Another uprising brewing in Tamilnadu

[Maravan]

The following are speeches made by Thevar and are available on YouTube:

: Here Thevar talks about his affinity towards Hindu goddesses Parashakti, Lakshmi, Saraswati and also praises the service done by Swami Vivekananda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cG8fsjbox8 : Here Thevar talks about Yoga, Kundalini, Chakras and also about Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Swami Vivekananda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqsaVKtqdu8 : This is a collection of many of his speeches. Here Thevar makes scathing attacks on Communists. Talks about Bharata Mata and how he wanted to fight for her independence using armed struggle. He is showing his spirit of nationalism towards Bharata Mata.

This is the transcript of Thevar's first speech in Parliament http://tamil.webdunia.com/literature-history/மு‌த்துராம‌லி‌ங்க-தேவ‌ர்-உரை-109103000124_1.html .

Here he makes a very emotional appeal for establishing the sovereignty of India and for a strong Indian Army while making a scathing attack on Pakistan and also about Kashmir. He also mentions how the govt. is wrong to brush aside someone as communal if he talks about Hinduism.


This is the Thevar that everyone knows. An ardent nationalist with deep commitment towards Hinduism and the sovereignty of India.

Every biography of Thevar, every speech made by him, every anecdote about him point to the fact that he was fiercely nationalistic, proudly Hindu and fiercely against anyone who spoke about separatism.

And you are telling me that Thevar was only committed for the worker's cause and not for Bharata Mata and he allied with Bose only because of armed struggle and not because of his nationalism.

Either you are knowingly lying or you are extremely ignorant about Thevar. Inga paaru. Nee Indiava paththi enna venaalum pesu. Hinduism paththi enna venaalum sollikko. Thevar is someone I worship everyday. His picture is next to my grandparents and my mother's. Ithukku mela nee Thevara paththi poi sonnennaa evlo asingamaa pesanumo pesiruven. Thevarap paththi thappaa pesura maravan, onnu unmayiliye maravan illaama thulukkanaa irukkanum. Onnu nee therinje poi solra. Illennaa nee Thevaraip paththi ethuvume theriyaadhavanaa irukkanum.

Naan ramanathapurathu kaaran, sethupathi seemai la irukkiravanukku evanum thevara pathi paadam edukka vaendiyathu illa... Thevar ellarayum mathicha oru aalu, avarukku valarppu thaaya irunthathae oru muslim pombala thaan, nee avara pathi theriyaama ularuratha niruthu..

Thevar ku kadavul bhakthi irunthuchu thaan athigam, athukaaga aduthavan mathatha ilivaa paesura kaavi paya kootathu aalu maathiri oru naalum nadanthathu illa. Enna mukkunaalum thevar forward block kura idathusaari sinthanai ulla katchi la irunthaarukurathu thaan oorarinja unmai, antha katchi la enga thaathavae kadalaadi thoguthi MLA va ninnurukaaru, aana thothutaaru.. Athanaala thevar pattra pathi enakku nee paadam edukaatha.. Thevara sambanthamae illama kaavi payalugalukku sombu thookirathukaaga inga iluthu asinga paduthunathu nee thaan... athanaala nee saathu muthala.. Thevara kumbuduravan jallikattu porattam thaeva illa nu solra alavukku muttala irukka maatan, katha vidaatha. Nee thevanaavae irukka mudiyaathu, atha therinjuka vaendiya avasiyamum enakku illa..

Thevar iruntha pothu iruntha india ippa illa.. Enga thaatha irunthurukaaru, thevar irunthurukaaru nu naan enna 2017 la forward block katchi ku ottu podrathu illa, annaiku situation vaera, evanum thanni illa nu sonnathu illa, en kalacharatha kadai pidikka thadai pannathu illa, thevar irukkum pothu india raanuvatha ilangaikku anuppi tamilan ah kolla sonnathu illa, 1.5lakhs tamilan saaguratha summa amaithiya paathurukka maataru naan thaesiyam paesuranu solli, muthal aala seruppa kalatti adichirupaaru..

