We salute Pak fight against terror: Israel

[BATMAN]

Religion is a personal matter, the way it has been used in government policy within Pakistan has been extremely detrimental to our country where we are hanging by the thread against the onslaught of religious extremism.

T-Faz... you seem to be alien to Pakistan... a person who form his opinion on daily feed from Hindustani times news.

Which govt. are you blaming here?
Which policy are you referring to?

 

[muse]

Batman -- was your argument or position furthered by launching into T-Faz??

You like religion in everything including govt policy - great- happy??

You had a great position, that it takes two hands to clap - so why muck up that position with ideology?

 

[T-Faz]

T-Faz... you seem to be alien to Pakistan... a person who form his opinion on daily feed from Hindustani times news.

Which govt. are you blaming here?
Which policy are you referring to?

Alien, don't know about that, but it must be a new theory floating around.

Also, I don't even know Hindustani Times, let alone read it but what has that got to with this anyway.

I am blaming all the government which have used religion to further their agenda, the policy of using religion to legitimize their rules, to fight foreign wars, to use it as a tool in whatever capacity it can be used.

 

[SQ8]

Alien, don't know about that, but it must be a new theory floating around.

Also, I don't even know Hindustani Times, let alone read it but what has that got to with this anyway.

I am blaming all the government which have used religion to further their agenda, the policy of using religion to legitimize their rules, to fight foreign wars, to use it as a tool in whatever capacity it can be used.

In a nutshell.. God forbid...they used our religion like a 2bit cheap ....

But then again.. on a philosophical level.. I would argue.. what they used and what they promoted.. has nothing to do with Islam anyway.. I think we should call this new "religion" .. "fitna" .. I think is right word for it..
but that is another discussion for another thread...

Did they mention the the Afghan fighters that went on Jihad crying "Allah o Akbar".. used bullets and guns stolen and collected from Arabs that were defeated who also cried "Allah-o Akbar" and went for Jihad in the 73 war?

That the same Arab's that financed the Madressah's that bred the cancer eating us today also had stakes in the hard rock cafe?

 

[BATMAN]

Alien, don't know about that, but it must be a new theory floating around.

Also, I don't even know Hindustani Times, let alone read it but what has that got to with this anyway.

I am blaming all the government which have used religion to further their agenda, the policy of using religion to legitimize their rules, to fight foreign wars, to use it as a tool in whatever capacity it can be used.

Since you are clearly reluctant to getting to the point.
Let me guess with foreign war you meant the Russian war???
What alternative approaches, you may have preferred?

Keep in mind we neither had finance and neither did we had weapons to halt the march of Russian bear.

Every resistance to invasion in Islamic state has religious angle to it and this is very legitimate.
What more do you see religious in our society?

Some people are reporting Pakistan is nothing close to being religious while you are stating religon is a state policy!!! which is a news to a Pakistani like me!
hence I asked which state policy and you refereed to undescribed foreign wars!!

 

[BATMAN]

In a nutshell.. God forbid...they used our religion like a 2bit cheap ....

But then again.. on a philosophical level.. I would argue.. what they used and what they promoted.. has nothing to do with Islam anyway.. I think we should call this new "religion" .. "fitna" .. I think is right word for it..
but that is another discussion for another thread...

Did they mention the the Afghan fighters that went on Jihad crying "Allah o Akbar".. used bullets and guns stolen and collected from Arabs that were defeated who also cried "Allah-o Akbar" and went for Jihad in the 73 war?

That the same Arab's that financed the Madressah's that bred the cancer eating us today also had stakes in the hard rock cafe?

Again unwarranted narrations... no idea what you are talking here.

Some religious outfits (namely; lashkar jhangvi) are totally financed and engineered by indians but our intelligence agencies failed to understand the conspiracy... simply because agencies were used by politicians as personal services.

