Mass Conversion To Christianity: A Case Study Of Chuhra Community In Sialkot District (1880- 1930)

[Hamza913]

Open a new thread. Post your sources

Maybe later, insha'Allah.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

What Rajput clan you belong?
I am Janjua Rajput and i think Pakistani Rajputs share nothing with Afghans, Turks, Persian, Arabs except religious beliefs and sure we can only speak for ourselves and people are free to claim foreign origin if it make them feel superior but truth is this love and affiliation with arabs/Persian/central asians is one sided because others side don't associate with us in any way ..They even make fun of us that why we are naming our missiles abadli, gauri etc

Rajputs of Hoshiarpur. I don’t want to go any deeper brother.

 

[Yankee-stani]

I’m Rajput Punjabi before anything, but I’m not going to reject my commonality with Afghans, Arabs, Persians, and Turks to make you happy.

Significant populations of Punjab have foreign origins like Arains, Niyazis, and Sayyids.

Our time under Turco-Persian dynasties caused our reawakening as a nation and our Islamization. It was the seminal event in our history.



You don’t have to love and idolize Ranjit Singh to be classified as a true Punjabi...

I am going go with @Proudpakistaniguy we got nothing in common with these Central Asians,Turks or etc Iran sort of we just have the same religion besides those regions went through demographic changes over the centuries their look our look change

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

No, I've issued takfir upon you because you're a Kafir and it's very apparent. All you do is label people as Arab wannabes when it suits you.

Let’s keep this out of PDF for now, brother.

The consensus of the ulema on Quranists is well known.

Fact is that significant populations of Pakistanis are descended from Muslim populations from beyond our borders.

Even my Rajput clan intermarried with Turkics (Mughals, etc.) and Tajiks/Persians (Ghauris.)

How can we deny our heritage?

 

[Yankee-stani]

Let’s be keep this out of PDF for now, brother.

The consensus of the ulema on Quranists is well known.

Fact is that significant populations of Pakistanis are descended from Muslim populations from beyond our borders.

Even my Rajput clan intermarried with Turkics (Mughals, etc.) and Tajiks/Persians (Ghauris.)

How can we deny our heritage?

Centuries ago yeah but we developed into our own identity enough we wuz this its Pakistan in 2019

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I am going go with @Proudpakistaniguy we got nothing in common with these Central Asians,Turks or etc Iran sort of we just have the same religion besides those regions went through demographic changes over the centuries their look our look change

Do you deny your own blood composition? Your cultural origins? Nomadic blood and warrior spirit runs deep within us.

We are mostly descended from invaders on this land, as the previous inhabitants have been diluted to almost nonexistence by Aryan/Iranic and subsequent settlement.

The Iranic migrations which led to our current zat and biradri system.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Do you deny your own blood composition? Your cultural origins? Nomadic blood and warrior spirit runs deep within us.

We are mostly descended from invaders on this land, as the previous inhabitants have been diluted to almost nonexistence by Aryan/Iranic and subsequent settlement.

The Iranic migrations which led to our current zat and biradri system.

Who says I am denying that no I say we are Iranic people but geography and geo politics combined gave us this identity I want us to racially identify as Pakistanis that's what's I am implying

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Who says I am denying that no I say we are Iranic people but geography and geo politics combined gave us this identity I want us to racially identify as Pakistanis that's what's I am implying

Today, we are Pakistanis, yes.

Racially we have been sons of this soil for the last 2000 years atleast, we settled this land and made it our own.

We grew up here and we buried our dead here. For us, it is our Holy Earth (Arz e Pak) as Allama Iqbal referred to this land even before Pakistan.

Pakistan though is not merely a racial or ethnic identity, but rather it is a spiritual and philosophical mindset as well.

It is a dream and a destiny. It is a wish of our ancestors, keeping this land sanctified with Allah swt’s name.

In this way, we share commonality in mindset with Turks. Both of us believe in the same idea of qadr of our nation, the will and confidence to propagate Islam in the heartland of Kufr.

It is a shame that Arab, Persian, and Afghans have lost their paths and embraced this hollow and self-defeating concept of secular nationalism.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Today, we are Pakistanis, yes.

Racially we have been sons of this soil for the last 2000 years atleast, we settled this land and made it our own.

We grew up here and we buried our dead here. For us, it is our Holy Earth (Arz e Pak) as Allama Iqbal referred to this land even before Pakistan.