 

[Josef K]

Thevara sambanthamae illama kaavi payalugalukku sombu thookirathukaaga inga iluthu asinga paduthunathu nee thaan...

Naan unkitta kettadhu ore kelvi dhaan. Was Thevar a staunch Hindu or not? I did not ask you whether Thevar supported or opposed Hindutva or whether he was against other religions. I did not ever say Thevar was against Muslims. Dei...naan appadi sonnenu mattum kaamichchittu aduthu pesu da paarpom. English vaasikka theriyumla? Search all my posts. I may have made comments about the way Indian Muslims conduct themselves. But never once did I say Thevar hated other religions. What I said was very clear about how Thevar was an ardent Hindu and an ardent nationalist who was opposed to the Dravidian parties mainly because he was against their anti-Hindu and anti-India stance. Is that something do you deny?

Nee vera ethuvume solla vendaam. Just idhukku padhil sollu. Thevar was against any kind of separatism and was against anyone who spoke against Hinduism. Unmayaa? Illayaa?

Thevar iruntha pothu iruntha india ippa illa.. Enga thaatha irunthurukaaru, thevar irunthurukaaru nu naan enna 2017 la forward block katchi ku ottu podrathu illa, annaiku situation vaera, evanum thanni illa nu sonnathu illa, en kalacharatha kadai pidikka thadai pannathu illa, thevar irukkum pothu india raanuvatha ilangaikku anuppi tamilan ah kolla sonnathu illa, 1.5lakhs tamilan saaguratha summa amaithiya paathurukka maataru naan thaesiyam paesuranu solli, muthal aala seruppa kalatti adichirupaaru..

Thevar enna panneerupparunnu enakku theriyum. He would have opposed the Congress govt. that sent the Indian Army to Sri Lanka. He was opposed to the Congress govt. sending troops to the Northeast even in the 1950s. He knew that the govt. is different from the idea of a nation. He would have fought for the downfall of Congress govt. And that is part of the reason why I support the BJP. Thevar was for Hindus. Thevar was for united India. Thevar was against Congress. And so am I. Thevar was never against Muslims. But he will not have sat idle when some of them indulge in pro-Pakistan activities or spoke against the country. Neither will I.

So what is the oldest script?

Brahmi...The script in which Prakrit was written.

 

[Maravan]

Naan unkitta kettadhu ore kelvi dhaan. Was Thevar a staunch Hindu or not? I did not ask you whether Thevar supported or opposed Hindutva or whether he was against other religions. I did not ever say Thevar was against Muslims. Dei...naan appadi sonnenu mattum kaamichchittu aduthu pesu da paarpom. English vaasikka theriyumla? Search all my posts. I may have made comments about the way Indian Muslims conduct themselves. But never once did I say Thevar hated other religions. What I said was very clear about how Thevar was an ardent Hindu and an ardent nationalist who was opposed to the Dravidian parties mainly because he was against their anti-Hindu and anti-India stance. Is that something do you deny?

Nee vera ethuvume solla vendaam. Just idhukku padhil sollu. Thevar was against any kind of separatism and was against anyone who spoke against Hinduism. Unmayaa? Illayaa?



Thevar enna panneerupparunnu enakku theriyum. He would have opposed the Congress govt. that sent the Indian Army to Sri Lanka. He was opposed to the Congress govt. sending troops to the Northeast even in the 1950s. He knew that the govt. is different from the idea of a nation. He would have fought for the downfall of Congress govt. And that is part of the reason why I support the BJP. Thevar was for Hindus. Thevar was for united India. Thevar was against Congress. And so am I. Thevar was never against Muslims. But he will not have sat idle when some of them indulge in pro-Pakistan activities or spoke against the country. Neither will I.



Brahmi...The script in which Prakrit was written.

