UAE, Pakistan and Mirage 2000-9s

[CHI RULES]

From now on, no matter Russia happy or not, as long as China and Pakistan agree, we can do business. For example, Azerbaijian.


Every fellow Chinese member knows it, you can affirm with any of them. The recent FC31 block 2 is under test with WS13E, that's why we didn't see it as smoky as RD93.

The future export version of FC31 will install WS13SEP with FADEC, no more RD93. We can't install a smoky engine in a stealthy fighter.


Officially report released at June year 2016.

Dear considering drastic position of PAF as F16s latest block purchases look to be almost impossible, meanwhile block-III is even 2-3 yars away to be inducted/produced I hope PAF should seriously start some sort of collaboration in J31. So in near future i.e from 2019 onward we should may be able to induct a combo of block-III JF17s and J31 to counter Rafael and future IAF inductions. To be honest F16s up to block 52 which at most Pak can get are far behind in tech and weaponry to Rafael.

 

[帅的一匹]

@MastanKhan @CriticalThought I don't think guys need to debate. What Mastankhan concern is there must be a quick repelnishment of frontier fighter to PAF( he doesn't care it's M2K9 or J10b). What Criticalthought cares is the money must bang for the bucks and there won't be any risk of sanction imposed. As whether PAF has vision or not, you have to carry on cause it's your own air force, isn't it? A quick and right decision will lead you to a brilliant future, while a slow and bad decision will make pathetic in the future. It's PAF's fate, no one can help it.

 

[CriticalThought]

Hi,

You are out again with those comments. What do you mean by end of life---. You heard some fools use those comments and decided to use them as well without looking at the production date.

Then you conveniently forget into your own backyard---you know about this aircraft Mirage 3 / 5's---do you know how long has its production been stopped.

Did you know when the M2K9's were manufactured---and other upgrade to the 2000-9 standards.

The Mirage 2k9's are similar in performance to F16 BLK52's that we have---.



Hi,

I am surprised that you did not know that the ws13 was flying for awhile.

You should seriously drop your condescending attitude.

The Mirage2K is no longer under production. Airforces that already own them are getting upgrades done to maximize the life of existing aircraft.

The case of Mirage III/V in PAF is very different. We have extensive MRO facilities available, but even then we are actively looking to replace them. Ideally, the new 4.5+ aircraft should be replacing them.

Acquiring these aircrafts 3 years later from now and taking on the additional integration costs is an oxymoron. The world is moving forward and you want to pull us back? There are better avenues to spend this money than somebody else's hand me downs.

 

[帅的一匹]

Dear considering drastic position of PAF as F16s latest block purchases look to be almost impossible, meanwhile block-III is even 2-3 yars away to be inducted/produced I hope PAF should seriously start some sort of collaboration in J31. So in near future i.e from 2019 onward we should may be able to induct a combo of block-III JF17s and J31 to counter Rafael and future IAF inductions. To be honest F16s up to block 52 which at most Pak can get are far behind in tech and weaponry to Rafael.

PAF shall seriously address the huge challenge it gonna face from IAF. FC31 could be a a spear of an airforce, but you can't hope it will induct lots cause it's very expensive.

A quick replenishment of capable fighter with big updating potential is very necessary as of now, you just need make sure the it bangs for the Bucks and no strings attached!

PAF need some change in its doctrine, that how it is. And the final problem goes to MONEY! Will PAF accept J10b of China make 3 squadrons by FMS? Hell yes! Then need to call Xi Jing Ping.

I can't pretend to be confident typing here if China doesn't have J20 after IAF induct Rafale. Confidence is from power, and power comes from good long term plan.​

 

[CHI RULES]

Though it is a difficult track but considering PAF limitations the Mirage 2000-9 may become a potent platform for PAF if proper upgrades are done. The MRO facility can be installed easily as now we have more resources and man power then past. We have examples where legacy fighters are kept alive and potent in this era like F4 ,F14s in case of IRAF and Kafir block60 in case of Israel. Even IAF Jaguars have been upgraded.

On the other hand we should check some facts.
PAF JF17 block-III will have limited operational radius though may expected to be better than previous blocks.