 

[DV RULES]

Religion is a personal matter, the way it has been used in government policy within Pakistan has been extremely detrimental to our country where we are hanging by the thread against the onslaught of religious extremism.

Our constitution is partly based on a man made religious ideology and it has been one that has negated our country in every aspect of life. So we should revert back to the way Pakistan ought to be and that is limited or interference of religion in state decisions.

I am mixing religion with radicalism because its religious radicalism that we are currently facing in Pakistan. Its not the incompetence of Pakistan Government but the foreign policy itself that allowed the Arabs to spread their ideology with in our borders. Simply put, if we did not have such a policy, we would be able to do what is required, keep external influence limited within our borders. The ideology of Pakistan is not a quasi-religious state and should be modern Muslim state but that it is not.
Religion itself has no role to play in the political sphere, similarly it should not be ascribed to a state policy because if it did like Iran, a nations stands isolated and alone.

While i respect individual point of view so let me say that;
I have guess that you fed up from current situation of religious affairs in society. One of reason actively playing in your posts. Of course religion is personal matter and on individual level we have not to discuss religion, but where discussion on national level then we can't say and step away that religion is person matter.

Pakistan came into existence on Islamic ideology an in whole world Pakistan & Israel two states came into existence on religious ideology and you know it (no need to repeat). You also know, how religion play active role in our social, political and government affairs and i think you will not deny. To eradicate religion from politics unachievable in our country as deepest religious penetration. You know how in USSR communist separate religion even from social affairs? Close all religious points/places. It was a crime to hold religious sign in your pocket or to wear it. They design society where religion is eliminated and there were even no role in family relation. Yes this was communism. Today after more than 70 years generation developed, for them religion doesn't an essential part of life, so as in politics it is normal to think beyond the restrictions of religion. You must agree that this current social or political attitude didn't develop in days. May be you like such attitude?
Interesting that current government make ever thing to re establish connection between religion & politics (government), in simple meanings they want to show christian oriented society. & we (not me) in reverse mode.

Jewish, they proud to be Jewish, none of matter how their religion is pure or original, there are also so many man made (more than 60%) religious laws but they didn't speak against religion then why we?
You have to correct you dictionary that radicalization only in our religion but it injected for political & for international geostrategic purposes specially pointed against Islam. Where our Islam is most peaceful and friendly religion where God itself declared that there is no strictness in Islam so question to you why there need to show yourself or use term MODERATE MUSLIM or MODERN ISLAMIC STATE?????????

Need to review our foreign policy is not only your think but my and many other Pakistani also think same like that.

What Pakistan facing our own mistakes, i discussed it in a thread (Hero of Afghan war General Akhtar Abdul Rehman) and i will give you link.

So your point of view is obviously biased as your religious leaning is quite clear from the onset.

Excuse me, It not the sin if i have leaning to my religion, the religion who preach peace, patience & tolerance.

Even in Russia a Muslim can say itself a Muslim openly wear Islamic sign but i saw so many Israeli origin Jews who didn't wear David star because they face hate from people.

You only gave me a couple of old facts but nothing more for recent times and I am not informed of any Israeli involvement in recent years. I can assume from your statement that there isn't any information that can support your argument.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/91906-foreign-espionage-network-pakistan.html

I hope you find what you required from me but still if there rose any question then you can ask again directly or by PM.

It was an idea by both out military establishment and the Americans to use religions to defeat the Soviets, that decision was very wrong.

Which force was it?

You gave answer in your own line.

I gave you a link from a credible source, you gave me brief text without any source.

You called it credible source? What guaranty that there hasn't any extra addition?

My entire point is that with diplomatic relations, the GoP will be privy to more information being channeled through Israel and thus we would be in a batter position to deal with them/

Let for some time we hold our ties in privy mode, then bilateral and then afterword.

What did we get from the Arab states?

And why does our decision depend upon our Arab partners, we are an independent nation and we should so what is best for our nation.

