Why are we so adamant in our support for Palestine when they themselves support India against us?

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

So were those machar jhol eating Bongs. Wasn't enough to bind us eh? Lol don't be fooled into thinking you will find religious fraternity in Turkey and CAR on the basis of Sunnism. They are through and through secular people. Your religious effervescenct Taliban fanboying will win no favors with them.

I prefer to give precedence to my own personal experiences and knowledge than what some guy on an internet forum says.

We obviously are going to disagree on this.

I am not only supporter of Taliban government in Afghanistan (like most Pakistanis,) but also Kashmir freedom fighters and Palestinian statehood. Yet you will only focus on my support for a government which is also being supported by China, Russia, and other states.

This is just intellectual dishonesty and mudslinging.

I respect your right to believe as you wish. Do you see me hurling insults for your ethnicity, political, or your religious views?

First of all, I think someone who does not believe in Islamic fiqh should not have any right to criticize the Islamic faith.

Second, I do not believe racism should be allowed on this forum.

Thirdly, personal insults and labela should not be allowed on this forum.

As of now, how many Pakistanis have you labeled extremists or tried to silence by using Pakistani minority card?

Seems to be a consistent issue with you.

Read Iqbal or even Jinnah, association with religious leaders like Maududi is an example.

I am pretty sure, it can't work in the Pakistan for at least 50 years, Shah did his forceful secularisation for half a century, Pakistan got the opposite.
What I am proposing is something on the lines "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" - it did away the solidarity with Soviets and other communist with that BS socialistic internationalism going to dustbin.

Not enough differentiating from others, especially Arabs. Otherwise, there would not have been the "Al-Bakistani" phenomenon.


Pakistan is not homogenous enough.

We did not ask you Indians for advice on Pakistan? We created Pakistan in spite of you.

It is a reality, so deal with it.

You should be more worried about Hindutva mobs brandishing knives against your own community.

 

[QWECXZ]

Yugoslavia fell when socialism fell, Pakistan and Islam have a similar relationship. Lebanon may have religious diversity but they're all Arabs (less or more) - Pakistan have ethnic diversity, any kind of ethnic nationalism is bound to be exclusive to others and integrating ethnic nationalism is like integrating Arab-Persian-Turk into one ethnic history - possible but highly difficult to disentangle from Islam.

We have successfully integrated Persians, Azeris, Turkmens, Kurds, Baluchis, Arabs, Armenians and others in one country and our country is one of the most stable countries in the region. Russia has done the same. The US has done the same. What do you think constitutes the American nationality?

A nation is built on the achievements on its people, its history and its traditions. Religion will always play an indirect role through traditions, but if you make that association direct, you are bound to have problems.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Yugoslavia fell when socialism fell, Pakistan and Islam have a similar relationship. Lebanon may have religious diversity but they're all Arabs (less or more) - Pakistan have ethnic diversity, any kind of ethnic nationalism is bound to be exclusive to others and integrating ethnic nationalism is like integrating Arab-Persian-Turk into one ethnic history - possible but highly difficult to disentangle from Islam.

Pakistanis, like Punjabis and Pukhtoons, are not so different.

This is where the bogus analysis of Non-Pakistanis always fails. This is also the reason I do not view Pakistanis in diaspora who do not have cultural link or linguistic link to Pakistan as our people.

Pakistani identity has two factors, religion/ideology and land/race.

Should be discussed in its own thread.

We have successfully integrated Persians, Azeris, Turkmens, Kurds, Baluchis, Arabs, Armenians and others in one country and our country is one of the most stable countries in the region. Russia has done the same. The US has done the same. What do you think constitutes the American nationality?

A nation is built on the achievements on its people, its history and its traditions. Religion will always play an indirect role through traditions, but if you make that association direct, you are bound to have problems.

Nope, two glaring examples above which I bolded.

