UAE, Pakistan and Mirage 2000-9s

[Sinnerman108]

It will be stupid to buy those due to several reasons.

If I may say.

Mirage 2000 in an excellent platform, and it is respected everywhere.

however it is everything that it was designed to be, long time ago.
It's evolution has stopped;
all what is left, is a closed production line, and a tremendous per hour flight cost.
TREMENDOUS ...

And after spending that money, we will get no where, by 2020, everyone will be inducting
new class of weapons, while we will be finding ways to make stupid purchases last longer.

That same amount of money, spent on JF17, will lead to an industry and expertise which will be OURS
and thus, we must invest in it.
It will evolve, it will improve, it will go forward.

 

[Sugarcane]

Hi,

What Paf wants and what Pakistan and pakistan's military needs are two different things---and that has been made very clear by the procurements of Paf---.

I am very familiar with the mindset of Pak military and more so of the air force---.

They want Aesa now---they want IRST now---but 12 years ago when the change was very evident---they cared less about IRST----.

And 5 years ago---they cared less about Aesa---and even many a posters here who claimed to be close to Paf had the same thoughts.

And as @gambit had written in reply to them something like this---" once you know about aesa and use it and see what it can do---you are never going back " and these same guys or " GUY ' was giving him reasoning that won't be the case.

My good man---you are clueless as to how illiterate Paf is in matters of defense---.

The difference between me and you is----that you are over awed by them---you have to ask them to learn---and me---I can look them in the eye and tell them that they have fckd up---they are frigging morons---that they have deceived the country---in their arrogance---they have sold out the interests of the country for dollars and cushy after retirement jobs---.

You youngmen are so much brain washed that it is amazing----you see for yourself that you do not have adequate number of aircraft---you know that Paf is highly corrupt and yet you men come here and put forward excuses for them that there are no funds---.

You---young men try hard to cover and protect every blunder and excuse given by the Paf----as if it was some personal property that you might get inheritence out of.

What do you think the Paf general would tell me---about sanctions---of the 90's---.

I can easily expose his lies---he tells me about graft on the M2K purchase by Benazir---I can take care of that as well---he will tell me about 9/11---I can counter that as well and talk about the 4 years of drama of jumping from one aircraft to another---.

Pappy---what is your air force officer going to tell me---unless and until he admits that he has committed treason against the interests of the state by not getting the much needed weapons system in a timely manner---not reacting to the news of missiles boats coming towards karachi---not offering to help at Longewala---amongst a few---other than that---he has nothing much to say---.



Hi,

That is what I have been saying for a longtime---. Another aircraft has to be inducted before the 5th gen aircraft---. A medium to heavy aircraft.

Add the loss of millions of dollars on base attack. I still can't digest that they can't defend the bases than boosting about how they have get one bird repaired in less cost.

 

[ziaulislam]

all of these discussions if held within our ground situation which is no available funds what so ever means that PAF will not go anything else besides jf-17 which i think is a very reasonable decision, we should learn from what swedish did

mirage 2000 will only come if its available within next 5 years at a very cheap price in absence of any available f-16 at cheaper price and presumably further delay of next gen fighter

none of these conditions seem to be fullfilled

right now, i would be happy if somehow PAF can just keep its thunder rolling without delay to lack of funds

 

[Wolf]

If I may say.

Mirage 2000 in an excellent platform, and it is respected everywhere.

however it is everything that it was designed to be, long time ago.
It's evolution has stopped;
all what is left, is a closed production line, and a tremendous per hour flight cost.
TREMENDOUS ...

And after spending that money, we will get no where, by 2020, everyone will be inducting
new class of weapons, while we will be finding ways to make stupid purchases last longer.

That same amount of money, spent on JF17, will lead to an industry and expertise which will be OURS
and thus, we must invest in it.
It will evolve, it will improve, it will go forward.

Mirage 2000-9 will stay relevant until indians phase out their mirages permanently and i dont see indians doing that any time soon. Plus, nobody will give you 5th generation fighter except Chinese and even if by some stroke of luck, PAF is offered a 5th gen. american/european/russian platform, PAF dont have the money to get them. So, what are we arguing about?

