UAE, Pakistan and Mirage 2000-9s

[帅的一匹]

Hi,

But for them to fight for you against the corrupt politicians---they need to know---will you help them---.

You know Zardari is ready to sell you to the U S like yesterday---Nawz will do the same to save his ar-se---.

That is the only way left for china---aproach the public---help them help you---.

There is a big turmoil under the sea surface. To be honest, USA keeps interfere in Pakistan domestic politics, and China shall do something to fight back.

 

[war&peace]

Hi,

Bad question was answered by an equally bad answer---.

You kids are thoughtless---and do not have the ability to think.

I wrote about the INTEGRATION---it will take another 5-10 years to fully integrate the aesa equipped JF17---because it will not only have aesa but some other new goodies as well.

This is not a frigging F86 Sabre that the pilot would jump in the pilot's seat and take off like my Buddy's father did when he went to the U S to get the training.

These new first time built / manufactured 4 / 4.5 gen aircraft take time---take a lot of time to get used to---.

The chief of army is calling the shots---because in the last war at Kargil---the Paf was a no show---and with this coming clash---there is a good chance that it would still be ill-prepared and undercooked to fight an air war---.




Hi,

There was no rreason for china to offer asylum to Gen Mushy---but china needs to work on the grass root level in pakistan.

It may chose not to do so anywhere else in the world---but the situation with pakistan and china is totally different---.

China needs a totally different approach and policy for pakistan---and it needs to re-think and re-adjust its priorities---chinese hospitals and schools are a must---run by the chinese---. Building bridges amongst the people is not an easy job---but for them to fight for you and ally with you---you have to take things to a different level.

The chickens know as much about the biology as some of our pogo-kids on pdf about A/Cs ....just reading spec sheets does make one an expert on war strategy, it is the ability to analyse the system using the technical knowledge and war strategies gained over a long time..
JF17 will be great system but we need something quick to fix the gap ... I haven't seen JF17 doing anything in the battle, PAF used F16 and mirages and even F7pgs to attack the terrorist hideouts...why did they not use JF17s means either it is not ready due to integration issues or there are some other issues ...Anyways that means our bird is not ready yet and it needs time... that's the main reason that not so many buyers have come forward with an actual purchase, they express interest, they come close and then they turn back...because battle proven is the real thing.
SO if war breaks out we will be relying on a few dozen F16, old mirages and F7pgs. SO M2k9 can be the best thing to happen to PAF under current situation and budgetary constraints.

 

[帅的一匹]

That's why china is in touch with Imran Khan. If someone in the Pakistan think China is puny lice ready for sale , then he shall know that China is no pussy.

 

[imadul]

Also when UAE buys any weapon system, it makes sure that it has enough weapons/munitions and spare parts to last for more than 10 years, and since these 2K-9s are very well maintained and have "low mileage", they might still come with a lot of weaponry and spare parts from the UAE itself to last for 5, 6 or more years.. India will have no leverage on this.. Pakistan still can go for more French spare parts with peace of mind and time on its side..

=======================================


Mirage 2000-9

The Mirage 2000-9, advanced multi-role combat aircraft, is the last version ever produced of the Mirage 2000 family.

Adopted by nine air forces worldwide, 550 Mirage 2000 are currently in service, logging over 1,540,000 flying hours.

Operated in a wide variety of environment ranging from deserts to humid tropical countries, including polar and high-elevation area, deployed in many international training exercises and engaged in various fields of operation, the Mirage 2000 is a world reference in terms of availability and maintenance. Its interoperability and its performance have been well proven in combat.

Mirage 2000-9: the most advanced version in the
Mirage 2000 family

The Mirage 2000-9 design has taken advantage of this huge feed-back experience from the onset of the program to improve the aircraft, the navigation and weapon system, and to implement new functionalities.

As an example, operational experience especially within multinational forces, has shown the need for an increased fuel capacity and firing power.

This requirement has been fulfilled, among others, with the introduction into operational service within UAE AF & AD (United Arab Emirates Air Force & Air Defense) of the Mirage 2000-9, which is a significant upgrade from the previous versions of the Mirage 2000-5 series.

