U.S. and Saudis in Growing Rift as Power Shifts

[Aamna14]

You are cant compare indian population to ours. Of course there will be a diff in numbers. But people by population ratio we have an edge. Total number is higher for them. Yes.

My point is if they can maintain relations with both India and Pakistan why can't we do the same?? Just because of the claim that they have supported us through aid??

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

I see major changes in next decade. With growing influence of China and its challenge to US, US will do whatever it takes to encircle China and reduce its influence.

It started with strategic ties with India and giving up on Pakistan. It already has its allies in East Asia like Japan, South Korea etc.

Yes, you are correct but the problem for the US is that China's challenge to them is mainly economic and all the US responses so far to that is military ie the Asian pivot. This means that China is making money in the region through trade and investments and the US is spending money building bases and deploying their naval assets far from home. It will only make the US financial and economic situation worse. Since China is making money in the region and the US is spending money in the region you can take a guess who's going to end come out on top. What the Americans need is a pivot to America to clean up the mess they got back home. But that's not happening because they are largely living in denial.

As for US Saudi relations. People need to know that the balance of power in that relationship is not at all skewed towards the Americans. There is something called the Petrodollar recycling where the Saudi's through their influence in OPEC has convinced other oil producing nations to only take USD for payment for oil and then proceed to kick that money back into the US economy through Wall Street. If there is a US Saudi rift that could endanger the Petrodollar recycling then the US will find it much harder to export their dollars (read inflation) abroad and that means that the dollars and inflation will stay in the US. The price increases in the US that is already pretty bad will get worse. The Americans are increasingly biting the hands that feeds them.

Petrodollar recycling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[KRAIT]

Yes, you are correct but the problem for the US is that China's challenge to them is mainly economic and all the US responses so far to that is military ie the Asian pivot. This means that China is making money in the region through trade and investments and the US is spending money building bases and deploying their naval assets far from home. It will only make the US financial and economic situation worse. Since China is making money in the region and the US is spending money in the region you can take a guess who's going to end come out on top. What the Americans need is a pivot to America to clean up the mess they got back home. But that's not happening because they are largely living in denial.As for US Saudi relations. People need to know that the balance of power in that relationship is not at all skewed towards the Americans. There is something called the Petrodollar recycling where the Saudi's through their influence in OPEC has convinced other oil producing nations to only take USD for payment for oil and then proceed to kick that money back into the US economy through Wall Street. If there is a US Saudi rift that could endanger the Petrodollar recycling then the US will find it much harder to export their dollars (read inflation) abroad and that means that the dollars and inflation will stay in the US. The price increases in the US that is already pretty bad will get worse. The Americans are increasingly biting the hands that feeds them.Petrodollar recycling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I personally think that US should focus on domestic industries along with its trade with India, make good relations with Iran so that it can tap significant part of trillion dollar worth of resources in Afghanistan.
India already has good working relations with both Iran and Afghanistan.
US can have significant market in India to compete with China which will be having $ 100 billion worth of trade by 2015.
Too much outsourcing to India is hurting US and will certainly cost a lot in near future.

Another important thing is the change in US foreign policy which has been highlighted by New York Times where US is moving from military might to Diplomacy (not completely of course). This will not only reduce its expenditure but will certainly lead it to focus on other major problems especially at domestic level.

Off topic: Africa is another big market which US has to compete with China. China already owns large portion of land there and have significant influence.

Also, teaming up with Brazil which is one of the big market available and fast growing economy, US will certainly have its edge.

 

[aliijaz89]

U.S. and Saudis in Growing Rift as Power Shifts

Article below:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/26/w...g-rift-as-power-shifts.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0


____________________________________________________________________
I have said many times before in this forum, Obama is a back stabber and a coward, walked on his allies in europe far east and other places, i said he is negotiating with the iranian regime from behind our backs and i will not be suprised if he strikes a deal against us, which he did.

the next US president will be more likely as Obama, since the WH and congress old policy makers are gone, all he cares about Obama and new staff is what he calls gay rights and things like that.

but to be honest we only have our selves to blame and no one else, Saudi Arabia is unified since 1922 (if i remember correctly) and was named the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in 1932, oil was discovered in 1936....what are we doing all these years until now?

why Saudi Arabia doesn't have a formidable military power? even after 1991 which is more than 22 years ago! when we got stabbed in the back by so called "arabic speaking brothers" we did not build a large army until now? no existant military industry? not even for ammunition and spare parts!

as i said we only have ourselves to blame, all this tremendous wealth is just getting stolen into the pockets of the few, we achieved almost nothing, only in oil production and petrochemichal indusrty thanks to ARAMCO, because it was founded on professional principles by experts from the states, other that we don't have much.

