U.S. unlikely to back down on Taiwan issue

[Zsari]

Fine...Then we can disregard the argument that somehow the FLG group is a bunch of tax evaders and that somehow that made them morally odious.

Tax evasion is probably the least serious crime FLG is charged with morally speaking, but it is the easiest to stick. In any case, its leadership are still sheltered by the US. I don't think any anti-government group operating from foreign country will do well in the US on moral yard stick.

 

[gambit]

Tax evasion is probably the least serious crime FLG is charged with morally speaking, but it is the easiest to stick. In any case, its leadership are still sheltered by the US. I don't think any anti-government group operating from foreign country will do well in the US on moral yard stick.

Tax evasion and/or corruption are charges and crimes that are most convenient and quickest to paint a target as a criminal.

With any country's tax codes, if the tax man works hard enough, anyone, including the President or Prime Minister or King or Emperor, can be made a criminal.

With politics, if the prosecutor works hard enough, any actions and relationships by any politician can be interpreted to be 'corruption' and corrosive to the honor of the government.

So as far as the Falun Gong group goes, stop using the tax code as a shield, although most of us know that the Chinese government need that shield no matter what.

China have an amoral government. Not immoral because that would imply at least a patina of adherence to a morality system. But amoral because the Chinese leadership abandoned Marxism a few decades ago, took up capitalism but loathes the concept of democracy. In other words, the Chinese leadership is out only for itself as a dictatorship. This group can no longer be called a 'party' or 'Party' because it begs the question of: 'Party of what ?' Marxism ? Are you joking ? These guys are as elite as any 1-percenter of any country. They wear tailored suits not of China and in the words of Everlast...

I licked the silver spoon
Drank from the golden cup
Smoked the finest green

So naturally they are going to be afraid of groups like Falun Gong or the kids who demanded more openness and democracy for China in Tiananmen Square. And in the persecution of the followers of Falun Gong, if tax evasion is easy to make it stick, use it.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Go home Yanks! Taiwan is located 7000 miles away from you. Buzz off.

 

[Zsari]

Tax evasion and/or corruption are charges and crimes that are most convenient and quickest to paint a target as a criminal.

With any country's tax codes, if the tax man works hard enough, anyone, including the President or Prime Minister or King or Emperor, can be made a criminal.

With politics, if the prosecutor works hard enough, any actions and relationships by any politician can be interpreted to be 'corruption' and corrosive to the honor of the government.

So as far as the Falun Gong group goes, stop using the tax code as a shield, although most of us know that the Chinese government need that shield no matter what.

China have an amoral government. Not immoral because that would imply at least a patina of adherence to a morality system. But amoral because the Chinese leadership abandoned Marxism a few decades ago, took up capitalism but loathes the concept of democracy. In other words, the Chinese leadership is out only for itself as a dictatorship. This group can no longer be called a 'party' or 'Party' because it begs the question of: 'Party of what ?' Marxism ? Are you joking ? These guys are as elite as any 1-percenter of any country. They wear tailored suits not of China and in the words of Everlast...

I licked the silver spoon
Drank from the golden cup
Smoked the finest green

So naturally they are going to be afraid of groups like Falun Gong or the kids who demanded more openness and democracy for China in Tiananmen Square. And in the persecution of the followers of Falun Gong, if tax evasion is easy to make it stick, use it.

You are going in circles. Politics are ammoral to start with, and "ism" are for public consumptions only. No government adhere to any ism, or that will be idealism. The principle goal of all government is to survive, and that's why anti-government groups are persecuted anywhere you go. There is nothing special about the Chinese government or the FLG, and the Chinese government would be negligent if it would to do nothing.

 

[gambit]

You are going in circles. Politics are ammoral to start with, and "ism" are for public consumptions only. No government adhere to any ism, or that will be idealism.

Now it is YOU who are going in circles. Or better yet, going nowhere. What I just read is completely nonsensical.

The principle goal of all government is to survive, and that's why anti-government groups are persecuted anywhere you go. There is nothing special about the Chinese government or the FLG, and the Chinese government would be negligent if it would to do nothing.

There is a difference between being 'anti-government' and challenging the government on certain issues.

Anarchists are 'anti-government'. Opposition political parties are not. Opposition political parties, which includes the current one in power, needs government in order to, what else -- governs.

Fighting for certain rights and freedoms are not being 'anti-government'. If I defend mine and your right to read whatever we want, does that mean I want to abolish the government as an institution ?

You sounds like someone who never had even basic civic classes, let alone university level political science.

 

[Zsari]

There is a difference between being 'anti-government' and challenging the government on certain issues.

Anarchists are 'anti-government'. Opposition political parties are not. Opposition political parties, which includes the current one in power, needs government in order to, what else -- governs.

Opposition political parties are still working under the same consitutional & legal framework of the state, not anti-government forces, who either does not recognize the power of the state or intend to overthrow the state. Your portrait of FLG as "opposition political parties" are just laughable. Which political party is paid for and operated from aboard. If they are, that reason alone would make them illegal.

 

[tranquilium]

Look army mule, nothing makes your system more special than others so long as it does not deliver good results. Talking about dynasties, probably, the US is the best in creating political dynasties throughout its modern history.

I think in practice this is really the only point you will need. People are way to hang up on whatever the name of the system is and completely ignoring the fact that fundamental purpose of any selection process is to improve the nation by producing competent leaders.

 

[gambit]

Opposition political parties are still working under the same consitutional & legal framework of the state, not anti-government forces, who either does not recognize the power of the state or intend to overthrow the state. Your portrait of FLG as "opposition political parties" are just laughable. Which political party is paid for and operated from aboard. If they are, that reason alone would make them illegal.

