Turkey’s S-400 vs F-35 dilemma in 2019

[CAN_TR]

Shadow-boxing is what this is called.

The US trains Turkish forces for joint patrols in Syria. They are currently training Turkish pilots in the American desert. They have almost 100 B61s housed on Turkish soil. The US would send their blood and treasure to fight and die should Turkey be attacked and they invoke NATO Article 5.

If someone has convinced you that the US is your enemy, then the S-400 makes sense. Otherwise, I hope they stay engaged and in the F-35 program, and in NATO in general. It is Turkey's choice, as a sovereign nation.

Buddy, you Americans are the ones who refused Patriot sales to Turkey, and now you threating us with sanctions/excluding from project for S-400 purchase even though we invest money, time and work.
I don't even want to talk about funding YPG/PKK terrorists...

Your Goverment should stop their Hypocrisy bullcrap and act like an ally, this behaviour were you guys command and put pressure on everyone pisses us off.

 

[TheMightyBender]

“...Turkish National Defence Minister Hulusi Akar said the U.S. not handing over F-35s to Turkey would be illegal...”

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...ces-should-turkey-buy-russian-missile-system/

The US would send their blood and treasure to fight and die should Turkey be attacked and they invoke NATO Article 5.

Turkey already has been being attacked by a terror group for the past 4 decades, and then the US came and started arming those same people that have been attacking Turkey.

I am all for staying in the F-35 program (and obviously NATO), but lets face it, the US is far from being a good ally.

 

[OCguy]

Buddy, you Americans are the ones who refused Patriot sales to Turkey, and now you threating us with sanctions/excluding from project for S-400 purchase even though we invest money, time and work.
I don't even want to talk about funding YPG/PKK terrorists...

Your Goverment should stop their Hypocrisy bullcrap and act like an ally, this behaviour were you guys command and put pressure on everyone pisses us off.

We aren't going to transfer our most sensitive and advanced technology to a state that has an active AA battery supplied by one of the adversaries the tech is developed for.

You feel as strongly about it as the US congress does. If that opinion makes someone not an ally, despite everything else I listed, then I doubt there ever was a real alliance.

 

[Kitco]

Whats the meaning of shopping american products for billions of dollars but your not allowed to use them because daddy US doesn't want you to use them, when it comes across with their interests? For example we cant use them on israel not egypt not on greece not on saudi so who is left then only russia and iran only because the US doesn't like them.

Actually US likes Turkey is just bullshit they would love to see us teared apart. But the truth is its not that easy. Instead they sell some low effect shit just so that they show their self as friend and from the other side they support our enemies. Thats the truth of Bandit state US.

 

[bsruzm]

Such a Question makes no sense.

Turkey has a POWERFUL Military, has a abnormal Patriotic population and we have home advantage, you think they are that retarded?

Well, let's hope that I am wrong.

 

[OCguy]

Turkey already has been being attacked by a terror group for the past 4 decades, and then the US came and started arming those same people that have been attacking Turkey.

I am all for staying in the F-35 program (and obviously NATO), but lets face it, the US is far from being a good ally.

Both sides have benefited, not all of it is widely known or published.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/wikileaks/turkey/10baghdad481.html

 

[Blackwolf12]

Well, let's hope that I am wrong.

There is nothing to gain from attacking turkey. Yes US has supplied YPG/PKK, but that is widely different from attacking us directly.

Both sides have benefited, not all of it is widely known or published.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/wikileaks/turkey/10baghdad481.html

Us buying S400 has nothing to do with the threat to the F35. Israeli F35’s fly over Syria all the time well within range of Russian S400. The marines just flew their first F35s over Syria as well. Do you really think the Russians don’t already know what the RCS of the F35 is? The Chinese already stole 30 terabytes of f35 data.

There is no super amazingly secret about the F35. Yes it is an amazing fighter jet. It’s benefits are that it has low rcs, AESA radar, and superior data sharing. There is no master flaw within the aircraft that the Russians will exploit in order to be able to defeat the F35.

We said the Americans could examine the s400. We said we would put our own sensors in them. This is a amazing opportunity to examine the system designed to take down stealth fighters.

The real reason your blocking F35 to us is to stop us from getting closer ties with Russia.

Maybe you should’ve just sold us patriot from the beginning.