 

[Yankee-stani]

We have successfully integrated Persians, Azeris, Turkmens, Kurds, Baluchis, Arabs, Armenians and others in one country and our country is one of the most stable countries in the region. Russia has done the same. The US has done the same. What do you think constitutes the American nationality?

I am quite critical of American "Civic Nationalism" its too narrow and I feel America will have an identity crisis in the coming decades as the WASPS and European Americans die off as for Iran,Russia,Turkey etc their titular nationality, Russians,Persians and Turks still make a bulk of nations majority

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Speak for yourself honeyyyy. Looool.

Yes, I do, and for my people (Pakistanis.) We are mostly devout religious people who have loyalty to our religion and culture.

Our ties with Afghans, Arabs, and Turks goes back centuries.

 

[Naofumi]

We have successfully integrated Persians, Azeris, Turkmens, Kurds, Baluchis, Arabs, Armenians and others in one country and our country is one of the most stable countries in the region. Russia has done the same. The US has done the same. What do you think constitutes the American nationality?

And Shi'ism plays a role in that, Khuzestani Arabs sided with Iran during the Iraq war because they heard about the Saddam's treatment of Shi'as. You made Iraq your playground because of Shi'ism. Ba'athist Syria sided with you against Ba'athist Iraq because of religion. Religion plays a role until you're Europeans, we third worlders need a lot of enlightenment to reach that level, even you Iranians are miles ahead of us.

 

[QWECXZ]

Nope, two glaring examples above which I bolded.

Yes, we have. We are one of the safest countries in the region. There are currently no security issues that in any way make us worried about our national unity.

I am quite critical of American "Civic Nationalism" its too narrow and I feel America will have an identity crisis in the coming decades as the WASPS and European Americans die off as for Iran,Russia,Turkey etc their titular nationality, Russians,Persians and Turks still make a bulk of nations majority

Well, they haven't had it so far and I doubt they would ever have a national identity crisis.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

You have to speak a Pakistani language to be considered a Pakistani in my eyes.

That means Urdu, Punjabi, Pukhto, Balochi, Hindko, Seraiki, Koshuri, Pahari, Balti, etc. Take your pick.

You cannot know anything about the ground reality of Pakistan, if you are unable to watch our media, read our books, or converse with us.

Otherwise you will make ridiculous claims about Pakistani identity and further narratives of Indians, Iranians, and other enemies against Pakistanis.

I am not getting involved in your teenage drama.

To me, the Pak identity has to do with also the Ma'neviyat!! In this Dava, the closest kins (Father against son, brother against brother etc.) become mortal enemies, and the furthest strangers become bosom friends....

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Yes, we have. We are one of the safest countries in the region. There are currently no security issues that in any way make us worried about our national unity.


Well, they haven't had it so far and I doubt they would ever have a national identity crisis.

Did you, or did you not just have operarions in Baluchistan?

How many operations throughout the years have you had on Sunni Baluch?

As for Azeris, we also know about the racism against Turks in Iranian society and separatism in Southern Azerbaycan.

 

[Cliftonite]

Yes, I do, and for my people (Pakistanis.) We are mostly devout religious people who have loyalty to our religion and culture.

Our ties with Afghans, Arabs, and Turks goes back centuries.

No. You cannot possibly speak for every Pakistani as an individual.

You know we are just going around in circles. Let's just drop it. I'm not opposed to you, it's some things you say, your Taliban apologism and religion or nothing attitude that I call out. Let's just agree to disagree and stop arguing buddy

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

You are presenting an image of Iran which is idealistic and not the reality.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Increased border clashes between Iranian backed terrorists like BLF and Pakistani security forces will be the death of pro-Iranian sentiments among Pakistani masses.

This guy is not Pakistani (his dad was apparently though,) he can't speak Urdu. You have to talk in English.

Half my extended family is Pukhtoon, so ofcourse I am a big fan of Pukhtoons and Pukhtoon culture. Therein lies the solution for half our problems. Have you ever seen a Pukhtoon show meakness in front of Iranians or others? They speak their minds, and I admire that bravery and openness.