Pakistan though is not merely a racial or ethnic identity, but rather it is a spiritual and philosophical mindset as well.

It is a dream and a destiny. It is a wish of our ancestors, keeping this land sanctified with Allah swt’s name.

In this way, we share commonality in mindset with Turks. Both of us believe in the same idea of qadr of our nation, the will and confidence to propagate Islam in the heartland of Kufr.

It is a shame that Arab, Persian, and Afghans have lost their paths and embraced this hollow and self-defeating concept of secular nationalism.

Slight disagreement this my issue with Pakistanis stop this infatutuation with Foreigners besides the Turks dont share the same view like us they are secular nationalists and Ataturk was a secularist Erdogan is a phase once he is gone which is good they will be more nationalistic

 

[M. Sarmad]

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan
So, you are just another sectarian Takfiri .....
Not surprising though

Let’s be keep this out of PDF for now, brother.

The consensus of the ulema .... is well known.

 

[B.K.N]

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan
So, you just are another sectarian Takfiri .....
Not surprised though

Sectarian takfiri?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Sectarian takfiri?

Add it to list of other complaints...

Slight disagreement this my issue with Pakistanis stop this infatutuation with Foreigners besides the Turks dont share the same view like us they are secular nationalists and Ataturk was a secularist Erdogan is a phase once he is gone which is good they will be more nationalistic

Maybe I’m not reading the same material or acquainted with the same people you are.

I would hardly consider Maulana Jalaluddin Rumi, Yunus Emre, Said Nursi, Mehmet Asif Ersoy as seculars.

Pakistan has its fair share of secular liberals too.

However Allama Iqbal, Maulana Maududi, Mufti Taqi Usmani, and Dr. Israr Ahmad were/are hardly secular.

Seculars have not had a large influence on our society and remain fringe at best.

 

[SIPRA]

I think that it's one's own choice and will, how he/she prioritizes and ranks his religious, national, ethnic and caste associations and identities, but than this ranking leads to making certain judgements on historical incidences and persons. Often, this process is subconscious, in nature.

For example, if a Muslim Punjabi gives a precedence to being Muslim, over his ethnic identity; than to him Ahmad Shah Abdali would most probably be a hero. In a converse situation, may be, Ranjeet Singh would assume this position.

Calling people Kafir, on such positionings, is unfortunate and unwarranted.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Calling people Kafir, on such positionings, is unfortunate and unwarranted.

That's not the contention brother.

If someone knows he has some heterodox ideas about religion, it would be wise not to pass judgements on others nor pass his/her ideas as normative.

Simply put, when you point one finger at someone, then four fingers point back at you.

Just wait and you will understand.

Saying that, let’s get back on topic.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I think that it's one's own choice and will, how he/she prioritizes and ranks his religious, national, ethnic and caste associations and identities, but than this ranking leads to making certain judgements on historical incidences and persons. Often, this process is subconscious, in nature.

For example, if a Muslim Punjabi gives a precedence to being Muslim, over his ethnic identity; than to him Ahmad Shah Abdali would most probably be a hero. In a converse situation, may be, Ranjeet Singh would assume this position.

Those Punjabis who consider Ahmad Shah a hero, they do so more because of their hatred towards India than anything else. For them anyone and everyone who attacks (or has attacked) and ransacks India is a hero regardless of his religion. They are completely oblivious to the fact that Abdali's invasions of India/Punjab were purely plundering campaigns with absolutely no religious overtones or undertones as they were directed against other Muslims most of the time. And I won't blame them as it's the state-sponsored indoctrination via distortion that, while trying to 'resolve' the Pakistani identity crisis (esp. post 1971, when 'Mutalia Pakistan' was introduced), has instilled irrational admiration and love of foreign invaders in them through school textbooks and other materials.

As for Ranjeet Singh, he may not be a hero for Pakistani Punjabis, but the emergence of the sovereign state of Punjab in 1799 under Ranjit Singh was a moment of crowning glory in the evolution of a distinctive Punjabi identity. And it was the Sikhs who rolled back the Afghans to the current border that was later formalized as Durand Line by the British. Ranjit Singh's rule, as per neutral accounts, was impartial, humanitarian and lenient towards all societies.

Calling people Kafir, on such positionings, is unfortunate and unwarranted.

Being declared Kafir by these clueless wannabes when they run out of arguments in a historical/political debate should be taken as a 'compliment' instead. By doing so, these bigots not only expose their bigotry, but ignorance and lack of knowledge also.