Thevar hindu thaan... Thevar kaavigalukku sombu thookunathu illa, congress kum thookunathu illa.. Nee aen kaavigalukku sombu thookura..

Nee thaan da ara loosu sonna, tamils ellam muslims ku ethiri nu ithae thread la irukkura post la... Entha mathathukkum ethira illatha thevara inga aen mental maathiri kondu vanthu ulari kittu Irukka, athukku muthal la pathil sollu...

Aama thevar congress ku sombu thookala, kaavigalukkum thookala.. Athanaala naanum rendu paerukumae thookala..

 

[Josef K]

Thevar hindu thaan... Thevar kaavigalukku sombu thookunathu illa, congress kum thookunathu illa.

Thevar was Hindu. I said this from the beginning. I very clearly mentioned that Thevar will not accept any of these Tamil nationalists rants against Hinduism. That was were I brought Thevar into the discussion. Not to say Thevar supported Hindutva. Go back to the discussion and check if what I say is true. If it is true, accept that you were wrong. If not show to me where I said "Thevar kaavigalukku sombu thookkunaar". Maravan ah da nee? Maravan naa itha sei daa paappom? You lied to me that Thevar was only a Murugan devotee and not a Hindu. You lied. Not I.

Nee aen kaavigalukku sombu thookura..

Thoomaiya kudikki naaye....naane kaavi thaan da...naan endaa kaavigalukku sombu thookkanum. Thamilanoda aadhi madhame Hindu madham dhaan da...athaye naan pala thadava kaamichchitten inga. I am a proud Hindu who follows the religion of my ancestors since the time of Tolkaappiyam. You are a Seeman sombu thookki who will lie to everybody about how Tamils were not Hindus.

Aama thevar congress ku sombu thookala, kaavigalukkum thookala.. Athanaala naanum rendu paerukumae thookala..

Nee oruthanukkum thookka vendaam. Thevar Hindu illanu sonna poiyya thirumba vaangunaa pothum.

Nee thaan da ara loosu sonna, tamils ellam muslims ku ethiri nu ithae thread la irukkura post la

Aamandaa....Muslim na, "I am a Muslim first. Nationality or ethnicity doesn't matter to me" appdinnu solravan. Quran laye irukku thelivaa...All Muslims are brothers foremost irrespective of nationality. Oru Tamil Muslimukku Arab Muslim thaan brother first. Then only a Tamil Hindu. This is very clear. If they refuse to accept, then they are not Muslims. Appadi nenaikkuravan ellorukkum Tamilan edhiri thaan. That is why LTTE massacred them in Kattankudy.


Aduthu varuvom, unnoda next poikku...Where did I say I was against Jallikkattu protest?

 

[Josef K]

Yaaru da sonna thevar kaaviku sombu thookunaaru nu ali pundai... Aravekkatu koothi... Kanjikku vakkathu poyi thulukkan poola arabia la oombi kittu thiriyura naayi aduthavana solluthu thoomiya kudikkinu.. Onbothu pundai kudumbatha inga vittutu arabia la evanukku vaai pottu kittu irukka? Inga un veetla ulla pottachi thoomaiya evanavathu kudichira poraan da onbothu koothi...

Allah endru solvatharkku munbae amma endru thaan sonnaen nu sonnavaru da kaayithae millath, onbothu pundai.. Arabia la vaai podratha niruthittu, un veeta paara, anga evanavathu thoomiya kudichira poraan ali pundai..

naan kettathukku padhile varalaye da thevadiyaa mavane. maravanukku unga aaththaa unnap peththu potturundhaa nee kaamichiduraa paappom naan "thevar kaavikku sombu thookkunarunnu" sonnadhaa....mudiyalella...potheettu po.

 

[Maravan]

naan kettathukku padhile varalaye da thevadiyaa mavane. maravanukku unga aaththaa unnap peththu potturundhaa nee kaamichiduraa paappom naan "thevar kaavikku sombu thookkunarunnu" sonnadhaa....mudiyalella...potheettu po.