 

[CriticalThought]

I sense dejection and hopelessness on this thread. Here is my view of the world:

1. With the JF-17 Block 2, we are getting a solid base of airframes that can be later updated with latest avionics from the Block 3 program. No idea if Block 3 also incorporates structural changes and a new engine, but obviously, these would be hard to back port to Block 2. That said, in a world of BVR engagements and EW, we don't need an entirely new platform. We need the latest gadgetry that can be accommodated on JF-17. If a certain combination cannot be accommodated on one because of light weight, then network-centric capabilities can allow two or more fighters to band together and provide the capability.

2. Meanwhile, that lack of funds is being addressed by making a dedicated effort to export our technology. I don't know why this important area doesn't come up in discussions. This is a matter of pride and elation because it means we will have funds available for use.

3. Using the funds earned through exports, plus an upsurging economy, we should be in a position to buy the latest technology available on the market.

I am amazed how some posters lose the plot and go into a vicious cycle of hopelessness. Now let's see some positive posts on this thread.

 

[帅的一匹]

I sense dejection and hopelessness on this thread. Here is my view of the world:

1. With the JF-17 Block 2, we are getting a solid base of airframes that can be later updated with latest avionics from the Block 3 program. No idea if Block 3 also incorporates structural changes and a new engine, but obviously, these would be hard to back port to Block 2. That said, in a world of BVR engagements and EW, we don't need an entirely new platform. We need the latest gadgetry that can be accommodated on JF-17. If a certain combination cannot be accommodated on one because of light weight, then network-centric capabilities can allow two or more fighters to band together and provide the capability.

2. Meanwhile, that lack of funds is being addressed by making a dedicated effort to export our technology. I don't know why this important area doesn't come up in discussions. This is a matter of pride and elation because it means we will have funds available for use.

3. Using the funds earned through exports, plus an upsurging economy, we should be in a position to buy the latest technology available on the market.

I am amazed how some posters lose the plot and go into a vicious cycle of hopelessness. Now let's see some positive posts on this thread.

I think the most important is PAF shall send its personnel to train on J10 on a regular basis. If there is a war break out, and depletion of squadrons force. At lest PAF should know how to fly J10A/b/c to fight. No to offend, PAF is very short-sighted, all they care is some delicate gadgets, they don't quite concern what they gonna face in real war, they are severely outnumbered by IAF.

 

[CriticalThought]

I think the most important is PAF shall send its personnel to train on J10 on a regular basis. If there is a war break out, and depletion of squadrons force. At lest PAF should know how to fly J10A/b/c to fight. No to offend, PAF is very short-sighted, all they care is some delicate gadgets, they don't quite concern what they gonna face in real war, they are severely outnumbered by IAF.

Totally agree. We should have joint exercises between PAF and PLAAF on a regular basis incorporating the interaction between all assets (fighters, tankers, bombers etc) and the pilots should cross-train frequently as well.

 

[帅的一匹]

If I were the air chief of the PAF, I will immediately go for buy/ lease 3 squadron of J10b. More second hands F16 and ask Turkey to make it MLU. Keep updating JF17 with AESA and PL15. You guys know the flight cost per hour of M2K9 is frigging high?

Totally agree. We should have joint exercises between PAF and PLAAF on a regular basis incorporating the interaction between all assets (fighters, tankers, bombers etc) and the pilots should cross-traon frequently as well.

The first priority of PAF chose a fighter shall be availability in war time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then second, sanction free!!!!!!!!!!!! Then cost effective! Come last the specification!

What's the purpose to go for some expensive toys even you can't make it available in war time for spare parts and weapons? And frigging expensive to operate in the normal time, Santa Claus gift sitting in the hanger.

Someone said buying M2K9 for diversifying purpose! God you just can't diversify only for diversification! You put your national security on a line!I almost feel.pissed off! France can be incorporated in the process of updating Jf17!

 

[CriticalThought]

If I were the air chief of the PAF, I will immediately go for buy/ lease 3 squadron of J10b. More second hands F16 and ask Turkey to make it MLU. Keep updating JF17 with AESA and PL15. You guys know the flight cost per hour of M2K9 is frigging high?


The first priority of PAF chose a fighter shall be availability in war time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then second, sanction free!!!!!!!!!!!! Then cost effective! Come last the specification! What's the purpose to go for some expensive toys even you can't make it available in war time for spare parts and weapons? Someone said buying M2K9 for diversifying purpose! God you just can't diversify only for diversification! You shall put your national security at first place! I almost feel.pissed off!