The Mirage 2000-9 integrates
– the additional operating capabilities specified and tailored by the UAE AF & AD,
– together with a lots of new technologies
– and functionalities directly issued from the experience gained from the RAFALE aircraft development.

Mirage 2000-9: a very ambitious program

This Mirage 2000-9 version is a very ambitious and successful program which embedded an incomparable number of new capabilities:

→ Navigation and Weapon System:
Modular avionics, new RDY-2 multimode radar, digital terrain following system, new IMEWS countermeasures suite, Thomrad radio with frequency evasion and enhanced encoding, glass cockpit with new LCD visualisations, 4-display digital recording system and night vision goggles compatibility, tactical data-link, gyro-Iaser inertial navigation system, navigation Forward Looking Infra-Red system (NAHAR)….

→ Air-to-Air role:
A unique capability available on the Mirage 2000-9 version, allows to use simultaneously IR and EM MICA in BVR mode (Beyond Visual Range) to deceive electronic warfare system of the target.

→ Air-to-Ground strikes:
Conventional bombs, day/night video and laser-guided bombs, “Black Shaheen” stand-off cruise missiles, long range recce pod, and “SHEHAB” laser designation pod.

→ Plus an in-flight refuelling capacity and the automatic speed control system thanks to the implementation of the autothrottle function.

Modular avionics and countermeasures suite are particularly worth mentioning in view of their unusual nature.

The Mirage 2000-9 is equipped with a pioneering IT “core system” architecture as of last generation aircraft (Rafale, F-22 & F-35/JSF).

When it comes to countermeasures, they break new ground by adopting interferometry technology, providing the aircraft with high self-protection capability and accurate EW threats localisation.

Just want to add "Shehab" laser targeting pod is a variant of the Damocles targeting pod

http://www.airvectors.net/avmir2k.html
http://www.aviationtoday.com/av/issue/feature/uaes-modernized-mirage_12697.html

The chickens know as much biology as some of our pogo-kids on pdf about A/Cs ....just reading spec sheets does make one an expert on war strategy, it is the ability to analyse the system using the technical knowledge and war strategies gained over a long time..
JF17 will be great system but we need something quick to fix the gap ... I haven't seen JF17 doing anything in the battle, PAF used F16 and mirages and even F7pgs to attack the terrorist hideouts...why did they not use JF17s means either it is not ready due to integration issues or there are some other issues ...Anyways that means our bird is not ready yet and it needs time... that's the main reason that not so many buyers have come forward with an actual purchase, they express interest, they come close and then they turn back...because battle proven is the real thing.
SO if war breaks out we will be relying on a few dozen F16, old mirages and F7pgs. SO M2k9 can be the best thing to happen to PAF in current situation and budgetary constraints.

....on the down side, looking for used Mirage 2000-5/9 and F-16 A/B is not a good advertisement for JF-17.

 

[帅的一匹]

The chickens know as much biology as some of our pogo-kids on pdf about A/Cs ....just reading spec sheets does make one an expert on war strategy, it is the ability to analyse the system using the technical knowledge and war strategies gained over a long time..
JF17 will be great system but we need something quick to fix the gap ... I haven't seen JF17 doing anything in the battle, PAF used F16 and mirages and even F7pgs to attack the terrorist hideouts...why did they not use JF17s means either it is not ready due to integration issues or there are some other issues ...Anyways that means our bird is not ready yet and it needs time... that's the main reason that not so many buyers have come forward with an actual purchase, they express interest, they come close and then they turn back...because battle proven is the real thing.
SO if war breaks out we will be relying on a few dozen F16, old mirages and F7pgs. SO M2k9 can be the best thing to happen to PAF in current situation and budgetary constraints.

Maybe because the low life span of RD93? Maybe PAF doesn't wanna waste the life of engine on anti terrorist operation.

 

[imadul]

Hi,

How fast you fizzled out---stop these worthless posts of yours---. You have no concept and clue of battle readiness---.

