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Turkish Air Defence Programs

https://www.reuters.com/article/fra...nco-italian-group-turkish-firms-idUSL8N1P02NS

Okay, so there's this statement:

Turkey awarded the 18-month contract to the Franco-Italian Eurosam consortium...

And also this statement:

The three-country missile programme is scheduled to be ready by the middle of the next decade...

Now, I don't have a Ph.D. in mathematics, but I don't think January 2018 plus 18 months makes it all the way to the middle of the next decade. Can someone please make some sense of these two statements?
 
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These's this statement:

Turkey awarded the 18-month contract to the Franco-Italian Eurosam consortium...

And also this statement:

The three-country missile programme is scheduled to be ready by the middle of the next decade...

Now, I don't have a Ph.D. in mathematics, but I don't think January 2018 plus 18 months makes it all the way to the middle of the next decade. Can someone please make some sense of these two statements?
IMO...
The tech exist... and mostly need an evolution + TR subsystem integration... Those 18month are for this prelimenary" incorporation" and "study"
As for the "half-decade"...it's mostly the deadline for Production...

Even Erdogan, during speech with French President said, that he hoped it will enter production very soon...
 
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https://www.reuters.com/article/fra...nco-italian-group-turkish-firms-idUSL8N1P02NS

Okay, so there's this statement:

Turkey awarded the 18-month contract to the Franco-Italian Eurosam consortium...

And also this statement:

The three-country missile programme is scheduled to be ready by the middle of the next decade...

Now, I don't have a Ph.D. in mathematics, but I don't think January 2018 plus 18 months makes it all the way to the middle of the next decade. Can someone please make some sense of these two statements?

@Vord you should read carefully, 18 months is STUDY period for design and development. Thus, Design is gonna start after 18 months study, hopefully in 2020. But we can guess it would take at least a couple year for SSM to award the contract for development program.

@OguzSenturk As far as I understand, This deal isn't about design or production of SAM system, This is contract for a study into the development and production of a long-range air and missile defence system.

https://www.reuters.com/article/fra...nco-italian-group-turkish-firms-idUSL8N1P02NS
 
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@Vord you should read carefully, 18 months is STUDY period for design and development. Thus, Design is gonna start after 18 months study, hopefully in 2020. But we can guess it would take at least a couple year for SSM to award the contract for development program.

I don't know man. Why should it take another 5.5 years to be ready after the 18 month development contract? That seems awfully slow. The development period with Eurosam ends in July 2019. Middle of the next decade is 2025. Something feels a little "off" here.
 
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Turkey has awarded Eurosam, Aselsan and Roketsan a contract for the definition study of the future Turkish Long Range Air and Missile Defence System. The contract award was made during the meeting of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and President Emmanuel Macron today in Paris.

Scheduled to last 18 months, this definition study aims at preparing the development and production contract for the future system meeting the operational requirements of the Turkish Air Force. The contract was awarded by the SSM (the Undersecretariat for Defence Industries), which is responsible for acquisitions under the President of Republic of Turkey, jointly to Turkish companies Aselsan and Roketsan, and to the Franco-Italian consortium Eurosam; backed by its two shareholders MBDA and Thales.

The contract follows on from the Heads of Agreement signed by the Industry on 14 July 2017 and the Letter Of Intent signed by the French, Italian and Turkish Defence Ministers on 8 November 2017.
This study paves the way for the launch of a three-country joint Long Range Air and Missile Defence Program. The future system will be ready by the middle of the next decade with a state-of-the-art military capability designed to counter the most challenging threats (stealth aircraft, UAVs, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles). The system is expected to meet three countries’ basic operational needs and it will guarantee Turkey has full employment autonomy and will allow a sovereign choice of integration level within NATO. The joint development activity is expected to support Turkey’s indigeneous air and missile development programme in addition to opening up prospects for exports and longer-term co-operation of Turkey, Italy and France.