I pointed out the exact same points earlier in the thread. People on the thread seem to believe we have some deep understanding with the French because of the leverage that UAE has. I say bollocks.

Now here is an interesting idea. If we get those M2K9s dirt cheap, we can scavenge the electronics and other goodies and put them on JF17. I am all for that!!!!

 

[帅的一匹]

When I made suggestion, I just thought I were a Pakistani.

I pointed out the exact same points earlier in the thread. People on the thread seem to believe we have some deep understanding with the French because of the leverage that UAE has. I say bollocks.

Now here is an interesting idea. If we get those M2K9s dirt cheap, we can scavenge the electronics and other goodies and put them on JF17. I am all for that!!!!

I said early this deal bang for the Bucks, only if, if, those M2K9 can come in a subsidized price. Wait and see!

Storm force always said I'm a Pakistani, and a false flagged Chinese.

 

[mrrehan]

UAE, Pakistan and Mirage 2000-9s
There is talk that lately-appointed Chief of General Staff of the Pakistani Army General Qamar Javed Bajwa intends to reactivate contacts with the UAE to buy the Emirati Mirage 2000-9 fighter jets in favor of Pakistan Air Force (PAF). The following 348-word report sheds more light on the subject and tells what about the Emirati reaction.

- See more at: http://www.tacticalreport.com/view_news/UAE-Pakistan-and-Mirage-2000-9s/5264#sthash.FAj297sf.dpuf

This is what I was trying to convey in the forum, Pakistan should go it, nice step as M2K is fly by wire equipped, opposed to it predecessor Mirage 3 or 5.

 

[CriticalThought]

When I made suggestion, I just thought I were a Pakistani.


I said early this deal bang for the Bucks, only if, if, those M2K9 can come in a subsidized price. Wait and see!

Storm force always said I'm a Pakistani, and a false flagged Chinese.

I have always wanted to learn Chinese myself. And believe it or not, I make a kick *** Chinese stir fry rice

 

[帅的一匹]

I have always wanted to learn Chinese myself. And believe it or not, I make a kick *** Chinese stir fry rice

If I have a chance to visit Pakistan, you shall cook me one! By the way, which city you live in Pakistan?

 

[CriticalThought]

If I have a chance to visit Pakistan, you shall cook me one! By the way, which city you live in Pakistan?

I am in Australia actually...

 

[MastanKhan]

I sense dejection and hopelessness on this thread. Here is my view of the world:

1. With the JF-17 Block 2, we are getting a solid base of airframes that can be later updated with latest avionics from the Block 3 program. No idea if Block 3 also incorporates structural changes and a new engine, but obviously, these would be hard to back port to Block 2. That said, in a world of BVR engagements and EW, we don't need an entirely new platform. We need the latest gadgetry that can be accommodated on JF-17. If a certain combination cannot be accommodated on one because of light weight, then network-centric capabilities can allow two or more fighters to band together and provide the capability.

2. Meanwhile, that lack of funds is being addressed by making a dedicated effort to export our technology. I don't know why this important area doesn't come up in discussions. This is a matter of pride and elation because it means we will have funds available for use.

3. Using the funds earned through exports, plus an upsurging economy, we should be in a position to buy the latest technology available on the market.

I am amazed how some posters lose the plot and go into a vicious cycle of hopelessness. Now let's see some positive posts on this thread.

Hi,

Realistically the position of Paf is beyond hopeless----it is pathetic---and that is no sugar coating.

Either it is BLK2 or it is BLK 3---it still needs full integration--I do not know if you understand that concept yet---even though it has been addressed---you have yet to change your thought process---.

So---keeping that in mind---an aircraft is needed that can fill some of the issues that pak military has---ie the shortage of front line aircraft---.

JF 17 is a long ways away from taking up the Flanks---which means facing the current enemy---.

In its current form---it would do wonderfully in Nigeria--because over there it is needed mostly for ground strikes---.

Funds earned from defense export are not enough---.

@wanglaokan is right in suggesting---Paf shpuld lease 3 sqdrn's of the J10B's-C's----. Paf should have done it 2 years ago---and they would not have been in this miserable condition that they are in now.