Mr. MK warming up LOL...but he is ditto.
FC-31 still development
Pak has just been rebuffed to acquire F-16 block 52+ by congress. Pay commercial price, No FMS price.
Tornado, eurofighter typhoon too expensive

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

My view is that our JF-17 program , most folks around 2009-2010 estimated that by 2016 we would have at least
150 to 160 fighter jets , meaning we would have replaced almost all of our Old Mirage or F-7PG

However , reality is that we presently have about 80 or 83 JF-17 , unofficial figure of course
Special note we have also started to sell the Thunders to external clients , so production rates will be modest

Arrival of the Mirage 2000-9 planes I think will boost our strategic estimates of fleet having newer planes. It will put us back into that 130-159 new planes by 2016 goals which most people esitmated in 2009 and 2010.

The other option of course is to setup 2 new Aircraft factories to ramp up production levels for Block 3 Thunder program, it would make sense to do it , seperate production for International Orders and Local Orders etc

• Nothing more then stop gap plane , odd 40-50 crafts would offer decent service for 10-12 years. Hopefully by then JF-17 Thunder production figures would have matured

Remains to be seen how the Future Craft would emerge to join Pakistan Airforce

• J-31 (5th Gen)
  
• Turkish / Pakistan joint initiative for 5th Gen fighter Jet
  
• Typhoon (Few squadrons due to high cost would be nice to have 18 of these lovely machine)

 

[Tank131]

Frankly this sounds like a load of nonsense. Why would PAF add this aircraft (which is admittedly very good) in modest numbers (50-57) when
A) Its no longer in production amd is as good as its goimg to get.
B) Adds a huge amount to logistical costs given PAF has no avenue to maintain them, no reserves of spare for a potentially sanction prone aircraft (unlike F-16 where PAF has a 5yr supply in reserve), and operates no weapons compatible with them. UAE isnt giving MICA OR Black Shaheen with them as they would be used for Rafale.
C) just as j-10 adds little new capabilities to the PAF the exact same would go for M2K9. Only difference is both JF-17 and J-10 have superior weapons which are already in PAF inventory. (sd-10 vs MICA, soon pl-10 amd possibly pl-15, c802a vs exocet, and all the myriad of a2g munitions)

Better to get more JF-17 and F-16s (used). At least those can be upgraded via Turkey (esp with an AESA from turkey potentially in the future to give a SABR type upgrade to them). Focus on getting a 5th gem fighter and possibly 4.5 gen if necessary.

 

[imadul]

No none knows, what and how however, few are confident and hoping for more best.... I have no issues from many point of views and am looking at the things turning in favour but may take a little bit more but it isn't late and all we need to keep in check is the, conspirator.....




India cannot back-off from Rafale at all and also, cannot stop Mirages to PAF at all as we are talking Frenace here so it is all about Money and India cannot influence after mere 36 purchase... If the game is to be played like this, see UAE influence as well and our recent MoU with France, speaks volume of our relations that are not totally in cold storage. India has to pay for the same more than what PAF is paying, along with Rafale money to influence but then it comes to UAE investment so will India try to off-set that too...... The so-called attempt to damage Pakistan - UAE relations through different media conspiracies, has no weight in these circumstances.

...playing devil's advocate...
how many contenders we have for Emirati M2000-9? Egypt? Iraq? and Pakistan.
though one year old news, UAE offered 10, 2000-9 to Iraq, proceeds to go to Dassault as part of down payment.

"The intended deal would see the UAE initially provide 10 aircraft to the Iraqi Air Force, with the funds paid directly to Dassault as part of the down payment for the UAE's Rafale deal".

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...aqs-kurdish-areas-procuring-rafales/79108590/.

Same news says, France blocked the deal!!!. Which is very surprising!
End of story, UAE Rafael deal dependent upon some country buying all Ex UAE Mirage 2000-9, proceeds directly going to Dassault as part of down payment.

Conclusion:
Pakistan to acquire used Mirage 2000-9 will be an attractive deal for PAF. It will close quantitative gap and much of qualitative gap too vis-a-vis IAF upgraded Mirage 2000/5 fleet.
Will give PAF much needed CAS and possible anti-armor and strafing role against India's division-sized integrated battle groups (IBG). Spraying them with HEAT submunitions from air.