As long as this nations Anglo Baboon elite continues to use English in daily conversations,and uses English Terms, English forms of Government like a Parliament and the military using British ranks sure since the mid 70s they has been mix of Islam to give it a veneer of Pakistaniness but still English is use as long as that is instititinalized then you have no right to say who is not Pakistani or not @Old School

Yugoslavia fell when socialism fell, Pakistan and Islam have a similar relationship. Lebanon may have religious diversity but they're all Arabs (less or more) - Pakistan have ethnic diversity, any kind of ethnic nationalism is bound to be exclusive to others and integrating ethnic nationalism is like integrating Arab-Persian-Turk into one ethnic history - possible but highly difficult to disentangle from Islam.

Pakistanis, like Punjabis and Pukhtoons, are not so different.

This is where the bogus analysis of Non-Pakistanis always fails. This is also the reason I do not view Pakistanis in diaspora who do not have cultural link or linguistic link to Pakistan as our people.

Pakistani identity has two factors, religion/ideology and land/race.

Should be discussed in its own thread.



Nope, two glaring examples above which I bolded.

I have cultural links, my Urdu isnt great but someone who has no links to the country is someone who does not visit often or follow events daily what occurs there those folks tend know very little of Pakistan in general and you wont find these types in PDF for sure

 

[QWECXZ]

And Shi'ism plays a role in that, Khuzestani Arabs sided with Iran during the Iraq war because they heard about the Saddam's treatment of Shi'as. You made Iraq your playground because of Shi'ism. Ba'athist Syria sided with you against Ba'athist Iraq because of religion. Religion plays a role until you're Europeans, we third worlders need a lot of enlightenment to reach that level, even you Iranians are miles ahead of us.

Not exactly. There were Pan-Arab Khuzestanis that actually betrayed Iran during the war and embraced the Iraqi invasion, but there weren't many. Saddam never mistreated Khuzestani Arabs based on religion. He treated them extremely well when he occupied Khuzestan and promised to give them lands for free.

Iraq became our playground because the US invaded the country but didn't help Iraq stand on her feet after invasion. The feeling of having foreigners walk freely in your country while your country is suffering is in itself a strong motivation for siding with your enemy's enemy. Iraqi people are in fact not religious at all. They have one of the highest number of atheists in the Middle East besides Iran.

Ba'athist Syria is a secular regime. It sided with us because they felt threatened by an expansionist powerful country called Israel.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Yes, we have. We are one of the safest countries in the region. There are currently no security issues that in any way make us worried about our national unity.


Well, they haven't had it so far and I doubt they would ever have a national identity crisis.

Down the road but who knows again

Did you, or did you not just have operarions in Baluchistan?

How many operations throughout the years have you had on Sunni Baluch?

As for Azeris, we also know about the racism against Turks in Iranian society and separatism in Southern Azerbaycan.

You are forgetting Azeris in Iran are practically integrated in their society and the current Ayatollah is Azeri a bunch of their monarchs were Azeris and Presidents as well so more bs as usual

You are presenting an image of Iran which is idealistic and not the reality.

Iran may not be perfect country but it could be better run but thats up to the Iranians to do that

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

No. You cannot possibly speak for every Pakistani as an individual.

You know we are just going around in circles. Let's just drop it. I'm not opposed to you, it's some things you say, your Taliban apologism and religion or nothing attitude that I call out. Let's just agree to disagree and stop arguing buddy

I am a Pakistani patriot first of all. If I believe supporting Taliban furthers the interests of my country, then I will push for it.

You are relying on old stereotyping of Taliban to tarnish anyone who may be favorable to them. Do you believe China and Russia are also Talibans?

Did you know Taliban are recruiting Shias and non-Pukhtoons in large numbers? Taliban has become a national unity government for Afghanistan.

Alhamdulilah much better than NDS/NA terrorists of Kabul and Daesh villians, both of whom have made an alliance against Taliban.