Don't cover all economical, industrial, social progressive aids and military funds in dust of radicalization. Once again as you stated that we are an independent state so we had and have total right not to let this destructive forces let into our body and we have to filtrate every help, aid.

Yes, when you concern over regional relations & strategies you must put in mind that Arabic states are on Israel's front and we as Islamic state will look first for our Muslim states in case of choice. As we also dependent on Arab states in some percentage of our resources.

Seems like it.

I am Pakistani & by religion Muslim, believer of Islam which preach humanity, peace & patience. It is enough, we have not to criticize others as we have no right for this.

So being a true Pakistani you want to let the Arabs harm our nation but not open relations with other countries who we can first discuss all issues with.

I already answered you about Arabs in above & as true Pakistani i don't want to create 10 enemies at cost of one friend. As responsible regional country i ever prefer Pakistan to take step with other close relation countries. In collaboration, as company.

 

[Mutee]

Religion is a personal matter only if you are living in another country not when the countries name u live in Islamic republic of Pakistan so it's not a personal matter Islam is the only thing we need as our national agenda I think it's very childish when you live in a country that was made in the name of Islam and say religion is a personal matter look what the fraudulent system of west which we have imposed on ourselves has done go this great country of ours and frankly I am very annoyed with the liberal extremists here when someone is killed ppl here start taking very liberal positions why do you guys lose your voices when our fellow Muslims die in drone attacks please condemn that too !!!!

 

[DV RULES]

Alien, don't know about that, but it must be a new theory floating around.

Also, I don't even know Hindustani Times, let alone read it but what has that got to with this anyway.

I am blaming all the government which have used religion to further their agenda, the policy of using religion to legitimize their rules, to fight foreign wars, to use it as a tool in whatever capacity it can be used.

Oh yes, something came out in your post what i wanted to listen from you.

 

[muse]

Pakistan came into existence on Islamic ideology

Recall Napak-istan?? Recall Kafir e Azam? and some say Pakistan " came into existence on Islamic ideology", an outright lie. No one, regardless of how the so called "religious" try and lie about it, will forget, Napak-istan and no one is goig to forget Kafir e Azam -- so chill, make arguments of reason, if you try and falsify history, you only end up hurting your position.

 

[Mutee]

No one agrees with ppl who called our country napakistan ok but yes it was created in name of Islam and liberals extremists have taken over us by using Taliban as an example for extremism they are extremists but I don't find them any worse than these extremists who have adopted Islam and mullah bashing as a fashion and as sign of intellect

 

[SQ8]

Again unwarranted narrations... no idea what you are talking here.

Some religious outfits (namely; lashkar jhangvi) are totally financed and engineered by indians but our intelligence agencies failed to understand the conspiracy... simply because agencies were used by politicians as personal services.

I cant argue with you here..
you have taken the bait hook line and sinker..

A similar approach might also say my appendix inflamed due to tainted water planted in the Nestle factory by India.. Nestle being a subsidiary of the Jews off course.

I give up

 

[DV RULES]

That the same Arab's that financed the Madressah's that bred the cancer eating us today also had stakes in the hard rock cafe?

Not agree with you.

Control your boundaries and keep check who is coming in, where, why, when & departure. you will not face those problems stated above.
Very general & common principle, i don't know why every one pointing his gun on other side when your own doors are open & insecure.

 

[Mutee]

liberalism is the cancer that is eating us !!!! and west implanted that in our body cells It's not the Arabs they are our fellow Muslim brothers

 

[DV RULES]

Recall Napak-istan?? Recall Kafir e Azam? and some say Pakistan " came into existence on Islamic ideology", an outright lie. No one, regardless of how the so called "religious" try and lie about it, will forget, Napak-istan and no one is goig to forget Kafir e Azam -- so chill, make arguments of reason, if you try and falsify history, you only end up hurting your position.

Ok then you tell me which ideology worked?

My arguments well known to me and i know what i am talking about.