We salute Pak fight against terror: Israel

[Secret Service]

Religiosity is a part of foreign policy. It can be harmful if there people use religion for their own interests (generals & politicians). For example Pakistan's decision over Afghan war.

A theory which proved by our intelligence organizations in past & even in present can not be labeled as assumption or conspiracy. You are missing many details and facts while trying to prove your point of view.




My research is enough to stand on particular results, i can also tell you a piece of research find it and read it.

Jewish Intelligence
Lukimson, Peter


More over;

"In an interview with a Russian daily Israel's Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said that "Israel considers Pakistan along with Afghanistan its biggest threat". In the Indo-Pakistan war of 1965 and 1971, Israel provided India with arms and ammunition. Pakistani requests for fresh weapons systems from the US are also fiercely resisted by Indian and Israeli lobbyists. A former pro-Israeli Jewish Indian army officer Lieutenant General J.F.R. Jacob is also celebrated in Israel for his role in the Indo-Pakistan war of 1971 against Pakistan.

In the 1980s, Israel planned a possible attack on Pakistan's bomb capacity. However, due to Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, it became aware of a possible attack prior to any attack occurring. India was warned of a retaliatory attack on its Trombay facilities for giving Israel any assistance. Israeli aircraft were surprised by the presence of an alerted Pakistan Air Force fighter jets and therefore pulled back."


Are you thinking that all these based over conspiracies theories and being emotional put here? did you?




Look for new partners, don't depend over USA.
Again i am saying that there need to draw balance between strategic important countries for our national interests.

I will not support recognizance of Israel.

they know about Army Of KHURASAN with Black Flags

 

[SQ8]

May be from ELTA USA unit, i think they have research/production facilities in USA too

Nope.. The person whose desk I refer to gave me the story on it.. I was pretty astonished myself..
Infact.. it was easier to do that.. than get anything out of the US at the time..since tech like that is pretty regulated in the US..
some poor bloke was caught trying to get a few Pentium 5 processors out in his suitcase once... (somehow the Americans dont figure that stuff like that can eventually be bought from Singapore or Dubai a month or so later anyway).

The world isnt all black and white.. or green and white.. to some here..
I have a small chipset to manage the power supply for a system being used in a commercial project sitting at my desk at home..
made in bangalore.. works nice as well.. Ordered via website.. shipped through Dubai.. np.

 

[T-Faz]

Religiosity is a part of foreign policy. How it could be harmful if there people use religion for their own interests. For example Pakistan's decision over Afghan war.

A theory which proved by our intelligence organizations in past & even in present can not be labeled as assumption or conspiracy. You are missing many details and facts while trying to prove your point of view.

How can religion be a part of your foreign policy, what kind of world you live in where religion, a personal matter is used to dictate foreign diplomacy. This is as lucid as the fact that religion does not have specific answers to what kind of engagement there should be in the modern world. Certain specificities which would require attention in foreign affairs do not have any dictate found with in religious scripture.

Using religion has caused great harm to Pakistan and our current sorry state is an example of that, we let Saudi's fund and develop our religions seminaries, they ended up radicalizing so many people that its a threat to us today. We helped the Arab nations to get up on their feet because of our similar religion and they did not reciprocate when we required help. Religion as a tool has destroyed our country and you are asking how it can be harmful, truly amazing to say the least.

Once again, what theory are you talking about. the theory that ISI head Shuja Pasha stated about UAE supporting Baloch insurgency. You are the ones who is putting across an incoherent point which does not provide any reasoning behind your point of view.

The Pakistani decision to get involved in the Afghan war had nothing to do with religion, it was a chance for Zia's government to legitimize his rule, obtain funding from US, get weapons, training and a chance to make Afghanistan into a satellite state of Pakistan.

This decision gave us the Klashinkov culture, increased drugs use, Islamisation, millions of refugees and uncontrollable militant groups.

My research is enough to stand on particular results, i can also tell you a piece of research find it and read it.

Jewish Intelligence
Lukimson, Peter

Are you thinking that all these based over conspiracies theories and being emotional put here? did you?

What research?

Just writing down a name of some book does not mean that your proof is substantive and factual. Provide a link to your summation, in regards to the quote of the Israeli Foreign Minister, I cannot find a verifiable link, this can easily be taken out of context and the statement is incomplete. As for the Israeli plans to attack Pakistans Nuclear facility, its a known fact that I am aware of.

But nothing came of this plan and the Israeli's discussed the Nuclear issue with Pakistan whereby a decision was made that Israel would not interfere in our nuclear program as long as we do not prove nuclear material to its foes.

What you have given me over here is known to all and thus cannot be called conspiracies. What I was looking for is a source of your original Ben Guiron quote and other such theories you were alluding to.

Countries can have relations but still be hostile, relations are good in terms of economic, scientific and cultural cooperation. We have had a difficult relation with many countries but we recognize them rather then being emotionally immature not acting like as if they do not exist.

Look for new partners, don't depend over USA.
Again i am saying that there need to draw balance between strategic important countries for our national interests.

