U.S. and Saudis in Growing Rift as Power Shifts

[ChineseTiger1986]

That's exactly what I am saying bro! No, probably not and this is why I am eager to have better relations with China. But is there any guaranty of your country not pursuing a similar imperialistic policy as the USA? I mean is not every world power doing just that for good and bad?

If you truly will show good intentions to the Muslim world - more sincere than the American ones, which I truly believe you would for a lot of reasons that I don't really want to mention here since it would start a longer debate and I have a assignment to make, then be sure about the fact that you could potentially have the goodwill of 25-30% of the worlds population and nearly half of the World's land mass at your side.

China being a Asian country too and a country with ancient ties to the Middle East/Muslim world and a better understanding of the region and the fact that not every civilization country on earth want/was/will become a carbon copy of the Western societies have a great chance of doing just that.

Actually the weapons KSA are buying are top of the marker. And the price is about right. Could be cheaper could be more expensive.

But when you have enormous amounts of money and thus can get the best of the best you tend to forget about the most important thing - that it would be better if you could produce something similar or even half as good or even aim to produce something better. That's something that has thankfully changed in KSA and thus why you see so many economic, industrial etc. projects that are comparable to similar projects on a world scale.

And it would be even better if you and USA teamed up and made each other mutually stronger and thus benefited the whole world. But as we all know then we all need to have enemies. Often in order to prosper and be challenged. But if that evolves into nuclear war then I say better leave that out, LOL.

When China was strong in the past, she has not done anything as bad as the West has done.

But you are right, no one is born as an angel, thus it is better having the multipolar world with the eastern world regain its former greatness.

China is trying to pursue the greatness, not the absolute dominance like USA.

 

[al-Hasani]

When China was strong in the past, she has not done anything as bad as the West has done.

But you are right, no one is the angel, thus it is better having the multipolar world with the eastern world regain its former greatness.

China is trying to pursue the greatness, not the absolute dominance like USA.

I agree with that. If not then I hope that if the day comes and China becomes the global power then that she learns from the mistakes the Americans committed because nothing lasts forever. The more powerful you are the more powerful problems you will usually have to face and deal with whether internal or external.

Yes, that notion I agree with. There needs to be a balance. A balance is always a healthy thing disproportionality not so much.

I don't actually think that USA has any absolute dominance. Maybe in the Western world and its allies. Outside of it, no. If China and Russia did not exist they would have a absolute hegemony though. Probably that is.

 

[Aamna14]

And I will tell u that Support of KSA to Pakistan will never go away. It was there when the iran centric zardari gov came to power. And it will stay there forever InshAllah. And as far as supporting terrorism in india goes, frankly you guys shouldnt complain as you do the same. But yes a discussion for a diff place diff time.

One thing about the myth of indian neutrality, did u guys not reject to be the part of the iran Pakistan gas pipeline, and conveniently made the excuse of not trusting Pakistan. Where as it was done due to American pressure. Not too neutral I say.

Okay i have a genuine question other than the frequent aid what support are you talking about??

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I agree with that. If not then I hope that if the day comes and China becomes the global power then that she learns from the mistakes the Americans committed because nothing lasts forever. The more powerful you are the more powerful problems you will usually have to face and deal with whether internal or external.

Yes, that notion I agree with. There needs to be a balance. A balance is always a healthy thing disproportionality not.

I don't actually think that USA has any absolute dominance. Maybe in the Western world and its allies. Outside of it, no. If China and Russia did not exist they would have a absolute hegemony though.

The notion is about benevolence vs hegemony.

Since the Roman Empire to the later Mongol Empire, then to Britain, now the USA, they all chose to use the notion of hegemony to maintain their dominance.

I think this method looks so cool and powerful, but it has now proved to not be able to last very long.

I think the creation of a higher level of civilization needs to take the notion of benevolence.

China even has the ambition to become a space civilization, but we need to take the notion of benevolence.

To dominate other people to prove your greatness or to help other people to prove your greatness?

I think we should choose the later one if we want our civilization to last longer.

 

[BATMAN]

Okay i have a genuine question other than the frequent aid what support are you talking about??

Not to mention Saudi Arabia is house of millions of Pakistanis from decades, and most of the remittances come from Saudi Arabia.
Now you can imagine, what are our own exports to offset any unrest in Saudi Arabia.

 

[KRAIT]

One thing about the myth of indian neutrality, did u guys not reject to be the part of the iran Pakistan gas pipeline, and conveniently made the excuse of not trusting Pakistan. Where as it was done due to American pressure. Not too neutral I say.

Nope. We asked them Civil Nuclear deal if they don't want us in IPI pipeline.

It was smart diplomacy by India.

 

[Aamna14]

Not to mention Saudi Arabia is house of millions of Pakistanis from decades, and most of the remittances come from Saudi Arabia.
Now you can imagine, what are our own exports to offset any unrest in Saudi Arabia.

But Saudi Arabia even houses millions of Indians if i am not wrong.

 

[al-Hasani]

The notion is about benevolence vs hegemony.

Since the Roman Empire to the late Mongol Empire, then to Britain, now the USA, they all chose to use the notion of hegemony to maintain their dominance.

I think this method looks so cool and powerful, but it has now proved to not be able to last very long.