Ada onbothu thaevudiya mavanae naan thevar kaavi ku sonbu thookunaaru nu sonna post ah kaami da.. Tamil padikka theriyuma da ayokkiya koothi... Poi anga un thulukkan poolukku vennai vai da, onbothu koothi..

 

[Josef K]

Ada onbothu thaevudiya mavanae naan thevar kaavi ku sonbu thookunaaru nu sonna post ah kaami da.. Tamil padikka theriyuma da ayokkiya koothi... Poi anga un thulukkan poolukku vennai vai da, onbothu koothi..

ada thevidiya thoomaiya kudikki, nee thaana da aarambichcha "thevar kaavikku sombu thookkunathu illai" nu...naan verumane Thevar Hindu appadingratha mattumthaana da sonnen? athuvum nee Hindu mathaththa paththi thappaa pesunappo, Thevar pinbatrunathe Hindu madhamthaannu kaannbikkurathukku sonnen...aanaa nee sambanthame illaama "thevar kaavikku sombu thookkunathu illai"nu ulari vachcha....yaarume inga appadi sollaliye da? arivungradhu ethaavadhu irukkaa? illai anga thulukkanukkum, kirithavanukkum oombi vittu verum kanji thaan un mandayila irukkaa?

btw, inga naan vela paakkurathu british mnc. deputation la irukkuren. innum maaruven...entha thulukkanukku keelayum vela paakkala.

 

[Maravan]

ada thevidiya thoomaiya kudikki, nee thaana da aarambichcha "thevar kaavikku sombu thookkunathu illai" nu...naan verumane Thevar Hindu appadingratha mattumthaana da sonnen? athuvum nee Hindu mathaththa paththi thappaa pesunappo, Thevar pinbatrunathe Hindu madhamthaannu kaannbikkurathukku sonnen...aanaa nee sambanthame illaama "thevar kaavikku sombu thookkunathu illai"nu ulari vachcha....yaarume inga appadi sollaliye da? arivungradhu ethaavadhu irukkaa? illai anga thulukkanukkum, kirithavanukkum oombi vittu verum kanji thaan un mandayila irukkaa?

btw, inga naan vela paakkurathu british mnc. deputation la irukkuren. innum maaruven...entha thulukkanukku keelayum vela paakkala.

Thulukkanukku vaai pottu mudichuttu aduthu chirstianukku poyacha, aravekkatu ali pundai "thevar kaavikku sombu thookunathu illa" nu sonna avaru kaavi ku support pannala nu artham.. Modu mutti pundai, adutha line la sonnathayum serthu paaru, " thevar kaavigalukku sombu thookunathu illa, congress kum thookala, athanaala naan rendu paerukkum thookala..

Aambala pottachi thoomaiya thaan kudippan, unna maathiri onbothu pundaiga thaan ooru vittu ooru naadu vitti naadu poyi oombi polaikkum..

 

[Josef K]

Thulukkanukku vaai pottu mudichuttu aduthu chirstianukku poyacha, aravekkatu ali pundai "thevar kaavikku sombu thookunathu illa" nu sonna avaru kaavi ku support pannala nu artham.. Modu mutti pundai, adutha line la sonnathayum serthu paaru, " thevar kaavigalukku sombu thookunathu illa, congress kum thookala, athanaala naan rendu paerukkum thookala..

Aambala pottachi thoomaiya thaan kudippan, unna maathiri onbothu pundaiga thaan ooru vittu ooru naadu vitti naadu poyi oombi polaikkum..

Mudiyala da unnoda...yendaa Senthil-Goundamani vazhappazha kadhai maathiri aakkura itha?

Naan porumaiyave kekkuren. appavaachchu nee yosichchu badhil solluriyaannu paarpom.