If J31 inducted then it will have primary role to counter enemy 4+ gen or 5th gen jets. Further their induction may be at limited scale due to cost/handling issues.

There is big no for Viper upgrades or F16s latest blocks for PAF.

 

[MastanKhan]

You should seriously drop your condescending attitude.

The Mirage2K is no longer under production. Airforces that already own them are getting upgrades done to maximize the life of existing aircraft.

The case of Mirage III/V in PAF is very different. We have extensive MRO facilities available, but even then we are actively looking to replace them. Ideally, the new 4.5+ aircraft should be replacing them.

Acquiring these aircrafts 3 years later from now and taking on the additional integration costs is an oxymoron. The world is moving forward and you want to pull us back? There are better avenues to spend this money than somebody else's hand me downs.

I read somewhere you are a used car salesman?????????

Hi,

That is correct---I am a car salesman---. It has provided a good living for me and my family.

And I don't have a condescending attitude----. You yourself claimed in one of your posts that you did not know much about aircraft---and that reflected thru your posts as well.

You remind me of this pakistani engineer came here to the U S many a years ago with another engineer who was a friend---they were on govt business---. During a meeting with the american counterparts---he would talked about problems with the pumps that the americans had sold---but when the americans would want him to pinpoint the problem or give recommendations to fix them---he had none.

But what does my job have to do with this discussion and your pathetic knowledge about weapons systems.

You are atypical pakistan---who can talk smart---try to talk intelligent about weapons---but has no clue what they do---.

I told you---you have no fizzle left---.

Though it is a difficult track but considering PAF limitations the Mirage 2000-9 may become a potent platform for PAF if proper upgrades are done. The MRO facility can be installed easily as now we have more resources and man power then past. We have examples where legacy fighters are kept alive and potent in this era like F4 ,F14s in case of IRAF and Kafir block60 in case of Israel. Even IAF Jaguars have been upgraded.

On the other hand we should check some facts.
PAF JF17 block-III will have limited operational radius though may expected to be better than previous blocks.

If J31 inducted then it will have primary role to counter enemy 4+ gen or 5th gen jets. Further their induction may be at limited scale due to cost/handling issues.

There is big no for Viper upgrades or F16s latest blocks for PAF.

Hi,

Actually the M2000-9 are the most recent and most potent upgrades. Some rate it better that the BLK52's---right in between BLK60's and BLK 52's.

 

[CriticalThought]

Though it is a difficult track but considering PAF limitations the Mirage 2000-9 may become a potent platform for PAF if proper upgrades are done. The MRO facility can be installed easily as now we have more resources and man power then past. We have examples where legacy fighters are kept alive and potent in this era like F4 ,F14s in case of IRAF and Kafir block60 in case of Israel. Even IAF Jaguars have been upgraded.

On the other hand we should check some facts.
PAF JF17 block-III will have limited operational radius though may expected to be better than previous blocks.

If J31 inducted then it will have primary role to counter enemy 4+ gen or 5th gen jets. Further their induction may be at limited scale due to cost/handling issues.

There is big no for Viper upgrades or F16s latest blocks for PAF.

Please quantify how it would be 'easy' to setup MRO for M2K? What kind of figures are we looking at in terms of time, money, and man hours? And would France even agree to setup such a factory in the first place?

 

[HRK]

Storm force always said I'm a Pakistani, and a false flagged Chinese.

strome force is a known Indian who deliberately delete flags from his profile to deceive other nationals Chinese in particular. This is his new found love in this forum so request you to plz report any such post where he claimed in past or in future if he claim himself as a Pakistani again.

MOU with France on classified enhancements

thats not a classified thing ......

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Lot of things discussed behind closed doors

 

[CHI RULES]

Please quantify how it would be 'easy' to setup MRO for M2K? What kind of figures are we looking at in terms of time, money, and man hours? And would France even agree to setup such a factory in the first place?

It is not Rafael about which we are talking abt further even French were ready to upgrade Pak Subs so they shall have no problems with MRO setup. The UAE factor is also there to push them. Every defense deal bears costs there is no free lunch in this world. It is just base on affordability.