 

[OCguy]

Nobody can stop you from getting closer to Russia if that's what you want. But choosing Russia over NATO doesn't make you an enemy...it just means both sides lose the benefits of the alliance.

I don't think the Turkish government is as eager to end the relationship with the US as some here make it sound. But I've been wrong before.

 

[Test7]

More than twice actually....why would the US want to attack Turkey? Who is spreading such things?

You are right bro. US is using proxy against Turkey. if you want i can explain what i am saying.

How would you feel if you saw this man's posters with Turkish soldiers? What would be the ideas about Turkey?
But we saw this posters.

 

[OCguy]

Sad that the US Boogeyman is being used once again as a way to shore up internal support.

Whichever way Turkey chooses to go, I hope it ends up being the right choice. Genuinely. Cheers.

 

[bsruzm]

but that is widely different from attacking us directly.

They won't cross border and attack us but how are you going to fly your planes above Americans? They aren't gonna leave their key assets.

 

[Faith_of_the_Fallen]

We already know that (except for Israel, they are allowed to modify critical software components of F35s) USA can single handedly transform the entire F35 fleet useless. It is a very highly centralized and networked system. NATO has shown numerious times how "sincere" they have been acting in terms of giving Turkey the capability of some passable air defence systems; while we have ballistic missiles heaven in Iran, where they probably obtained the know how for implementing nuclear warheads. It has been experienced crystal clear numerious times, NATO will not stand by Turkey as we have seen numerious times in Syria. Of course, it is not possible to exit from NATO instantly due to critical defense relationships; but i am glad that finally the military bureacracy in Turkey realized that Turkey is viewed as a disposable and expandable partner in NATO. Therefore , we have to reach a new middle ground and relationship status in terms of West-Turkey; and definitely not depend on their mercy and blessing. It had been worrisome and heartbreaking to see ourself begging for protection in terms of air defence from NATO when all hell was breaking at the neighbour; NATO planted those air defence batteries only as a show, when you check their operation boundaries, then used those batteries as a political tool to harass Turkey. I definitely dont trust NATO to stand by Turkey in crisis; they do and will use NATO capabilities as a way to get political leverage against Turkey. These aids which should have been accepted as normal for alliance are blessed to Turkey as some kind of mercy; i dont call such a relationship "alliance". I am happy to see that the military bureacracy in Turkey finally confirmed that and making new policies to reach a new equilibrium.

19-0003-19-0006 have been allocated to Turkey. Training is still ongoing.

I completely understand why my Turkish brothers are not happy with the US on more than one issue. I won't even tell them they are wrong to feel that way.

But if one is completely objective, it is easy to see why this is an issue. I hope Turkey decides to go with the F-35, and bolster their already world-class military with these amazing machines.

 

[graphican]

• Turkey should diversify. You do not put all of your eggs in one basket.
• Can NATO afford to let Turkey go out of the club? F35s will come again, Turkey is a partner to the program.

 

[OCguy]

^ The urgency for Anti-air is Turkey's own doing. Arresting 300 pilot's during a likely staged-coup hurt air defense.

The anti-American / Anti-semetic rhetoric I've read recently sounds exactly like that of hardline theocracies. So we have likely outgrown the situation, that's life.

 

[ziya]

There is nothing to gain from attacking turkey. Yes US has supplied YPG/PKK, but that is widely different from attacking us directly.


Us buying S400 has nothing to do with the threat to the F35. Israeli F35’s fly over Syria all the time well within range of Russian S400. The marines just flew their first F35s over Syria as well. Do you really think the Russians don’t already know what the RCS of the F35 is? The Chinese already stole 30 terabytes of f35 data.

There is no super amazingly secret about the F35. Yes it is an amazing fighter jet. It’s benefits are that it has low rcs, AESA radar, and superior data sharing. There is no master flaw within the aircraft that the Russians will exploit in order to be able to defeat the F35.

We said the Americans could examine the s400. We said we would put our own sensors in them. This is a amazing opportunity to examine the system designed to take down stealth fighters.
The real reason your blocking F35 to us is to stop us from getting closer ties with Russia.

Maybe you should’ve just sold us patriot from the beginning.

Israels F35 fly with a part that make it visible so the russian S400 can not get information about original F35