Sorry but it is the painful truth and every Saudi Arabian citizen know it, unless he want to burry his head in the sands.

the truth is that saudi arabia is playing a monstrously evil role in the world of islam, and in order to fool the people and cover their shame, they had enforced some laws of shariah to impress the muslims around the world,

most of the sufferings that are hapening today of muslims are directly or indirectly because of this american kingdom of saudi arabia, the only man in this leadership who was sincere for the future of islam was king faisal, rest all are puppets,

 

[rockstar08]

seems like a temporary friendship ... i think KSA should stay calm and focus on acquiring their weapons and missiles

 

[Chronos]

Cheap oil supersedes logic & morality!

u.S. is growing less dependent on foreign oil. That makes them less susceptible to temper tantrums by KSA

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Civilian analysis

OBL could have picked any national in his camp to do what these 15 had done, it was a political objective that he failed to achieve when the air was cleared in 2002.

US should partner up with Iran rather than KSA. After all OBL and 9/11 attackers were from KSA not from Iran. Most of the terrorist camps are financed by many KSA millionaires.

Do you have any materialistic evidence on the funding issue?

Cheap oil supersedes logic & morality!

The US imports less than %10 of oil from KSA.

Nice try, next...

They have enough money to buy the best available in market. Whether its from EU countries or from China.

But we already bought aplenty of Pakistan.

I support anything that comes from Pakistan's end to ours.

@Aeronaut @BATMAN

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

We don't set a universal Islamic rules around the globe, and we aren't responsible for the Muslim worlds misery, but, we can always help if needed. Your claim contradicts logic and is incredibly hilarious and contradicts the rule of nature

the truth is that saudi arabia is playing a monstrously evil role in the world of islam, and in order to fool the people and cover their shame, they had enforced some laws of shariah to impress the muslims around the world,

most of the sufferings that are hapening today of muslims are directly or indirectly because of this american kingdom of saudi arabia, the only man in this leadership who was sincere for the future of islam was king faisal, rest all are puppets,

India's FP with the US has left her with huge disadvantages, in the sense that it doesn't play by the US's role

India not willing to play by the rules: US lawmakers

Forget about having good relations with the US. You may need to check out John P. Holdren's stance on India to see for yourself. He literarily said " give India nothing "

China is far important to the US as a trading partner, and debit buyer.

I personally think that US should focus on domestic industries along with its trade with India, make good relations with Iran so that it can tap significant part of trillion dollar worth of resources in Afghanistan.
India already has good working relations with both Iran and Afghanistan.
US can have significant market in India to compete with China which will be having $ 100 billion worth of trade by 2015.
Too much outsourcing to India is hurting US and will certainly cost a lot in near future.

Another important thing is the change in US foreign policy which has been highlighted by New York Times where US is moving from military might to Diplomacy (not completely of course). This will not only reduce its expenditure but will certainly lead it to focus on other major problems especially at domestic level.

Off topic: Africa is another big market which US has to compete with China. China already owns large portion of land there and have significant influence.

Also, teaming up with Brazil which is one of the big market available and fast growing economy, US will certainly have its edge.

 

[Aamna14]

You are cant compare indian population to ours. Of course there will be a diff in numbers. But people by population ratio we have an edge. Total number is higher for them. Yes.


I am not asking one to do that either. But my opinion not that it could be a fact but my opinion is that when compared to iran (not due to personal vendeta) the Saudis have always backed us. On the contrary our iranian neighbors constantly favor the indian over us. And cooperate with them in putting us down. So personally I would take a Saudi relation over the iranian. But you are right we have to try and work it out with them all.

Well like you said yourself its you're personal opinion and i am yet to find any sort of backing other than the one i mentioned.

 

[Kompromat]

US should partner up with Iran rather than KSA. After all OBL and 9/11 attackers were from KSA not from Iran. Most of the terrorist camps are financed by many KSA millionaires.

Last time Iran 'partnered' with the US of A, they pulled their democratically govt down, which resulted in a 15 year long dictatorship followed by an Islamic revolution.

I'm not sure Iranians are even a little bit interested in repeating that again.

 

[Tihamah]

@MuslimConscript
You have APC, IFV and MRAP of your own, and you also produce Small arms since long
MP5, Romanian AKs, G36, G3, and MG3
But yes I agree that Saudi must Enlarge Military Industry Capability

wars are not fought with Armored cars, those are hardly useful light missions only, G3's and light machine guns etc we are manufaturing them for more than 40 years, you can't call these military indusrty, if we are still living in 1915 maybe you can call it military industry

@BLACKEAGLE
As for the "Arab speaking countries backstabbing", I would love you to take a long and deep look at Iraq now to realize who was right to refuse American invasion.

since you asked our dear brother about it, i was refering to the back stabbers of Iraq, JORDAN, Yemen and Sudan etc

those who sucked out billions upon billions from Saudi Arabia, while at the first chance they showed thier ugly faces and tried to stab us in the back, Jordan refused even to join 1973 against israel and sent a warning to the israelis warning them that egypt and syria might attack them

King Hussain of jordan one of the worst and biggest backstabbers and traitors i ever saw.

I will never ever forget what they tried to do in 1990. PERIOD

@al-Hasani
I don't quite fully understand your criticism? You are talking about KSA like we were Zimbabwe, North Korea or Iran to name just a few examples.

