Used F16's - EDA 50 ~ 100 Available

[araz]

1) Was your brothers last name "Awan"
2) If he was at DMW, ask him who was "Bhagwan"

No not Awan..
Sorry but this forum is not the place to reveal identities of people so I will end it at that.
A

 

[Khafee]

No not Awan..
Sorry but this forum is not the place to reveal identities of people so I will end it at that.
A

Your loss. He might have been able to confirm, who I actually am.

 

[araz]

Your loss. He might have been able to confirm, who I actually am.

Perhaps perhaps not. You know something Khafee the internet is a beast in its own right. Here a lot of people write things behind the veil of secrecy. I know you are senior enough to know a lot of things about UAE armed forces but I also happen to know a couple of retired Air Commodores are here or have been here. So there maybe many important people behind the scene who write and educate us all. Beyond that I respect each and every member irrespective of who they are as my upbringing and religion tells me to do so. So it does not matter to me who people are and if you want to introduce yourself to me sed a private message and I will be happy to know a friend in the UAE.
REGARDS
A

 

[ghazi768]

army has offensive mindset with two strike cores
navy is going for offensive punch of strong sub
its airforce who is lacking the strength to do so

Your impression is not correct, and PAF history is there as a proof. In both wars, it went on offensive as much as it can.

There are two sides to plans/operations. Strategical and tactical, the two strike corps you mentioned of Pakistan army with past plans actually meant a strategically defensive while tactically offensive operations, the same was the case for PAF.

 

[Rocky rock]

How about UAE Block 60 if they care to sell a squadron or two.

 

[Raider 21]

How about UAE Block 60 if they care to sell a squadron or two.

High chances are that won't happen...yet. They've fielded the jets as of almost 12 years ago.

 

[Rocky rock]

High chances are that won't happen...yet. They've fielded the jets as of almost 12 years ago.

But they are very fast in filling the technology gap they won't keep them for long.

 

[MastanKhan]

For another thread - but you have raised a very interesting point, how exactly would China and KSA react to a cold start attack on Pakistan.

Best Regards

Hi,

Telling a soldier what to do is absurd---but I can guarantee you---that with the change in combat that has come about in the last few years---and specially how the isis struck at a lightening speed---neither would china---and nor would saudi arabia have any time if India struck out with cold start.

Old men in uniform with stars on their shoulders---they move at a very slow conventional pace---because that is what they have been used to---that is what has worked in the past---and that is what they will depend on in the future---.

You cannot teach old dogs new tricks---you can change some of their habbits---but you cannot change their thought process---.

Case in point Gen Raheel Sharif---Gen Kiyani---Gen Musharraf---extremely conventional retaliation against the terrorists---.

So---basically---once the opponent crosses the threshold where it does not care of the strike back---the results would be favoring it.

Now as for the thinking if the war could continue for a week and a haf or 2 weeks---not with the current Paf inventory---3 days---4 days at the most---.

Now let us see---if with 150 JF17---a 125 F16's and another 100 J10 C/ D's---the game will totally change in pakistan's favor---if you add a LR Sam to the equation as well.

What do you think of the spool up time for the SU30 ?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Regarding stupidity of F-16 purchase with prior knowledge and experience of sanctions, my subject was PAF not you.

Our financial problems, they are not going to go away anywhere as long as we keep finding billions in politicians houses and we keep letting them walk free instead of roasting them alive with their whole families.

In my opinion (and I may be totally wrong on that) Affordability issue is not even a factor, or relevant, if it is, It MUST NOT be. We were not even able to finance our nuclear program but our leadership saw the need (for survival) and they managed it one way or the other, we were not able to finance the missile research and all, but again people at the top saw the need and we managed that, Pakistan is not a poor country, there are billions of dollars stacked away in our politicians houses, it is not difficult to recover 30/40 billion in hard cash with the help of one sharp spear (to shove up the arse) and one sharp machete (to chop off the heads) of each and every single member of these corrupt politicians. Financing 100 J10's is not difficult, I would happily kill 100/1000 politicians to save the millions and the country. No price is ever too high to spend on saving the honour of the country.


Regarding the solution, how many J10's we could have bought in the same amount that we paid for block 52's? and how many more we could have acquired on long-term loan is anybody's guess.