See here, in this post, you mentioned about Thevar being a devotee of Murugan: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/another-uprising-brewing-in-tamilnadu.480245/page-10

But I mentioned he was a Hindu who also worshiped other Hindu gods and was a staunch Hindu. He was in fact influenced by Ramayana and Mahabharata as well. You said "he never gave two heeds to sanghis and their lord ram" The sanghi part, I don't care about since during Thevar's time RSS was not this powerful. But you very specifically mentioned that Thevar didn't care about Ram and he only worshipped Murugan. Now that is where my refutation came in. Puriyudha?

And after that you kept on harping about how Thevar was not a sanghi or hindutvawadi. That was not my point at all. My point was Thevar was not just a Murugan devotee, but he was a full Hindu. This you did not accept initially. Unmayaa? Illayaa? This is the issue here. Whether Thevar supported sanghis or not was never the issue. Whether Thevar was the follower of Hinduism (and not just Murugan) was the issue.

 

[Maravan]

Mudiyala da unnoda...yendaa Senthil-Goundamani vazhappazha kadhai maathiri aakkura itha?

Naan porumaiyave kekkuren. appavaachchu nee yosichchu badhil solluriyaannu paarpom.

See here, in this post, you mentioned about Thevar being a devotee of Murugan: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/another-uprising-brewing-in-tamilnadu.480245/page-10

But I mentioned he was a Hindu who also worshiped other Hindu gods and was a staunch Hindu. He was in fact influenced by Ramayana and Mahabharata as well. You said "he never gave two heeds to sanghis and their lord ram" The sanghi part, I don't care about since during Thevar's time RSS was not this powerful. But you very specifically mentioned that Thevar didn't care about Ram and he only worshipped Murugan. Now that is where my refutation came in. Puriyudha?

And after that you kept on harping about how Thevar was not a sanghi or hindutvawadi. That was not my point at all. My point was Thevar was not just a Murugan devotee, but he was a full Hindu. This you did not accept initially. Unmayaa? Illayaa? This is the issue here. Whether Thevar supported sanghis or not was never the issue. Whether Thevar was the follower of Hinduism (and not just Murugan) was the issue.

Thevar ella kadavulayum follow pannirukalaam, rightu... Antha kaalathula RSS/hindutvadi powerful ah illaya? Gandhiya pottu thalra alavukku power irunthurukku... Appadiyae irunthaalum thevar oru kaalamum RSS kootathukku support pannirukka maataru... Aen na avaru, kitta thatta thannoda 80000 acre land ah illatha aelaigalukku kuduthurukaaru, athula athigam bayan adanjavanga, dalit and muslims thaan, ithu marukka mudiyaatha unmai... Ippadi paagupaadu illama nallathu panna thevar, muslim ah virothiya paakura RSS powerful ah iruntha support pannirupaaru nu nenaikurathae paithiyakaara thanam...

 

[Josef K]

Thevar ella kadavulayum follow pannirukalaam, rightu... Antha kaalathula RSS/hindutvadi powerful ah illaya? Gandhiya pottu thalra alavukku power irunthurukku... Appadiyae irunthaalum thevar oru kaalamum RSS kootathukku support pannirukka maataru... Aen na avaru, kitta thatta thannoda 80000 acre land ah illatha aelaigalukku kuduthurukaaru, athula athigam bayan adanjavanga, dalit and muslims thaan, ithu marukka mudiyaatha unmai... Ippadi paagupaadu illama nallathu panna thevar, muslim ah virothiya paakura RSS powerful ah iruntha support pannirupaaru nu nenaikurathae paithiyakaara thanam...

Thevar RSS support panneerukka maattaarunne vechchukkuvom. Naan kettadhu enna? Thevar Hindhu madhaththin meedhu eedupaadu kondirunthaaraa? illayaa? enbathu mattum thaan. Hindu madhaththai nindhikkum intha Tamil dhesiyavaadhak koottaththai innaikku irunthirunthaal Thevar nichahaymaaga ethirthu iruppaar enbathu thaan ennudaya vaadham. Unmayaa? Illayaa?

