Can We Really Consider Urdu as a National Language of Pakistan?

[Dushmann]

Urdu = Hindustani

 

[Joe Shearer]

Which mughal?

Babarnama is in persian.. autobiography by Babar..
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiQl83evsPWAhXFPBQKHfCnAdIQjhwIBQ&url=https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baburnama&psig=AFQjCNGbqicGfxIBUgyurVsFpn9J-PGW2Q&ust=1506537243635866


And Mughals were actually mongols, persianised... and by the time of Bahadurshah Zafar , Urdu had taken place of persian... ever heard / read urder poetry by Bahadurshah?

<sigh>

So you think I was bluffing? Have you ever seen me do that?

As for Urdu poetry, obviously without knowing it, nobody has a right to be a member of this forum:

naa kisii kii aaNkh kaa nuur huuN, naa kisii ke dil kaa qaraar huuN
jo kisii ke kaam na aa sake, maiN vo ek musht-e-gubaar huuN

Which mughal?

Babarnama is in persian.. autobiography by Babar..
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiQl83evsPWAhXFPBQKHfCnAdIQjhwIBQ&url=https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baburnama&psig=AFQjCNGbqicGfxIBUgyurVsFpn9J-PGW2Q&ust=1506537243635866


And Mughals were actually mongols, persianised... and by the time of Bahadurshah Zafar , Urdu had taken place of persian... ever heard / read urder poetry by Bahadurshah?

Since you are so learned, you also know that Babar was one of the first to write in his own dialect, Chaghatai Turkish. That was a book named Babarnama, which you have probably read in the original.

But why am I, an illiterate clown, addressing such a great scholar? Forgive me, your eminence.

 

[Pakistani E]

<sigh>

So you think I was bluffing? Have you ever seen me do that?

As for Urdu poetry, obviously without knowing it, nobody has a right to be a member of this forum:

naa kisii kii aaNkh kaa nuur huuN, naa kisii ke dil kaa qaraar huuN
jo kisii ke kaam na aa sake, maiN vo ek musht-e-gubaar huuN



Since you are so learned, you also know that Babar was one of the first to write in his own dialect, Chaghatai Turkish. That was a book named Babarnama, which you have probably read in the original.

But why am I, an illiterate clown, addressing such a great scholar? Forgive me, your eminence.

Lol this is what I imagine you as after reading some of your posts:

 

[Joe Shearer]

I was always told it was a mix. Actually the language of the warriors and traders of the time on some level.

Lol

Then you were always told right. It developed in the camps, ordo in Turkish, a word that also gave the English language the word 'horde', hence was known as Urdu. It dates back to the Sultan

Lol this is what I imagine you as after reading some of your posts:

LOL.

I seem to have made quite an impression on my pupils.

This is closer....I am several shades darker, about that lady's shade.......

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

We needed a unifying language. Urdu's structure was similar to most languages in modern-day Pakistan and thus was easy to learn; the educated class, who would later go on to form Pakistan's government, military high command and etc... also fluently spoke Urdu. It was the best short-term option available at that time.

Unfortunately by choosing Urdu Pakistan took out insurance policy that assured that Pak would converge with India. Not diverge. In the long run we are all being made "Indian". Crazy Indians.

Indeed most of Pakistan is remarkably more closer to Indian then it was in 1947 and will get even more closer as we move forward. It was like we made a country in 1947 so we could arrive at the same destination as India only on a separate flight.

@Joe Shearer Yeh Joe, I would love to read them.

Pure Urdu is actually very far from "being Indian". What we speak is a mixture of Hindi, Urdu and local languages and can almost be described as a different language from real Urdu.

As an example, look at this trailer; it has many lines in pure Urdu that most of us will hardly understand.

 

[Joe Shearer]

We needed a unifying language. Urdu's structure was similar to most languages in modern-day Pakistan and thus was easy to learn; the educated class, who would later go on to form Pakistan's government, military high command and etc... also fluently spoke Urdu. It was the best short-term option available at that time.

That is the key to it then. It was a short-term option.

As @Kaptaan had pointed out, in the long run, it inexorably drew Pakistan away from developing her own unique identity and drew her closer to the Indian original. Today, there is no getting away from it; @Oscar's pithy summary says it all.

We needed a unifying language. Urdu's structure was similar to most languages in modern-day Pakistan and thus was easy to learn; the educated class, who would later go on to form Pakistan's government, military high command and etc... also fluently spoke Urdu. It was the best short-term option available at that time.


Pure Urdu is actually very far from "being Indian". What we speak is a mixture of Hindi, Urdu and local languages and can almost be described as a different language from real Urdu.

As an example, look at this trailer; it has many lines in pure Urdu that most of us will hardly understand.

A good point, but unfortunately, as you yourself mentioned, "......What we speak is a mixture of Hindi, Urdu and local languages and can almost be described as a different language from real Urdu......"

 

[t_for_talli]

Urdu is the national language of Pakistan.
There are huge differences between Urdu and Hindi.

Personally I cannot understand Hindi. Different vocabulary.

Grammar, Sentence structure, articulation is same only vocab is different to some extent,
So basically Urdu shares basic structure and skeleton with Hindi but has some different words for Hindi counterparts.