Well since you started wtih comparing Saudi Arabia to these countries, you really proved my point, you picked some of the worst countries to make your self feel better!

is that what we should be compared to? iran? NK? Zimbabwe!

____________________________

i do believe most of the people around are youngsters probaly at most early 20's, they completely unaware of what happened in the past and they don't know any thing about the geopolitical history of the gulf and middle east, completely unaware of how many times we got stabbed in the back by the same regimes & same countries but it seems our leadership never learns.

i looked to the rest of the the posts in this topic, nothing needs or i should say worth replying, most posts are out of the topic, some of them are marketing weapons, it seems they think the Saudis who are writing in this topic make any descisions at all.

one more thing i want to say, there is a huge difference between honesty & loyalty and between lying and hypocracy, it seems some people don't know the difference at all.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

No Aero, you forgot their partnership when they opened their air space to the US in both of Iraq and Afghanistan? And Bush dumbed them later with the axis of evil things

Last time Iran 'partnered' with the US of A, they pulled their democratically govt down, which resulted in a 15 year long dictatorship followed by an Islamic revolution.

I'm not sure Iranians are even a little bit interested in repeating that again.

 

[al-Hasani]

@Tihamah, 7abibi I don't quite fully understand your criticism? You are talking about KSA like we were Zimbabwe, North Korea or Iran to name just a few examples.

We are one of the most stable countries in the world in one of the most volatile regions of the world - the Middle East. We don't have any ethnic divisions that other countries of the region have big problems with and which I only suspect will be the beginning, such as Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria etc. Aside from the 5% of Shias but they by 99% will always be loyal to their own kin than any other foreign entity.

We are one of the fastest growing economies in the world while more or less everybody around us is declining or in chaos. Except Turkey. I don't include all those small GCC member states (Qatar, Kuwait or UAE) since they are part of us and I predict that they will one day be incorporated in KSA or a real union. Look out for the GCC taking more steps toward full integration.

We are soon to become a trillion GDP economy. We are already a G-20 major economy member state. We will continue to be one of the leading Arab and Muslims powers with 2 billion Muslims turning towards Makkah and Madinah which in itself always gives influence but most importantly responsibilities.

We have among the most promising and big economic, development and scientific projects in the Middle East and MENA region. The whole of KSA is one big building ground - more or less.

I don't understand all the pessimism. Did I mention that our military is strong enough to deter any attempt of any invasion from any Middle Eastern country?

Lastly, yes, some of this could be done earlier etc. but the political climate and the state of the region was not always such and wrong decisions were made like with any country. We all have regrets and whole countries are not any different.

Also which rift in relations with the Americans are you talking about? We had a similar rift back in 2003 when we disagreed with the US administration and their decision of invading Iraq. Have you forgot all the investments we have in the USA or other GCC member states?

Look, USA are not stupid. They will never leave the biggest Arab economy, probably the most influential country, a strategic placed country 1.5 times the size of Iran and a country that has been a key ally for nearly 70 years out of a sudden.

Our relations with key EUropean powers have not halted even once in recent years. Let alone, should USA suddenly abandon KSA and thus the Sunni Arabs world (which is way more prosperous, numerous in people, resources, area, potential) for the sake of just one entity in Iran then there will always be other alternatives in China or maybe even Russia.

I think that we can sit back calmly. For now I don't see how we loose anything from that US-Mullah deal.

If the Iranians attempt anything silly in the region they will be reprimanded by KSA, Turkey and the other powerful states of the Middle East or most importantly the international community.

And if they stop being a pariah state we might actually benefit from that in terms of trade etc. or a growing relation. Those Mullah's can't rule forever, you know!

All in all then it is all highly exaggerated.
It seems to me that you are a bit anti- House of Saud but leaders come and go. We don't depend on them. In fact we might have been better placed with other rulers or worse. Can't tell.

@Tihamah

Brother, did you even read my whole post? All what I mentioned are facts. It has nothing to do with most of us Saudi Arabian users not being above 30 years old.

My example of those specific countries are nothing more than an illustration of you overreacting and being too critical. Nothing more.

I don't understand your remaining post. Jordan, Yemen, Iraq are all brotherly and neighboring Arab/Semitic countries whom we share ancient historical ties to on every level. And we are not faultless either.

At the start of your topic you gave me the impression of a person wanting fundamental changes, being against the regime and now you are dwelling in some ancient episodes of no worth today.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Please elaborate more and provide sources and make your point clear.

 

[Kompromat]

No Aero, you forgot their partnership when they opened their air space to the US in both of Iraq and Afghanistan? And Bush dumbed them later with the axis of evil things

During the first gulf war Iran allowed the US to fly cruise missiles through its territory to Iraq because the Iraqi terrain was flat which the Tomahawk's TERCOM couldn't map resulting it to get lost.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

During the first gulf war Iran allowed the US to fly cruise missiles through its territory to Iraq because the Iraqi terrain was flat which the Tomahawk's TERCOM couldn't map resulting it to get lost.

Yeah, I know death to America is just a slogan