Regarding what J10 brings to the table? same capability as F-16 less the sanctions at a lower price at lower maintenance cost, at lower operating cost, with possibility of local manufacturing/assembling, gaining technical knowhow, using that knowhow in Thunder production, reducing average cost of Thunders due to higher utilization of manufacturing facilities, commonality of armament with thunder, selection/variety of armament, higher numbers (2~3 squadrons instead of 1), better range than thunder, better load then thunder, AESA, IRST, political freedom from USA, better leverage in negotiations, etc., etc....

In no way I am putting down Falcons, they are amazing machines with great capability, but if that "great" capability is not guaranteed (due to sanctions or shortage of spares and armaments) during a conflict then that peacetime capability is useless for us, and all the investment and training is also wasted, and it would be a lot better to get J10 with 80/90 percent guaranteed capability. In a layman terms I would prefer a sling shot for my defence than a gun that I can't fire in time of need.

If you think that the decision to buy the 16s was stupid take it up with the PAF officials.As to the logic of repeat buy I merely pointed out the reasoning behind the repeat buy. Perhaps you are oblivious of the financial difficulties which Our country faces. The sort of decsions you want are on the books but there is no money to back it with. So rather than sitting on your lofty seat and pontificating come out with how you will organize the finances to buy the planes which are needed.
One of the reason why we buy the 16s is the ease in embedding a plane within the established infrastructure. If you think this is treasonous take it up with the Rulers and money managers of our country.
Wiser people than you have prepared and read the scenario much better than you and are aware of our needs. If you think you can do better then come out with solid facts as to how.
Alot of countries buy from the US and for very good reasons. You get the best bang for the buck. We have internet warriors harping on ad nauseum abourt kill switches and how they will cripple the fleet of 16s which PAF has in a war against india. I have alluded at length what the sanctions are going to be and why I feel the kill switches will not be utilized by US in a war against India where the US armoury goes up against the French and the Russians. Do you guys honestly think the US will let go of its biggest advertisement campaign on earth to shoot itself in its own foot.
Has anyone ever considered that the PAF is not aware of these alleged kill switches and might not have taken steps to remedy the cause if any??? I already know you have not alluded to them but the stupidity that you point out of buying repeatedly from them makes me allude to it.
Also while you are at irt ask yourself whom will you buy the next 4.5 generation platform from and how you will pay for it? In our wave of condemnation perhaps the Gurus and their followers would like to point out which 4.5 generation platform is available and at a cost we can afford. Why do the followers of the Sage condemning PAF of treason and criminal negligence not consider the options that we have to hand NOW and then reanalyze the situation and see why PAF sits quietly and waits. What do we wait for ?
There is a lot in her e for you to think about and ponder on. Please contemplate and then formulate a reasonable response and then we can debate further.
regards
A


As to the last point it did not do so regarding the decision to finance the 16s sale subsidised with FMF. This is where the problems came in.
The EDA falcos ar e a bonus and a carrot which is dangled in front of us. They are needed but perhaps not as badly as before sothe green rabbit is not biting itas quickly as before. We will go for it but only at the right price( the price being monetary as well as other behind the scene demands). This is where the game is in my humble opinion
A

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

On contrary, I would not be comfortable with the "Sling Shot" Analogy
And I really don't think there is any issue with purchase from US

If it was me to choose

• I would be sending delegate to get 30-50 F16 A/B , with futuer discussions to upgrade these to MLU standard with Turkey's assistance
  
• Block 3 would be awaited as planned (Our own Project)
  
• We will have open discussion for high class Fighter Jet (Typhoon , J-31 , J10B)

Need

150 - F16 (Various Blocks), we got room for another 40-50 planes
------- or 80 F16 C/D and 70 J10B

150 - JF-17 Thunder (Block 1, Block 2, Block 3)
70- Typhoons / J-31

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possible Retirement Mirage / F-7PG at future date when it is appropriate

 

[MastanKhan]

Your impression is not correct, and PAF history is there as a proof. In both wars, it went on offensive as much as it can.

There are two sides to plans/operations. Strategical and tactical, the two strike corps you mentioned of Pakistan army with past plans actually meant a strategically defensive while tactically offensive operations, the same was the case for PAF.

Hi,

In 65 they had superior aircraft---in 71---they had superior WVR missile---.

The last war was 46 years ago---.

In 2008 when the SU30 flew over pakistan---Paf was a chicken---only thing it could do was just take a picture of it from behind---even though it was well inside pakistan territory---it was scared to shoot it down.

Buckbuckbuckbuck----cockadoodledoo---Paf chickened out---even though they had to revenge for the Atlantique---.