At the signing ceremony of this definition study contract, Abdoulaye Samba, Eurosam Managing Director, stated: « Eurosam has been fully dedicated to air and missile defence since its inception in 1989 and has acquired world-class expertise as well as a unique experience of co-operation in this strategic and eminently sovereign domain. Today, we are proud to provide this know-how to the co-operation between France and Italy with their Turkish ally within NATO. I am confident that this co-operation will also last several decades and will contribute to bringing our countries closer on a strategic level, as it has been the case for the last thirty years with France and Italy. «

http://www.eurosam.com/newsroom/#/1188
 
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I don't know man. Why should it take another 5.5 years to be ready after the 18 month development contract? That seems awfully slow. The development period with Eurosam ends in July 2019. Middle of the next decade is 2025. Something feels a little "off" here.
18 months is study period which means it should be start from concept design and end with critical design phases. But this might not include critical design phase since 18 months is too short. So We also should do prototyping and testing phases after this.
 
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MISSILE DEFENCE NEWS
TURKEY'S MISSILE DEFENCE


Late 2017, Turkey finalised a deal with Moscow for the purchase of Russia's S-400 anti-missile system, despite concerns voiced by some of the NATO member's allies. At the same time, Ankara also reached a deal with Eurosam to develop a similar air and anti-missile defence system.

The deal with Moscow would make Turkey the first member of NATO to own Russia's most advanced air defence system, comes amid strengthening ties between Turkey and Russia and Ankara's deteriorating relations with the United States and other Western countries. The Turkish Undersecretariat for Defence Industries (SSM) said in a statement late 2017 that Turkey would buy at least one S-400 surface-to-air missile battery with the option of procuring a second battery, while Turkish media reported that Turkey would purchase four S-400 units at a cost of $2.5 billion. The delivery of the first battery was scheduled for the first quarter of 2020, the statement said. The two countries also finalised a financial agreement for the project, under which part of the cost would be financed through a Russian loan. According to news sources, the contract is worth $2.5 billion and that a Russian loan would account for 55% of the sum.

The reason for the discrepancy over the number of batteries Russia would supply Turkey was not immediately clear, due to "principles of secrecy" agreed to by the two countries.

The S-400 has a range of up to 400km (about 249mk) and can simultaneously engage multiple targets. It is capable of shooting down ballistic missile warheads along with aircraft and cruise missiles. Russia deployed the S-400s to its base in Syria to deter Turkey when the two nations were on the verge of conflict after a Turkish jet downed a Russian bomber on the Syrian border in November 2015. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced in September that Turkey had signed a deal to buy the Russian system and made a down payment, drawing concerns from some of Turkey's NATO allies.

Early January 2018, Turkey awarded Eurosam, Aselsan and Roketsan a contract for the definition study of the future Turkish Long Range Air and Missile Defence System (T-LORAMIDS), based of the technology of the SAMP/T and the ASTER missile produced by Eurosam.

Scheduled to last 18 months, this definition study aims at preparing the development and production contract for the future system meeting the operational requirements of the Turkish Air Force. The contract was awarded by the SSM jointly to Turkish companies Aselsan and Roketsan, and to the Franco-Italian consortium Eurosam; backed by its two shareholders MBDA and Thales.

The contract follows on from the Heads of Agreement signed by industry on 14 July 2017 and the Letter Of Intent signed by the French, Italian and Turkish Defence Ministers on 8 November 2017.

The study paves the way for the launch of a three-country joint Long Range Air and Missile Defence Programmd. The future system will be ready by the middle of the next decade with a state-of-the-art military capability designed to counter the most challenging threats (stealth aircraft, UAVs, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles). The system is expected to meet three countries’ basic operational needs and it will guarantee Turkey has full employment autonomy and will allow a sovereign choice of integration level within NATO. The joint development activity is expected to support Turkey’s indigeneous air and missile development programme in addition to opening up prospects for exports and longer-term co-operation of Turkey, Italy and France.