And they are exactly same unless you are conveying some specific/ complicated terms. Thats why Pakistan understands Bollywood and we understand songs of Pakistani singers

 

[Joe Shearer]

Urdu is the national language of Pakistan.
There are huge differences between Urdu and Hindi.

Personally I cannot understand Hindi. Different vocabulary.

Join the club.

I know that this will upset you and hurt you terribly, but many Indians cannot understand the pure, Sanskritised Hindi that is being pushed at us by the government news channel, or by orthodox people. It also has to do with location; far more Sanskritised Hindi is spoken in the hills of UP, Uttarakhand as it is now known, than in the plains.

Personally speaking, I have to do a gear-shift to move from my eclectic brand of Hindustani to pure Hindi.

 

[Zibago]

Its understood by everyone i see no reason why it should be changed

 

[Joe Shearer]

In fact, Indians themselves today should be speaking Urdu as opposed to Hindi.

I agree, and apart from this humble fellow, you would have found yourself in good company. That was Gandhi's prescription; only, he called it Hindustani.

 

[dilpakistani]

this insistence of national language and culture has only created divide.. why there has to be a national language

 

[Magi Brahmin]

In common sence Urdu is a bastard (pardon my language) version of Prakrit with Arabic/persian and turkish words.

While hindi is still a sanskritic language, its nowhere near to prakrit.

Pure Hindi = Khariboli = prakrit.

- a khariboli speaker.

I agree with @Kaptaan , by chosing this language pakistan have destroyed its identity.

I always wondered why u guys chose this labgusge over persian, language of muslim court and sikh court of punjab and North India.

Join the club.

I know that this will upset you and hurt you terribly, but many Indians cannot understand the pure, Sanskritised Hindi that is being pushed at us by the government news channel, or by orthodox people. It also has to do with location; far more Sanskritised Hindi is spoken in the hills of UP, Uttarakhand as it is now known, than in the plains.

Personally speaking, I have to do a gear-shift to move from my eclectic brand of Hindustani to pure Hindi.

I dint know about uou, but majority of Indian Hindi speakers onpy use purer form of Hindi. I am talking about Haryana, Rajasthan, Hills and Western Central UP.

I have even seen Marathis and Gujjus using pure hindi instead of urdu mixture. We are not bombaywalas.

 

[Zibago]

this insistence of national language and culture has only created divide.. why there has to be a national language

So someone from GB like @WAJsal could understand and communicate with someone from Quetta or Larkana

 

[Joe Shearer]

In common sence Urdu is a bastard (pardon my language) version of Prakrit with Arabic/persian and turkish words.

While hindi is still a sanskritic language, its nowhere near to prakrit.

Pure Hindi = Khariboli = prakrit.

- a khariboli speaker.

I agree with @Kaptaan , by chosing this language pakistan have destroyed its identity.

I always wondered why u guys chose this labgusge over persian, language of muslim court and sikh court of punjab and North India.


I dint know about uou, but majority of Indian Hindi speakers onpy use purer form of Hindi. I am talking about Haryana, Rajasthan, Hills and Western Central UP.

I have even seen Marathis and Gujjus using pure hindi instead of urdu mixture. We are not bombaywalas.

1. How does Urdu become a Prakrit version, when Hindi had already been formed?
2. How on earth is Hindi nowhere near to Prakrit? It is descended from Prakrit.
3. If we have a problem with Hindi being associated with Prakrit, how do we get the equation Pure Hindi = Khariboli = Prakrit?
4. I don't know about you, but Rajasthan speaks a dialect close to Haryanvi, and neither of them has anything to do with pure Hindi, if we agree that pure Hindi is Khariboli. Certainly, western UP, and I don't know what the central is doing here, speaks Khariboli; how did Haryana and Rajasthan get in there? I certainly agree that the Uttarakhand portion speaks a very clear Hindi with minimal mixture of any other vocabulary, but am baffled to understand the references to Haryana and Rajasthan.
5. Marathas wouldn't recognise pure Hindi if it came up to them and did a namaste (I had rather more colourful an analogy in mind, but thought of my good friend @Peshwa and abstained); the Gujaratis I know, and knew, from my stay in Vadodara, didn't have a clue about pure Hindi. Many of them didn't have a clue about pure Gujarati at that.

I honestly can't understand why this post was needed, and who needed it.

 

[Peshwa]

1. Marathas wouldn't recognise pure Hindi if it came up to them and did a namaste (I had rather more colourful an analogy in mind, but thought of my good friend @Peshwa and abstained); the Gujaratis I know, and knew, from my stay in Vadodara, didn't have a clue about pure Hindi. Many of them didn't have a clue about pure Gujarati at that.

I honestly can't understand why this post was needed, and who needed it.

Haha! So true!
Literally "Bombaiya" Hindi is a mix of Hindi picked up from exposure to Bollywood with a generous peppering of Marathi.
That's the extent of Hindi for most Mumbaikars (locals).
The rest of Maharashtra as you said wouldn't know shudh Hindi if it hit them in the face.

I was born in Indore, MP (unfortunately) and spent my first six years of schooling there which helped a lot with my Hindi language skills. My hindi deteriorated once my family moved to Mumbai.