U.S. and Saudis in Growing Rift as Power Shifts

[al-Hasani]

@ChineseTiger1986

In connection to China then I have this to say. If you outscore USA on most parameters then be sure about the fact that countries from across the world and not just your neighborhood would be eager to team up with you. Mutual interests would thus be strengthened and no party would loose anything on such deals.

The reason why certain countries have better relations with the West than China is because they benefit much more from Western relations than with Chinese as of now. Or did for the past many decades. China first really got relevant on the world stage as we see today in the last 20 years or so. But still much is needed to be done to dream about outscoring the Americans/West. But I wish you all the best of luck.

USA is obviously also benefiting from those relations it has to be said otherwise they would not create them!
After all we live in a world where the economy is the law.

 

[KRAIT]

I see major changes in next decade. With growing influence of China and its challenge to US, US will do whatever it takes to encircle China and reduce its influence.

It started with strategic ties with India and giving up on Pakistan. It already has its allies in East Asia like Japan, South Korea etc.

KSA is just pushed so that it makes its peace with Iran.

Pakistan giving link to China via Gwadar is also another reason for US to stop China in increasing its influence in Gulf.

Iran deal also shows that for keeping its bases in Afghanistan operational and extending its reach to Central Asia, it will rather improve its relations with Iran.

Iran's major objection is Israel and hence it supports Hezbollah. So, US might play a role as mediator in making Israel to back off and reaching a peace agreement which many other Arab nations will support unless they want to suffer the fate of Arab spring nations.

Another major point is rising Russia to its older glory. Putin led to resurgence of Russia. With SCO as major possible challenge to NATO, US is looking for long term strategies.

I know there are many Ifs and Buts. In recent times, we have seen how quickly the world scenario has changed.

 

[BATMAN]

This was not an overnight change, King Abdullah had a policy of diversification in public relations and business.

I suggest, Saudi Arabia shall buy JF-17, Al-Khalid, drones & missiles from Pakistan.

 

[al-Hasani]

I see major changes in next decade. With growing influence of China and its challenge to US, US will do whatever it takes to encircle China and reduce its influence.

It started with strategic ties with India and giving up on Pakistan. It already has its allies in East Asia like Japan, South Korea etc.

KSA is just pushed so that it makes its peace with Iran.

Pakistan giving link to China via Gwadar is also another reason for US to stop China in increasing its influence in Gulf.

Iran deal also shows that for keeping its bases in Afghanistan operational and extending its reach to Central Asia, it will rather improve its relations with Iran.

Iran's major objection is Israel and hence it supports Hezbollah. So, US might play a role as mediator in making Israel to back off and reaching a peace agreement which many other Arab nations will support unless they want to suffer the fate of Arab spring nations.

Another major point is rising Russia to its older glory. Putin led to resurgence of Russia. With SCO as major possible challenge to NATO, US is looking for long term strategies.

I know there are many Ifs and Buts. In recent times, we have seen how quickly the world scenario has changed.

All what you wrote there is nothing new. In the last 10 years it has mainly been a battle for influence of the world between USA and the West on one side and China and its allies on the other (Russia also belonging to that "other part" - second part). Those two parties have fought their proxy wars constantly since the cold war. Then came the excuses of fighting against "international terrorism" etc. in order to get a foothold in one of the most rich and geopolitically important regions in the Middle East. But all that is just a show to hide the real intentions.

As long as the world is relatively peaceful and my country, Middle East, Arab world and Muslim world is peaceful and prospering step by step then I frankly don't care what the "big dogs" are doing. Let them fight their own wars.

Besides I think that the power of the economy will be more important in the future world than that of just the military power. We have left the days of playing military power/new conquerors of the world.

 

[JUBA]

I thought Bush was the dumbest and worst president the US had till Obama came, can't wait for the next elections, our relations with the US is at it's finest when the republicans are in the office, can't say the same about the democRATS.

 

[Aslan]

US should partner up with Iran rather than KSA. After all OBL and 9/11 attackers were from KSA not from Iran. Most of the terrorist camps are financed by many KSA millionaires.

Also all the indian expats should leave the evil saudi land. And go back home. You should start a campaign and force ur gov to take the step. And also the GOI should return all the Saudi investment. And ban them from india.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

@ChineseTiger1986

In connection to China then I have this to say. If you outscore USA on most parameters then be sure about the fact that countries from across the world and not just your neighborhood would be eager to team up with you. Mutual interests would thus be strengthened and no party would loose anything on such deals.

The reason why certain countries have better relations with the West than China is because they benefit much more from Western relations than with Chinese as of now. Or did for the past many decades. China first really got relevant on the world stage as we see today in the last 20 years or so. But still much is needed to be done to dream about outscoring the Americans/West. But I wish you all the best of luck.

USA is obviously also benefiting from those relations it has to be said otherwise they would not create them!
After all we live in a world where the economy is the law.

USA has done wonderfully in the past, they got so many allies because everyone benefits from being a US ally. But can this wonderfulness of US last forever? Since 2008, they have started to do more harm than good.