At the signing ceremony of this definition study contract, Abdoulaye Samba, Eurosam Managing Director, stated: "Eurosam has been fully dedicated to air and missile defence since its inception in 1989 and has acquired world-class expertise as well as a unique experience of co-operation in this strategic and eminently sovereign domain. Today, we are proud to provide this know-how to the co-operation between France and Italy with their Turkish ally within NATO. I am confident that this co-operation will also last several decades and will contribute to bringing our countries closer on a strategic level, as it has been the case for the last thirty years with France and Italy. "

The SAMP/T system in operation within the French and Italian Armed Forces for more than five years, contributes to the NATO Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) capability. In June 2016, Eurosam's SAMP/T long-range air-defence unit arrived in southern Turkey's Kahramamaras province as part of NATO measures to reinforce Turkey's border defences against a possible Syrian missile threat.
 
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The system is expected to meet three countries’ basic operational needs and it will guarantee Turkey has full employment autonomy and will allow a sovereign choice of integration level within NATO.
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It's just always the French position since De Gaulle - Total strategic independence -, nothing new.

That's the reason why France wants its own version - Aster Block II - of ‘THAAD and RIM-161 SM-3 Block IIA missile’:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turk...dates-discussions.332876/page-58#post-9667784

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turk...dates-discussions.332876/page-56#post-9630957

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turk...dates-discussions.332876/page-59#post-9668527

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/macron-erdogan-to-talk-defense-ties.537278/#post-10146577



As far as I see, they’re talking about Block 1 NT version, after that Block 2 will come.

http://www.mbda-systems.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/2017-01-What-the-Aster-B1-NT-brings.docx.pdf

Yes, expected after 2025. Aster 30 Block 1 NT will be delivered in 2023 (MBDA).


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nothing new.
Yes I know. That was always my point to argue that Greeks armament policy was much more efficient than Turkish.
BTW Frances radar umbrella and AD depends not on Ramstein base. Some people couldn't even believe that Greeks bought non NATO weapons Russian and France to be able to attack Turkey. The Mirage 2000s were bought when France was not member of Nato's military part. Exact a Mirage 2000 locked 1996 his Matra missile on a non weaponed Turkish F-16 and killed Turkish Pilot captain Nail Erdogan. The Greek killer pilots brother crashed before this attack during a dogfight against a Turkish F-16 and died.

Turkey has to develop BM s with nuke capacity. Who knows ?
Be sure Germany is a hidden nuclear power too. They have all the hardware. Lets say they can assemble it within a day.
 
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It's a pity that Turkey had been such a slap-bitch of the USA for many decades prior to the 2000s that we never even dreamed about developing our own conventional weapon platforms, let alone nukes. Now with hostile powers in all directions, and a very unreliable "ally" in the US, which is itself hostile to Turkey as its actions in Northern Iraq and Syria have shown, we have no option but to develop nukes. Especially given how Israel is already a nuclear power and Iran is very close.

The only way we can deter attacks on Turkey's sovereignty and national interests from 2020's on is by becoming a nuclear power ourselves!
 
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The only way we can deter attacks on Turkey's sovereignty and national interests from 2020's on is by becoming a nuclear power ourselves!

Yeah? A whole lot of good that did for Pakistan.. Nah.. We have to increase our soft power.
 
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The only way we can deter attacks on Turkey's sovereignty and national interests from 2020's on is by becoming a nuclear power ourselves!

Buddy. I repeat again : " If you have never say you have. I you not have never say I don't have".
 
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Yeah? A whole lot of good that did for Pakistan.. Nah.. We have to increase our soft power.

Soft power is always good to have. But soft power alone can't deter powerful enemies from striking Turkey, or working against our national interests, or supporting terrorists against us, or dictating us unfavorable EEZs, or organizing coups within our country. Sure, nukes don't guarantee any of that, but they certainly go a long way to that effect.

US attacked and occupied Afghanistan in a heartbeat. But it can never do the same to Pakistan. I'd count that toward nukes doing some good for Pakistan.
 
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