But whole buying chain looks very complicated IMO. UAE Rafale deal depends upon some country buy 2000-9 and enter into a deal with France!!!. If Iraq is really interested in buying all or even half of the offered numbers, dice might go in their favor as they have lots of petro $$ and PAF is short of those greenbacks.
just my 2c

 

[MastanKhan]

Frankly this sounds like a load of nonsense. Why would PAF add this aircraft (which is admittedly very good) in modest numbers (50-57) when
A) Its no longer in production amd is as good as its goimg to get.
B) Adds a huge amount to logistical costs given PAF has no avenue to maintain them, no reserves of spare for a potentially sanction prone aircraft (unlike F-16 where PAF has a 5yr supply in reserve), and operates no weapons compatible with them. UAE isnt giving MICA OR Black Shaheen with them as they would be used for Rafale.
C) just as j-10 adds little new capabilities to the PAF the exact same would go for M2K9. Only difference is both JF-17 and J-10 have superior weapons which are already in PAF inventory. (sd-10 vs MICA, soon pl-10 amd possibly pl-15, c802a vs exocet, and all the myriad of a2g munitions)

Better to get more JF-17 and F-16s (used). At least those can be upgraded via Turkey (esp with an AESA from turkey potentially in the future to give a SABR type upgrade to them). Focus on getting a 5th gem fighter and possibly 4.5 gen if necessary.

Hi,

As I had stade---the successes and failures---the defeat and the glory---the delays of the JF17 are all pakistan's---.

The thing here is that the JF17 aesa equipped would also have some other goodies in it---and it will end up as a tremendous capability aircraft---basically a tier below the stealth aircraft---but for it to do that---it needs time--and time---pakistan does not have that---.

Paf are great pilots---but they are 3rd rate managers---they are very poor in situational and tactical awareness when in making deals---. Their planning has pure and total tunnel vision---and they are completely oblivious to what is happening in and around them---once they had made a decision---.

Basically they don't have the ability to change direction mid-stride---once new threats are visualized and become evident.

The naval flank is extremely weak at this time---and that also is due to Paf's inability to understand the significance and importance of power positioning---.

For them---naval war is not Paf's war---it is navy's war---it smells of treason like that of 1971 missile strikes---.

Bottomline---if Paf gets the 2000-9---it would be as potent as the BLK52 or more---.

I know very well that @Indus Falcon and @Khafee would have loved to say more---they are both itching to speak out---but I know @Khafee has said as much as he could and that is a lot----.

Most pakistan posters are clueless to the capabilities of the M2K9.

 

[帅的一匹]

@MastanKhan You always advocating loudly that Pakistan shall buy dual engine heavy striker for navy flank? But definitely no one in PAF hears you.

 

[Tank131]

Hi,

As I had stade---the successesand failures---the defeat and the glory---the delays of the JF17 are all pakistan's---.

The thing here is that the JF17 aesa equipped would also have some other goodies in it---and it will end up as a tremendous capability aircraft---basically a tier below the stealth aircraft---but for it to do that---it needs time--and time---pakistan does not have that---.

Paf are great pilots---but they are 3rd rate managers---they are very poor in situational and tactical awareness when in making deals---. Their planning has pure and total tunnel vision---and they are completely oblivious to what is happening in and around them---once they had made a decision---.

Basically they don't have the ability to change direction mid-stride---once new threats are visualized and become evident.

The naval flank is extremely weak at this time---and that also is due to Paf's inability to understand the significance and importance of power positioning---.

For them---naval war is not Paf's war---it is navy's war---it smells of treason like that of 1971 missile strikes---.

Bottomline---if Paf gets the 2000-9---it would be as potent as the BLK52 or more---.

I know very well that @Indus Falcon and @Khafee would have loved to say more---they are both itching to speak out---but I know @Khafee has said as much as he could and that is a lot----.

Most pakistan posters are clueless to the capabilities of the M2K9.

I agree its quite a potent aircraft, but for Pakistan it makes no sense compared to more second hand F-16s and even vs J-10. F-16 is already operated amd maintained by PAF with a huge cache of spares and compatible weapons. Additionally, Turkey is developing an AESA upgrade similar to Sabr which could be available to PAF bringing its vipers in line with f-16v. With j10, PAF already operates all the weapons the j10 would have. It's being continously upgraded and in the J-10b or C variant is likely as good or better than the m2k9, it has better weapons offered, which PAF already operates (and can customize its avionics and weapons suite) and no political issues associated with j10. Both create less logistical problems than m2k9 while m2k9 offers no significant upgrade in capability except being available. Hence if you are going for it, it would be better to get more F-16s (used) or j10 than m2k9.