That is a different issue.

We are talking about the fundamental right and freedom -- or should be -- of the people to form opposition political parties, and yes they should be legally formed, without fear of persecution by the government. If the people, via the government, want to ban foreign influence in these opposition parties and have credible proof that there are foreign influences, it does not mean ALL opposition political parties are under foreign influence. Foreign influences are legitimate concerns, to the criminality level if necessary, and I, as a democrat (not Democrat), have no issues if China does have such laws. But precisely because I am a democrat I believe that there is an inherent and non-debatable right and freedom of the people to have alternate political views and to create formal organizations to express these alternate views.

The funding sources for these parties are issues of concerns at a lower level of discussion.

The bottom line is that your China does not believe in the same rights and freedoms as we in the West do. If YOU support at least an authoritarian state, borderline dictatorial, then have the intellectual spine and say so for the record. But do not hide behind the charge that the Falun Gong believers, no matter how loony they may be, are foreign financed and therefore it is legitimate to paint all opposition political parties, in China and elsewhere, as being under foreign influence and can be no other way.

 

[Zsari]

That is a different issue.

We are talking about the fundamental right and freedom -- or should be -- of the people to form opposition political parties, and yes they should be legally formed, without fear of persecution by the government. If the people, via the government, want to ban foreign influence in these opposition parties and have credible proof that there are foreign influences, it does not mean ALL opposition political parties are under foreign influence. Foreign influences are legitimate concerns, to the criminality level if necessary, and I, as a democrat (not Democrat), have no issues if China does have such laws. But precisely because I am a democrat I believe that there is an inherent and non-debatable right and freedom of the people to have alternate political views and to create formal organizations to express these alternate views.

The funding sources for these parties are issues of concerns at a lower level of discussion.

The bottom line is that your China does not believe in the same rights and freedoms as we in the West do. If YOU support at least an authoritarian state, borderline dictatorial, then have the intellectual spine and say so for the record. But do not hide behind the charge that the Falun Gong believers, no matter how loony they may be, are foreign financed and therefore it is legitimate to paint all opposition political parties, in China and elsewhere, as being under foreign influence and can be no other way.

Wait, you seriously didn't know about the connection between FLG and NED and the US Congress?

 

[Okemos]

No No No

Two much sugar and butter!

I saw so many Huge US people !!!! Not only Fat !

Yeah, very very sweet. I don't like desert in U.S. Also potato chips and all junk food taste horrible to me. Just oily and salty taste but no flavor.

 

[Kyle Sun]

Yeah, very very sweet. I don't like desert in U.S. Also potato chips and all junk food taste horrible to me. Just oily and salty taste but no flavor.

US chip is very very salty .

MC and KFC are different with CN version .

 

[gambit]

Wait, you seriously didn't know about the connection between FLG and NED and the US Congress?

Why not address the REAL question:

Do YOU support the people's right and freedom to form opposition political parties without fear of persecution from the government ?

Keep in mind that we have the CPUSA and their 2014 convention is in Chicago. In 2013 it was in the US capital city of capitalism of New York City. So if we can tolerate the existence of the communist party in the US, a party that is as opposition as you can get, surely China can tolerate something more mild, no ?

It is revealing about Chinese living in America -- like you. If your rights and freedoms are even accidentally violated by an incompetent police officer, you would scream bloody murder about your Constitutional rights and holler for the ACLU to come to your rescue. But you have no problems advocating bloody and murderous oppression of other political biases in China.

 

[TaiShang]

Wait, you seriously didn't know about the connection between FLG and NED and the US Congress?

That's the problem, right there. Due to historical inequalities in economic and political power, the West will continue to keep the high ground in terms of influence and manipulation. There is little China can do to isolate itself unlike what the US enjoyed when it was growing internally and carrying out a genocide and colonial enlargement. Even though you close itself out, the technology will force you open. Hence, certain protective measures need to be implemented so that economic and social progress would be ensured without foreign involvement. But, when imperialist countries unable to directly break into your house, they find a fifth column to undermine your strength. FLG is one such organization. They are not powerful (if any) because of who they are, but, of who they are with.

In such a case, then, a nation will ignore all the pseudo moralistic judgments and implement policies for collective good such as overseeing world's fastest and largest economic expansion.

The world is a realist ground and politics is an elite business everywhere. The question is whether your nation is ruled by national elites or international/western elites.

 

[Zsari]

Why not address the REAL question:

Do YOU support the people's right and freedom to form opposition political parties without fear of persecution from the government ?

Keep in mind that we have the CPUSA and their 2014 convention is in Chicago. In 2013 it was in the US capital city of capitalism of New York City. So if we can tolerate the existence of the communist party in the US, a party that is as opposition as you can get, surely China can tolerate something more mild, no ?

It is revealing about Chinese living in America -- like you. If your rights and freedoms are even accidentally violated by an incompetent police officer, you would scream bloody murder about your Constitutional rights and holler for the ACLU to come to your rescue. But you have no problems advocating bloody and murderous oppression of other political biases in China.

As if the CPUSA has not been persecuted by the US government. Heard of the Smith Act or Dennis vs the US?
I've already given you the information on FLG, that is foreign funded and lead, and it advocates the overthrowning of the Chinese government. That is mild to you?

 

[Pakistanisage]

I seriously Doubt US commitment to Taiwan.

If Push came to shove, it will be the repeat performance of Georgia and Crimea all over again.

Whoever said that " Crime(a) does not Pay " was kidding...

Our Economy is in no condition to take on Russia and China....