Z-10 or T-129 Atak or AH-1Z for the Pakistan Army?

[cabatli_53]

So effectively, it got cancelled? I mean the 12 km version, that's a tragedy

You know what interests me the most....kmtas! It can give a platoon a mini guided artillery.

Not cancelled but evolved into a new project. There is an ongoing effort called UMTAS-ER (like Spike NLOS) which is planned to develop a new variant UMTAS ATGM with a range around 20+km but I don't suppose that This version will be for Atak mounted one cause of weight issue.

You know, KMTAS will be an USA Javelin equivalent, smaller version of OMTAS. It is under development...

 

[Bilal.]

Yep I know that's what makes KMTAS so interesting, let's see when it's unveiled.

I remember back in Musharaf days there was an MOU to develop PGMs and even smart submunitions. Too bad things got stalled, hopefully, with improving economy we will revisit those deals.

 

[cabatli_53]

Do have any idea what kind of armor battles we have in Indo-pak ???

Do really think it would be wise to send T-129's with 16 atgm's without any AAM's fortheir protection and without rockets to a battlefield which has 300+ hostile mbt's with their own air support !!!!

There is no attack helicopter which can stand in an area heavily protected. It is about nature of attack copters. It is not important which type EW systems you are going to use on them. If you don't use the attack helicopters within their profile without any protection, They will never serve their missions in battlefield heavily protected by aircrafts, SAM and SPAAG platforms. That's why 21. century welcomed with Network centric warfare terms which aims to use multiple assets simultaneously under same network for best awareness and most suitable platform selection to counter closest threats...

 

[TaimiKhan]

Had it been upto me and provided i had the finances, i would have gone for both. atleast 2 Sqds each. Its always good to keep a chinese product and western product, it gives you best out of both, gives you something to benchmark with, more options as per mission requirements especially if we look at our COIN operations which are gonna keep going for many years more. Gives you versatility when it comes to options, one light/medium platform and another one a heavy 7-ton platform.

Incase western ones does get sanction, we will have another platform at our disposal. I love both of them

 

[That Guy]

No one has the crystal ball, i don't take other people's word on face value.

What do you think about the split opinion? the poll is sooo close.

 

[cabatli_53]

If i don't remember wrong (feel free to correct me) , the pod on the far left is the new launcher for the Cirit. Which houses 12 cirit on one pod.

T129B version will be loaded with 8 UMTAS, 12 CIRIT and 2 AIM-92 Stinger missiles.

Which makes it a multi-role heli. I don't know much about the WZ-10 but with the configuration you provided it fills the tank-hunter role which will be useless against asymmetric warfare ( aka: taliban)

Source: https://www.tai.com.tr/en/project/atak

As far as I know, To fire Cirit missiles, It is required specially designed canisters storing missiles for ignition. Cirit+Canister size is wider than 2,75 inch so Cirit missiles can't be fired by standart 2,75 inch unguided launchers but Roketsan designed smart launchers.

You can see canister in that image locating vertically next to Cirit missile on wall

 

[-SINAN-]

Okay, than this is

designed for unguided 70mm rockets.

As far as I know, To fire Cirit missiles, It is required specially designed canisters storing missiles for ignition. Cirit+Canister size is wider than 2,75 inch so Cirit missiles can't be fired by standart 2,75 inch unguided launchers but Roketsan designed smart launchers.

You can see canister in that image locating vertically next to Cirit missile on wall

Now i'm just thinking, When i look at the above photo. I can see than, smaller cirit pods can be placed at the upper rails and bigger ones to the below rails. Which would be 4 + 8 = 12 cirits.

Now , Roketsan's site only gives info about Cirit's weight (15 kg ) without pods.

Since one pylon restricted with 300 kgs.... 12 cirits x 15 kg = 180 kg.

Only 120 kg will be left for the pods weight... Do think pods overall weight will be under 120 kgs ?

 

[Kompromat]

@DANGER-ZONE @That Guy

The avionics deal for Thunders with France was not stopped by the US but by India. Remember when they just dropped Rafale for no apparent reason for MMRCA contest, than the French cancelled the deal with Pakistan and the next thing you know, the Rafale had come on the top.

 

[Bratva]

@DANGER-ZONE @That Guy

The avionics deal for Thunders with France was not stopped by the US but by India. Remember when they just dropped Rafale for no apparent reason for MMRCA contest, than the French cancelled the deal with Pakistan and the next thing you know, the Rafale had come on the top.

Indian Pressure succeeded because Pakistan doesn't had money to pay 1 Billion dollar ( 50 JF-17 to equip). It was 2009. Pak asked to finance the deal through soft loans and long term installments. French didn't agreed to it. Deal felt apart. Chinese stepped in with their gracious loans and JF-17 remained afloat. Until 2013, when we came to know PAF facing financial situation since 2007

 

[That Guy]

@DANGER-ZONE @That Guy

The avionics deal for Thunders with France was not stopped by the US but by India. Remember when they just dropped Rafale for no apparent reason for MMRCA contest, than the French cancelled the deal with Pakistan and the next thing you know, the Rafale had come on the top.

Huh, I actually didn't know that. If what you say is true, France really played with fire there. No doubt PA and PAF don't consider France as a reliable supplier any longer.

Still, it shouldn't be surprising that India would be behind it. They have the most to lose and with their growing ties to the west, they also have the most to gain. France, no doubt, was looking at the money.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

@DANGER-ZONE @That Guy

The avionics deal for Thunders with France was not stopped by the US but by India. Remember when they just dropped Rafale for no apparent reason for MMRCA contest, than the French cancelled the deal with Pakistan and the next thing you know, the Rafale had come on the top.

I know that ! I mentioned it when you said the thing about "PAKISTAN'S RESPONSE" over possible sanction in future.
But USA did struck the plan to built an armed FALCO-UAV with Italy and there are many other examples as well like recent ARAB's betrayal over arm purchases under US pressure.
Well it doesn't worth discussing right now because deal is not finalised and even if it is secured, we just cannot ignore the US factor.

 

[klimove]

TA129 2 reasons 1st becoz we should use a different platform, we have 90% china , 2nd its a good helicopter with agusta experience.

 

[nomi007]

WZ-19 attack helicopter and WZ-10

 

[That Guy]

I know that ! I mentioned it when you said the thing about "PAKISTAN'S RESPONSE" over possible sanction in future.
But USA did struck the plan to built an armed FALCO-UAV with Italy and there are many other examples as well like recent ARAB's betrayal over arm purchases under US pressure.
Well it doesn't worth discussing right now because deal is not finalised and even if it is secured, we just cannot ignore the US factor.

Actually, that was due to EU pressure. EU still have military related sanctions on Pakistan, so the USA was out of the picture on that one.

 

[cabatli_53]

T-129 Atak in the hands of Turkish Army