are used in third world with family alternating to give 6 breaths per minute..
We dont have those in hospital

We just say fateh and let u die

Since that’s not economically feasible in normal times. These...are not normal times.

Money isnt the problem
2000 state of the art vent will Only cost 20 billion rupee..
Thats less than BMWs bought in last 5 yrs

PS
we only have 700 vent in pakistan
Just 65 in KPK

Oh..and docs arent trained in pakistan to run vents..so when u buying them do scratch your head..

You need ECMOs..in addition to vents

If u really need to save people

And cheap chinese vents

I just you can buy from alibaba for 1000$
I.e 1 lac
So 100 will cost 1 crore and 10,000 will cost 1 billion

Guess how much money we wasted on circular debt or an expensive LNG deal?

 

[ziaulislam]

So u see issue isnt cost or manufacturing ..its something sinister and deep

Its govt and people insensitively towards health care..docs insensitively ..people insensitivity and govt insensitivity

The summary is ..when you are sick you will neither get an ambulance or money (if u beg) but when u die you will get both..someone will pay for it..

 

[halupridol]

You are right vent can be made very cheap after all its a simple air pump

But even state of the art vent costs around 1 crore which is nothing..so pakistan only has 700 vents i.e 70 b rupees worth of vent. That is less than cost over run of islamabad airport.???

So is cost the issue ??? Ofcourse not..

Its lack of will from doctors training and even trained doctors to run the vents...

What is this doc insensitivity(lack of will frm doctors),u r talking about?

 

[CrazyZ]

LunaBelt is the portable pressometric and volumetric ventilator that focuses on the essential, combining the latest technological innovations with a straightforward, easy-to-usefunctionality.



LunaBelt is designed for hospital and home care. Small, light and portable, it offers multiple ventilation modes IV and NIV, in volume and pressure, the last can be combined with the desired target volume.

It is the only ventilator on the market able to perform the IPPV (intermittent abdominal pressure ventilation) ventilation technique, through a dedicated software and the PBAir® interface. IAPV ventilation promotes extra-thoracic NIV ventilation, using no masks, reducing the risk of facial decubitus and improving the life quality of patients.



APPLICATIONS

• IAPV (intermitent abdominal pressure ventilation)
• IV (invasive ventilation)
• NIV (non-invasive ventilation)
• MPV (mouthpiece ventilation)
  BATTERIA INTERNA LI-PO

The use of PBAir® in synergy with the IAPV software on the Luna device allows lung ventilation of patients with muscle weakness and diaphragmatic paralysis, conditions present in all neuromuscular pathologies.

 

[ziaulislam]

What is this doc insensitivity(lack of will frm doctors),u r talking about?

Pretty much..noone wants to take care of patients or imporve health care or lobby for health care or do honest timing

Everyone wants to make money

 

[halupridol]

Pretty much..noone wants to take care of patients or imporve health care or lobby for health care or do honest timing

Everyone wants to make money

i understand some doctors r to be blamed,,But isnt that how it is in each field now??
Puri society ne kiya toh koi nahi,,,kuch doctoro ne kiya toh haram.
What is the price of sanitizer and mask in Pakistan now?
Here 5rs mask is being sold for 20.
200 santizer is being sold at500+.
Hoarding is on full force.lekin in sab se kisine kuch lena dena nahi hai.
Yahi bussiness hai bolenge.
Heck,,,during summer gacations hotels n flights increase fairs,even AC tecnician charges more.
Why becoz its call business sense,,,i.e to make money at opportune moment.
I dont know about Pakistan but in India doctors are mere service providers,,,and are prosecutable unders consumer court,,,,which basically deals with disputes between businesses and customers.
So,,since law already deems us to be businessmen,,,why can we too not make profits at opportune times,,like all other businesses,,,but how many doctors do u think have increased thr fees during epidemics n such.(real doctors not jholachaps)
Can we exect even half of tht from other businessmen??

N how does it relate to miniscule number of ventilators?
Ventillator nahi hai,,doctor bura hai,,oxygen nahi hai,,doctor bura hai,,dawai nahi hai,,usme bhi doctor.
Yani health system me kisi bhi kharabi ka jimmedar doctor hai.
Some time ago On this forum,,even a lab tech student was berating pakistani docotrs,,,saying only the thirdclass types remain in Pakistan while the gud ones leave.This coming from a student studying to be a laboratory technician.
How many Anaesthesiologist/intensivists are produced from Pakistan medical colleges each year,,who controls tht number?how much does Pakistan spend on health care?
70yrs of ignorance n apathy,,,ab pyaas lagi toh kua khodne chale,,waah.
I thougt u urself were a medical professional,,with an impending disaster looming,,,i think its best to not project any negativity towards health professionals.

In coming days,,it is quite possible tht many doctors n nurses will have to face violence frm patient attendents.
I wish them all the best.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I can feel the pain in your posts.
You and I know that nothing is going to change.
Change requires a change of thinking and values. We are not prepared to undergo that change. The opium that the masses are brought up on from birth has Pakistan in a stranglehold.

The sad fact is, your 100% right.