I will not support recognizance of Israel at this moment.

We should look for new partners and Israel can be a new partner, we could work with them to solve the Palestinian case.

This would be a balance to use against the Arab nations who we do not have gained any benefit from.

Your reasons for not supporting Israel are still unclear to me and seems as if they based or religious emotionalism and not reality.

 

[DV RULES]

Jewish Political Studies Review - Pakistan and Israel

This was the end of any relations between the two countries until Zia's time when both collaborated to defeat the Soviets.

Later the governments of Benazir and Sharif were close to recognizing Israel but political instability meant that nothing could be achieved.

but you forget to concentrate over

In Cairo in March 1952, Zafrullah Khan, who had meanwhile been appointed Pakistan's foreign minister, said he thought Israel and Arab countries ought to reach an agreement, though he emphasized that his country supported the Arabs' demands. For example, the Arabs wanted Israel to alter borders, provide monetary compensation, and make assurances that it had no aggressive intentions.

Jewish Political Studies Review - Pakistan and Israel

This is main reason of Pakistan.

 

[T-Faz]

but you forget to concentrate over

This is main reason of Pakistan.

Time change and so should our policy, Arabs have not really helped us the way he have helped them.

So by looking at the current scenario, we have to decide what we should do?

Either continue our flawed foreign policy where we are seen in a negative light or we can develop an independent, beneficial policy whereby we look out for our own interest and not the Arabs.

 

[BoseDK]

Pakistan should recognise Israel and shred its "frog in the well" type mentality. The world is moving fast in this era of globalisation. Old prophecies must be kept aside.

 

[BATMAN]

Time change and so should our policy, Arabs have not really helped us the way he have helped them.

So by looking at the current scenario, we have to decide what we should do?

Either continue our flawed foreign policy where we are seen in a negative light or we can develop an independent, beneficial policy whereby we look out for our own interest and not the Arabs.

What does Arabs have to do in defining our foreign policy?

As far the world knows it is only US who micro manage Pakistan.
Recent expulsion of our foreign minister is one glaring example.

If any other country we could think of influencing Pakistan's internal and external matters..... is hindustan.
Hindustan will remain the only country in the whole world who's overt defense budget is solely against Pakistan.
It is hindustan who have the biggest network of spies and operatives in Pakistan.
It is RAW which out source their intelligence and terror network in Pakistan to other anti Pakistan states.

If Israel has put in good words we shall say THANKS and If Israel want to discuss we should welcome.....
If P.Musharraf can shake hand with Indian P.M. than holding Israeli hand for us is no shame.

No country in the world can hurt Pakistan without the support of hindustan and its network.

 

[BoseDK]

If any other country we could think of influencing Pakistan's internal and external matters..... is hindustan.
Hindustan will remain the only country in the whole world who's overt defense budget is solely against Pakistan.
It is hindustan who have the biggest network of spies and operatives in Pakistan.
It is RAW which out source their intelligence and terror network in Pakistan to other anti Pakistan states.

If Israel has put in good words we shall say THANKS and If Israel want to discuss we should welcome.....
If P.Musharraf can shake hand with Indian P.M. than holding Israeli hand for us is no shame.

No country in the world can hurt Pakistan without the support of hindustan and its network.

You had to bring India into this, didnt you. hahaha I am amazed at your super duper claims. Do you have any proof of that or have you been too much into "close" company of Zaid baba.

 

[BoseDK]

Somehow offtopic and pure distilled bull-sh!t rants about India, in a pakistan-Israel thread become so much relevant?

 

[The HBS Guy]

Hindustan will remain the only country in the whole world who's overt defense budget is solely against Pakistan.

Dementia at best.

You seriously think you're worth spending $36.08bn???

Quit overestimating your nuisance value.

You're not worth spending $36.08bn.

 

[DV RULES]

How can religion be a part of your foreign policy, what kind of world you live in where religion, a personal matter is used to dictate foreign diplomacy. This is as lucid as the fact that religion does not have specific answers to what kind of engagement there should be in the modern world. Certain specificities which would require attention in foreign affairs do not have any dictate found with in religious scripture.

Using religion has caused great harm to Pakistan and our current sorry state is an example of that, we let Saudi's fund and develop our religions seminaries, they ended up radicalizing so many people that its a threat to us today. We helped the Arab nations to get up on their feet because of our similar religion and they did not reciprocate when we required help. Religion as a tool has destroyed our country and you are asking how it can be harmful, truly amazing to say the least.

I am surprised to know from you that how could be a religious factor part of foreign policy!

When constitution based over religious ideology then how will separate foreign policy from religious fact? Whole government system including international relation keep their link with religious status of country.

Why you are mixing religion with radicalization? Why you blame Arab countries in radicalization when incompetence of Pakistan to control external influence, who forced Pakistan not regulate these aspects according to his need & political planes? Even interesting for me when you saying that religion is destroying our country it means you are rejecting ideology of Pakistan & got into hypnosis of western ideology that you have no concern with fundamental constitutional importance. We have our own priorities and regional responsibilities. Religion is not tool to destroy but it is our inability & incapabilities in securing or controlling institutions, media & political activities from this flow.