I think the creation of a higher level of civilization needs to take the notion of benevolence.

China even has the ambition to become a space civilization, but we need to take the notion of benevolence.

To dominate other people to prove your greatness or to help other people to prove your greatness?

I think we should choose the later one if we want our civilization to last longer.

The Western hegomy is only 500 years old, my friend. And that is not entirely truth since far from the whole world was under their dominance. I would rather say the last 200 years since the British Empire. The Roman Empire only had its hegemony in Southern Europe, parts of Western Europe and parts of Northern Africa/parts of the Middle East.

If you look at the Middle East as a powerhouse then we have thousands years of dominance of the that then known world and they have something like 500 years.

Also one cannot compare those ages with the current ages or those since the WW1. At any level.

Interesting. I thought about that too but I cannot come up with something other than economic power and only military solutions when really needed. It is easier that way to control large areas.

Anyway it is all interesting but difficult to predict. So much can change. A new invention or a few and the world as we know it today could change dramatically.

But Saudi Arabia even houses millions of Indians if i am not wrong?

Well over 2 million. Biggest foreign group of people in the country.

 

[Aslan]

Okay i have a genuine question other than the frequent aid what support are you talking about??

There are many threads here. That you can search. Its not a secret how the Saudis have financed, and what they have financed in Pakistan. The highest number of Pakistanis living outside Pakistan are in Saudi. And off of all the GCC countries they are the most accommodating to the Pakistani community. The Petrol that we get from them on the cheaper rates. Just to name a few things. I know that we use to get a special rate from them. Dont know what happen during zardaris time.

Pakistan–Saudi Arabia relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Aamna14]

The Western hegomy is only 500 years old.my friend. The Roman Empire only had its hegemony in Southern Europe, parts of Western Europe and parts of Northern Africa/parts of the Middle East.

If you look at the Middle East as a powerhouse then we have thousands years of dominance of the that then known world and they have 500 years.

Also one cannot compare those ages with the current ages or those since the WW1. At any level.

Interesting. I thought about that too but I cannot come up with something other than economic power and only military solutions when really needed. It is easier that way to control large areas.

Anyway it is all interesting but difficult to predict. So much can change. A new invention or a few and the world we know today could change dramatically.



Well over 2 million. Biggest foreign group of people in the country.

@BATMAN see so there is no difference and therefore the claim of the support isn't really exclusive.

 

[Aslan]

But Saudi Arabia even houses millions of Indians if i am not wrong.

Unconfirmed numbers
2.5mil indians
And
more then 1.5 mil Pakistanis.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The Western hegomy is only 500 years old.my friend. The Roman Empire only had its hegemony in Southern Europe, parts of Western Europe and parts of Northern Africa/parts of the Middle East.

If you look at the Middle East as a powerhouse then we have thousands years of dominance of the that then known world and they have 500 years.

Also one cannot compare those ages with the current ages or those since the WW1. At any level.

Interesting. I thought about that too but I cannot come up with something other than economic power and only military solutions when really needed. It is easier that way to control large areas.

Anyway it is all interesting but difficult to predict. So much can change. A new invention or a few and the world we know today could change dramatically.

The Caliphate also took the approach of benevolence, since you guys helped the West to preserve their lost Greco-Roman civilization. But the method that the West has paid you is always the crusade, which is utterly ungrateful and barbaric.

If China chooses the same type of hegemony as USA, then we won't last very long as well.

If we want to evolve into a higher level of civilization, then we have to choose the benevolence method.

USA uses a more advanced form of hegemony method than the Mongol Empire, but it is still the hegemony method by its nature.

We have been demonized by the western propaganda for centuries, but in fact we are both a benevolent civilization.

If China can regain its former glory, then the Muslim/Arabic civilization can do this as well.

 

[BATMAN]

@BATMAN see so there is no difference and therefore the claim of the support isn't really exclusive.

I do not want to carry it further... neither i have any list to give you.

 

[Aamna14]

There are many threads here. That you can search. Its not a secret how the Saudis have financed, and what they have financed in Pakistan. The highest number of Pakistanis living outside Pakistan are in Saudi. And off of all the GCC countries they are the most accommodating to the Pakistani community. The Petrol that we get from them on the cheaper rates. Just to name a few things. I know that we use to get a special rate from them. Dont know what happen during zardaris time.

Pakistan–Saudi Arabia relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We as a nation don't benefit greatly from them not great enough to risk our relations with other countries. I am certainly not denying the significance of KSA but thats taking it to another level.

 

[Aslan]

@BATMAN see so there is no difference and therefore the claim of the support isn't really exclusive.

You are cant compare indian population to ours. Of course there will be a diff in numbers. But people by population ratio we have an edge. Total number is higher for them. Yes.

We as a nation don't benefit greatly from them not great enough to risk our relations with other countries. I am certainly not denying the significance of KSA but thats taking it to another level.

I am not asking one to do that either. But my opinion not that it could be a fact but my opinion is that when compared to iran (not due to personal vendeta) the Saudis have always backed us. On the contrary our iranian neighbors constantly favor the indian over us. And cooperate with them in putting us down. So personally I would take a Saudi relation over the iranian. But you are right we have to try and work it out with them all.