Our Mirage-III/Vs have served us from 70's to date. Jules Verne's novels are main inspiration behind West's progress in Air crafts/ Space program. He only gave an idea and technicalities were handled by pros later on.

Any thing purchased in case of defense surely has deep planning/feasibility being done by pros same will be case if inducted in this case.

If any member has better plans he should share.

 

[Centurion2016]

Mirage2000/9 is not coming until UAE gets delivery of 60 rafales in five or six years period.

Second a proper upgrade firxs French fighter can only happen with French dassult on boarst. That upgrade will cost ssrious money that's after you have paid UAE two billion plus to buy them.

This will take between five to eight years to complete.

Save your limited funds and concentrate on existing platforms,is best solution.

Trump is cutting military support globally so the including NATO.so getting g cheap falcons is over and full of risk from sanctions.

That leaves chinease they can build fighters but it is globally accepted they do not have same level of technology as thec west

 

[MastanKhan]

Second a proper upgrade firxs French fighter can only happen with French dassult on boarst. That upgrade will cost ssrious money that's after you have paid UAE two billion plus to buy them.


That leaves chinease they can build fighters but it is globally accepted they do not have same level of technology as thec west

Hi,

Those M 2000-9's were 10 years ahead of their time against what was available in the market---so they don't need any full fledged upgrades now or for another 5-10 years.

Minor modification are a norm---.

As for chinese technology---Paf can induct the J10's---and while they learn to fly and operate the aircraft---they can modify it to their needs---.

Just like the chinese are doing it to the J20---. The chinese have not stopped because a tier one EW package was not available 2-3 years ago---. They progressed in flight and operations and as the package becomes available---it gets transferred onto the aircraft and that reduces the time of integration---.

 

[YeBeWarned]

19 pages and still this thread going on .. but lets just ask this question , does UAE give any Hint to sell these Aircraft's on discounted price ? and even if they do, which Air craft will replace the huge Gap in UAE Airforce ?

 

[BATMAN]

I sense dejection and hopelessness on this thread. Here is my view of the world:

1. With the JF-17 Block 2, we are getting a solid base of airframes that can be later updated with latest avionics from the Block 3 program. No idea if Block 3 also incorporates structural changes and a new engine, but obviously, these would be hard to back port to Block 2. That said, in a world of BVR engagements and EW, we don't need an entirely new platform. We need the latest gadgetry that can be accommodated on JF-17. If a certain combination cannot be accommodated on one because of light weight, then network-centric capabilities can allow two or more fighters to band together and provide the capability.

2. Meanwhile, that lack of funds is being addressed by making a dedicated effort to export our technology. I don't know why this important area doesn't come up in discussions. This is a matter of pride and elation because it means we will have funds available for use.

3. Using the funds earned through exports, plus an upsurging economy, we should be in a position to buy the latest technology available on the market.

I am amazed how some posters lose the plot and go into a vicious cycle of hopelessness. Now let's see some positive posts on this thread.

Since when discussion became MK9 vs. JF-17?

PAF is already operating mirages... that for a reason, will continue to operate for atleast another decade. What's the big difference, if same budget is spent on M2K, instead? where we expect to receieve spares, upgraded engine, upgraded frames and co-operation of Dasault.

 

[CriticalThought]

Since when discussion became MK9 vs. JF-17?

PAF is already operating mirages... that for a reason, will continue to operate for atleast another decade. What's the big difference, if same budget is spent on M2K, instead? where we expect to receieve spares, upgraded engine, upgraded frames and co-operation of Dasault.

I am not trying to divert the discussion to MK9 vs JF-17, I was just recapping the grand plot for everyone's benefit.

Yes, we are already operating Mirages. But the M2K is a different plane altogether. My contention is that it is not going to be a case of 'spend the same budget on M2K'. There will be huge integration and then ongong maintenance costs down the road. I mean, just going by the figures bandied by other posters on this thread, it would take anywhere from 5-10 years to integrate a new aircraft. So, you receive them in 3 years time (optimistic), that is already 2020, then you take 10 years to integrate them, you will be flying turn of the century junk in 2030. Does this make any sense to you?