China is working hard to prove its greatness, just wait and see. We can help the Muslim nations to become fully industrialized, this is worth more than anything. While the West only wants to sell their overpriced and overrated weapons to you, yet they will do anything to prevent you to access their crucial technology.

 

[KRAIT]

This was not an overnight change, King Abdullah had a policy of diversification in public relations and business.
I suggest, Saudi Arabia shall buy JF-17, Al-Khalid, drones & missiles from Pakistan.

They have enough money to buy the best available in market. Whether its from EU countries or from China.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I thought Bush was the dumbest and worst president the US had till Obama came, can't wait for the next elections, our relations with the US is at it's finest when the republicans are in the office, can't say the same about the democRATS.

Both democrats and republicans were made up by selfish people.

USA was more promising during the Bush era because they were stronger and richer back then.

But today, they will not give you the candy anymore, but rather grab your candy.

 

[KRAIT]

Also all the indian expats should leave the evil saudi land. And go back home. You should start a campaign and force ur gov to take the step. And also the GOI should return all the Saudi investment. And ban them from india.

Saudi invested in India and there have been talks of $ 100 billion investment.
Does Saudi wants to loose an important market. Especially India which maintained a neutral position viza viz Iran - KSA - Israel.
Diplomacy is not done on Emotions.

 

[BATMAN]

They have enough money to buy the best available in market. Whether its from EU countries or from China.

The products i listed, Pakistan excels in them.
Where as non of other foreign products will work, actually they will work in favor of enemies of KSA.
Saudi Arabia, seriously need to hire some retired officers from Pakistan army.

 

[Aslan]

Saudi invested in India and there have been talks of $ 100 billion investment.
Does Saudi wants to loose an important market. Especially India which maintained a neutral position viza viz Iran - KSA - Israel.
Diplomacy is not done on Emotions.

You think they care about u guys. You over blow ur importance a tad bit too much. And I was just going by your point of view, and by what u wrote it didnt sound too neutral at all. And frankly this has been the opinion of most of your countrymen on this forum.

 

[al-Hasani]

USA has done wonderfully in the past, they got so many allies because everyone benefits from being a US ally. But can this wonderness of US last forever? Since 2008, they have started to do more harm than good.

China is working hard to prove its greatness, just wait and see. We can help the Muslim nations to become fully industrialized, this is worth more than anything. While the West only wants to sell their overpriced and overrated weapons to you, yet they will do anything to prevent you to access their crucial technology.

That's exactly what I am saying bro! No, probably not and this is why I am eager to have better relations with China. But is there any guaranty of your country not pursuing a similar imperialistic policy as the USA? I mean is not every world power doing just that for good and bad?

If you truly will show good intentions to the Muslim world - more sincere than the American ones, which I truly believe you would for a lot of reasons that I don't really want to mention here since it would start a longer debate and I have an assignment to make on something as "interesting" as chemical engineering, then be sure about the fact that you could potentially have the goodwill of 25-30% of the worlds population and nearly half of the World's land mass at your side.

China being a Asian country too and a country with ancient ties to the Middle East/Muslim world and a better understanding of the region and the fact that not every civilization country on earth want/was/will become a carbon copy of the Western societies have a great chance of doing just that.

Actually the weapons KSA are buying are top of the marker. And the price is about right. Could be cheaper could be more expensive.

But when you have enormous amounts of money and thus can get the best of the best you tend to forget about the most important thing - that it would be better if you could produce something similar or even half as good or even aim to produce something better. That's something that has thankfully changed in KSA and thus why you see so many economic, industrial etc. projects that are comparable to similar projects on a world scale. All in order to make us more self-sufficient although such a process is not something you do just in the matter of days.

And it would be even better if you and USA teamed up and made each other mutually stronger and thus benefited the whole world. But as we all know then we all need to have enemies. Often in order to prosper and be challenged. But if that evolves into nuclear war then I say better leave that out, LOL.

 

[KRAIT]

You think they care about u guys. You over blow ur importance a tad bit too much. And I was just going by your point of view, and by what u wrote it didnt sound too neutral at all. And frankly this has been the opinion of most of your countrymen on this forum.

I was telling from US POV.
From my POV, India should remain neutral as we do trade with Iran and KSA in billions of dollars. We don't want to jeopardize our growth.
Even in past few years, India-KSA relations have got major boost. Only problem I have with KSA is its support to Pakistan, which supports terrorism in our country. But that discussion can be done in some other thread.

 

[Aslan]

I was telling from US POV.
From my POV, India should remain neutral as we do trade with Iran and KSA in billions of dollars. We don't want to jeopardize our growth.
Even in past few years, India-KSA relations have got major boost. Only problem I have with KSA is its support to Pakistan, which supports terrorism in our country. But that discussion can be done in some other thread.

And I will tell u that Support of KSA to Pakistan will never go away. It was there when the iran centric zardari gov came to power. And it will stay there forever InshAllah. And as far as supporting terrorism in india goes, frankly you guys shouldnt complain as you do the same. But yes a discussion for a diff place diff time.

One thing about the myth of indian neutrality, did u guys not reject to be the part of the iran Pakistan gas pipeline, and conveniently made the excuse of not trusting Pakistan. Where as it was done due to American pressure. Not too neutral I say.