That buys time for blk3 and is more streamline for logistics while maintaining same capabilities.

I also thought of m2k9 in context of PN as it has a cache of AM39 Exocet, the question is how many and how old/useful. I'm not sure France will sell PN more, but again you still have to acquire Mica and spares, but it would be a great plane for PN if they could arrange it. Certainly more than a match for mig-29.

 

[MastanKhan]

I agree its quite a potent aircraft, but for Pakistan it makes no sense compared to more second hand F-16s and even vs J-10. F-16 is already operated amd maintained by PAF with a huge cache of spares and compatible weapons. Additionally, Turkey is developing an AESA upgrade similar to Sabr which could be available to PAF bringing its vipers in line with f-16v. With j10, PAF already operates all the weapons the j10 would have. It's being continously upgraded and in the J-10b or C variant is likely as good or better than the m2k9, it has better weapons offered, which PAF already operates (and can customize its avionics and weapons suite) and no political issues associated with j10. Both create less logistical problems than m2k9 while m2k9 offers no significant upgrade in capability except being available. Hence if you are going for it, it would be better to get more F-16s (used) or j10 than m2k9.

That buys time for blk3 and is more streamline for logistics while maintaining same capabilities.

I also thought of m2k9 in context of PN as it has a cache of AM39 Exocet, the question is how many and how old/useful. I'm not sure France will sell PN more, but again you still have to acquire Mica and spares, but it would be a great plane for PN if they could arrange it. Certainly more than a match for mig-29.

Hi,

Tactically---going for more F16's is a total and pure blunder---.

They have to have another aircraft from another country to neutralize the fear of sanctions---.

Be in a position that sanctions become moot---no more F16's---.

 

[Surya 1]

Why are we even thinking about Mirage-2000??????????

It is a very good aircraft.

 

[The SC]

...playing devil's advocate...
how many contenders we have for Emirati M2000-9? Egypt? Iraq? and Pakistan.
though one year old news, UAE offered 10, 2000-9 to Iraq, proceeds to go to Dassault as part of down payment.

"The intended deal would see the UAE initially provide 10 aircraft to the Iraqi Air Force, with the funds paid directly to Dassault as part of the down payment for the UAE's Rafale deal".

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...aqs-kurdish-areas-procuring-rafales/79108590/.

Same news says, France blocked the deal!!!. Which is very surprising!
End of story, UAE Rafael deal dependent upon some country buying all Ex UAE Mirage 2000-9, proceeds directly going to Dassault as part of down payment.

Conclusion:
Pakistan to acquire used Mirage 2000-9 will be an attractive deal for PAF. It will close quantitative gap and much of qualitative gap too vis-a-vis IAF upgraded Mirage 2000/5 fleet.
Will give PAF much needed CAS and possible anti-armor and strafing role against India's division-sized integrated battle groups (IBG). Spraying them with HEAT submunitions from air.

But whole buying chain looks very complicated IMO. UAE Rafale deal depends upon some country buy 2000-9 and enter into a deal with France!!!. If Iraq is really interested in buying all or even half of the offered numbers, dice might go in their favor as they have lots of petro $$ and PAF is short of those greenbacks.
just my 2c

Iraq does not have the pilots nor the infrastructure to operate the Mirage 2000, almost everything was destroyed during the US invasion, that leaves Egypt who is already operating the M2K, but the latter seems to be more interested in very high end warplanes; Rafale, MIG-35, SU-35 and will most probably go for the JF-17 production afterwards..But still, if Pakistan and even Iraq do not find their way through the deal, Egypt will be more than happy to acquire them..And that might further delay any production prospects for the JF-17.. Thus, it is much better if Pakistan can secure the deal, it will be like hitting two birds with one stone and even more, since the JV will generate profits that will in the long run offset the price of the M2K-9 procurement..