 

[Thorough Pro]

That is an assumption, we have never seen that happening or not happening, we have never seen two nuclear armed countries go to war. the problem with India-Pakistan scenario is extreme paranoia, extreme distrust, and absolute hate for each other and being next-door neighbours with very little reaction time, no one would be in a position to exercise restrain, it would be a matter of survival or death, who fires first and most would have a better chance of survival. That is why I am totally against our strategy/doctrine of using tactical nukes to stop invading armoured columns, because that would invite a response and that is a failed strategy. Once we decide we have to use tactical nukes we MUST be prepared to fire a fist salvo of a minimum of 200 strategic nukes on all their 1st line targets.

You don't slap the opponent and wait for his response to decide whether to punch or not. Once you decided to have a go start with a knee and then don't stop until he is down and out. War is not a game of chess anymore, it's all out till one is out for good.

Nukes and Strategic Command Structures, are designed in such a manner, that they would be the last to go. Not first. Pakistan has focused on it's BM's being road mobile for a reason, so the probability of them being wiped out 100%, is well understood by any enemy, and is one reason why a direct confrontation, has not happened as of yet. Although, given the lunatics that surround Pakistan, should have happened long ago.

 

[MastanKhan]

That is an assumption, we have never seen that happening or not happening, we have never seen two nuclear armed countries go to war. the problem with India-Pakistan scenario is extreme paranoia, extreme distrust, and absolute hate for each other and being next-door neighbours with very little reaction time, no one would be in a position to exercise restrain, it would be a matter of survival or death, who fires first and most would have a better chance of survival. That is why I am totally against our strategy/doctrine of using tactical nukes to stop invading armoured columns, because that would invite a response and that is a failed strategy. Once we decide we have to use tactical nukes we MUST be prepared to fire a fist salvo of a minimum of 200 strategic nukes on all their 1st line targets.

You don't slap the opponent and wait for his response to decide whether to punch or not. Once you decided to have a go start with a knee and then don't stop until he is down and out. War is not a game of chess anymore, it's all out till one is out for good.

Hi,

Thank you for your post---.

I really don't understand why Pakistan uses nuc threats----. With a 5 billion dollars investment---it can have enough aircraft and naval ships that it can stand its own ground in a conventional war---and take the cold start into India.

I keep saying---there is an element of cowardice in the PAF---.

The army---it has a cold start doctrine---its troops are ready for a deep lightening strike---the navy has a strike capability for whatever it is worth---.

The missile force has its units---the only thing needed is the air force---and Pakistan air force is not in the arena---.

There is only one reason the air force has not shown any initiative---and that is none other than cowardice to fly into indian skies---to dominate from the indian air space.

 

[Thorough Pro]

I don't agree, there is no cowardice, just a strategy based on resources. PAF can try to venture it out in to Indian skies with heavy losses due to them having numerical and qualitative advantage in radar coverage, aircraft and air defence with home advantage. PAF can fight a better war and inflict more damage to the intruders within it's own skies, once the Indians lose a big chunk of their attacking parties they will lose confidence and then PAF can venture out. If you give PAF 100 more attack fighters (F-16's or J-10's) they can easily take out 25/30 percent of their assets on the ground, after that its even field and luck would favour the brave/daring

Hi,

Thank you for your post---.

I really don't understand why Pakistan uses nuc threats----. With a 5 billion dollars investment---it can have enough aircraft and naval ships that it can stand its own ground in a conventional war---and take the cold start into India.

I keep saying---there is an element of cowardice in the PAF---.

The army---it has a cold start doctrine---its troops are ready for a deep lightening strike---the navy has a strike capability for whatever it is worth---.

The missile force has its units---the only thing needed is the air force---and Pakistan air force is not in the arena---.

There is only one reason the air force has not shown any initiative---and that is none other than cowardice to fly into indian skies---to dominate from the indian air space.

 

[Falcon26]

Hi,

In 65 they had superior aircraft---in 71---they had superior WVR missile---.

The last war was 46 years ago---.

In 2008 when the SU30 flew over pakistan---Paf was a chicken---only thing it could do was just take a picture of it from behind---even though it was well inside pakistan territory---it was scared to shoot it down.

Buckbuckbuckbuck----cockadoodledoo---Paf chickened out---even though they had to revenge for the Atlantique---.

When did IAF SU-30 venture into Pakistan & PAF was afraid to engage? Can you post evidence and not hyperbole?