Once again, what theory are you talking about. the theory that ISI head Shuja Pasha stated about UAE supporting Baloch insurgency. You are the ones who is putting across an incoherent point which does not provide any reasoning behind your point of view.

I was not about shuja pasha and there was enough intelligence information available in record to prove Israel involvement so i am not the one who will repeat again and again same story & reports for your Highness what on record or not, i think you are informed enough.

The Pakistani decision to get involved in the Afghan war had nothing to do with religion, it was a chance for Zia's government to legitimize his rule, obtain funding from US, get weapons, training and a chance to make Afghanistan into a satellite state of Pakistan.

Sorry i was wrong that you have real idea how religion is involved by our generals to stimulate Afghan Jihad and even what there happened in reality. (Off topic)

This decision gave us the Klashinkov culture, increased drugs use, Islamisation, millions of refugees and uncontrollable militant groups.

Quite interesting you know results of this war but unaware which force pushed all this into borders.

What research?

Just writing down a name of some book does not mean that your proof is substantive and factual. Provide a link to your summation, in regards to the quote of the Israeli Foreign Minister, I cannot find a verifiable link, this can easily be taken out of context and the statement is incomplete. As for the Israeli plans to attack Pakistans Nuclear facility, its a known fact that I am aware of.

Well, but you want that i must believe over your link, not fair.

I refereed you book giving idea what main targets pointed by Israel and how they went to realize they think. So Up to you.
If you aware of raeli plans to attack Pakistans Nuclear facility then what make you close eye & support this idea despite there is no guaranty of security & non aggressive assurance?

But nothing came of this plan and the Israeli's discussed the Nuclear issue with Pakistan whereby a decision was made that Israel would not interfere in our nuclear program as long as we do not prove nuclear material to its foes.

and we have to believe!? in case of Israel????????

Countries can have relations but still be hostile, relations are good in terms of economic, scientific and cultural cooperation. We have had a difficult relation with many countries but we recognize them rather then being emotionally immature not acting like as if they do not exist.

We should look for new partners and Israel can be a new partner, we could work with them to solve the Palestinian case.

This would be a balance to use against the Arab nations who we do not have gained any benefit from.

Your reasons for not supporting Israel are still unclear to me and seems as if they based or religious emotionalism and not reality.

bold part is place where you want to reach. Look like world is ended for us and we can get nothing if we will not establish diplomatic relations with Israel!!!!
Red part: we can't say that we got nothing from Arab states, totally injustice. What could be balance where our decision over Israel depends over our main Arab partners?

Blue part: O come one did you think that my non supporting position bases over emotional & religious. Joke for me.

Being a true Pakistani i only want a security assurance and harmless attitude of Israel toward my country & past ever play important role in establishing relation so this past of Israel force to think even million times in stepping up toward diplomatic ties, Yes if they will give us guaranty & prove that they have no negative agenda toward Pakistan then WE WILL THINK AND BRING UNDER CONSIDERATION
btw we have relations with other western countries too.

 

[BATMAN]

Dementia at best.

You seriously think you're worth spending $36.08bn???

Quit overestimating your nuisance value.

You're not worth spending $36.08bn.

If you think you are waisting your money than your govt. does not seem to agree with you and essentially all this money you mentioned is being spent in keeping your armed forces at and around Pakistan borders.

On the other hand your covert budget of RAW is half spent on bad mouthing Islam on web and half in buying suicide bombers from northern alliance.

Where as our value is concerned... a lot many states are spending much in waging covert overt wars against Pakistan.

 

[BATMAN]

You had to bring India into this, didnt you. hahaha I am amazed at your super duper claims. Do you have any proof of that or have you been too much into "close" company of Zaid baba.

Yes and those who equate Arabs as enemies of Pakistan must have been sitting with RAW baba.

See don't like the bitter pill for themself... which they would happily hand to others.

 

[Desert Fox]

You had to bring India into this, didnt you. hahaha I am amazed at your super duper claims. Do you have any proof of that or have you been too much into "close" company of Zaid baba.

Yes we do, 1971 is a good enough example to prove RAW's intentions! If RAW was involved in destabilizing east Pakistan in 1971 then there is no doubt that it is involved today as well!

Don't act like India (the enemy of Pakistan) would want the best for Pakistan!

However do you have proof that Pakistan and isi were involved in Mumbai attacks other than your conspiracy theories?

 

[BATMAN]

Pakistan should recognise Israel and shred its "frog in the well" type mentality. The world is moving fast in this era of globalisation. Old prophecies must be kept aside.

It need two hands to clap, so shall Israel need to shed its unfounded fears of Pakistan.

The open hearted response on this thread proves it is not Pakistanis who are 'frogs in the well' mentality.

Do you really think you can carry out similar talk on Israelis or Indian forums? just try to post same thread on Indian forums for a test sake!!!

I also see no reasons for thumbs up to such an openly unfair blame.