 

[Maravan]

Thevar RSS support panneerukka maattaarunne vechchukkuvom. Naan kettadhu enna? Thevar Hindhu madhaththin meedhu eedupaadu kondirunthaaraa? illayaa? enbathu mattum thaan. Hindu madhaththai nindhikkum intha Tamil dhesiyavaadhak koottaththai innaikku irunthirunthaal Thevar nichahaymaaga ethirthu iruppaar enbathu thaan ennudaya vaadham. Unmayaa? Illayaa?

Thevar uyiroda iruntha varaikkum, hindi thinippu, water problem, meenavargala suttu kolrathu, methane, kalutha kuthari nu entha prachanaiyum irunthathu illa, athanaala atha predict panna mudiyaathu.. Ippa ethirthu tamil desiyam paesuravan ellam oru kaalathula jai hind kosam pottavan thaan...

 

[Josef K]

Thevar uyiroda iruntha varaikkum, hindi thinippu, water problem, meenavargala suttu kolrathu, methane, kalutha kuthari nu entha prachanaiyum irunthathu illa, athanaala atha predict panna mudiyaathu.. Ippa ethirthu tamil desiyam paesuravan ellam oru kaalathula jai hind kosam pottavan thaan...

Hindi thinippu 1937 thodangiye irunthathu. DMK katchiyudaye mukkiya issue ve Hindi thinippudhaan. 1949 thodangiye DMK ithai vaithuthaan arasiyal seithathu. Thevar paaraalumandraththukku therndhedukkappatta varudam 1952. Appove theeviramaa DMK va ethirthaar. 1957 il DMK Anti-Hindi day kondaadichchu. Aanaal Thevar endha kaalaththilum privinaivaadhaththai aadharikkala.

The other problems that you have mentioned had other dimensions in those days. However Thevar was staunchly nationalistic. You are only speculating based on your wishful thinking of what you believe Thevar should have done. I am projecting what Thevar would have done, based on my assessment of Thevar's actions and his thoughts. Who has the chance of being more right here?

But nationalism is only one part. My first issue was about Thevar's Hinduism and the Tamil nationalists opposition for Hinduism. Where does hindi thinippu, water, fishermen etc. come in with respect to Hinduism? Thevar would have never agreed with atheism or anything anti-Hindu. That was my first issue with your portrayal of Thevar. Thevar believed(rightly so) that the people should not pay heed to those who promulgated anti-Hindu sentiments. Will Thevar agree with the anti-Hindu sentiments of Tamil nationalists today? In fact, Thevar's opposition to Dravidian parties was mainly on the basis of their anti-Hinduism and not so much because of their separatism. Even if we agree that Thevar might accept a separate Tamil Nadu (which I am very sure Thevar wouldn't have), do you think Thevar would have agreed to the anti-Hindu stance?

Also, the war in SL, was very much a Buddhist-Hindu conflict as much as it was a Sinhala-Tamil conflict. It was the Buddhist monks who first insisted on oppressing the Tamils on the basis of their religion. The language issue came after that. But that can be discussed later.

 

[kvpak]

Tamil nationalists rants against Hinduism

Tamil nationalism and Hinduism are unrelated topics. One is nationalism another is religion.

Read this

Hinduism and Tamil Nationalism

the war in SL, was very much a Buddhist-Hindu conflict as much as it was a Sinhala-Tamil conflict.

No. It was a national liberation movement. Independence war. Don't twist everything into your religious fanaticism

 

[Josef K]

Tamil nationalism and Hinduism are unrelated topics. One is nationalism another is religion.

Read this

Hinduism and Tamil Nationalism



No. It was a national liberation movement. Independence war. Don't twist everything into your religious fanaticism

Adhu Tamilargal prechana. Naanga paathukkurom. Neenah unga velaiya paathuttu ponga.