Turkey’s S-400 vs F-35 dilemma in 2019

[UkroTurk]

For those who refuse to purchase F35:
What would you do with TCG ANADOLU if you didn't have any F35 B?
Would you rather look for sea harriers or search Russian museums if there were left some yak 141s?

 

[damm1t]

For those who refuse to purchase F35:
What would you do with TCG ANADOLU if you didn't have any F35 B?
Would you rather look for sea harriers or search Russian museums if there were left some yak 141s?

Mate, let's have both if possible but the problem here is that US will keep using F35s for his dictates. Let's say that we cancelled S-400 deal and got a batch of 5 F35 fighters.
Then something happened and decided to buy a crucial non-Nato system with good price and ToT package because US didn't require our needs as price and ToT.
BOOM! They threat us with second batch of F35s.
We launched an operation over YPG.
BOOM! They threat us with second batch of F35s.
We made trade with someone that US sanctions,
BOOM! They threat us with second batch of F35s.
Got the point?

It will go and go like this. Always chain on the neck. That's a fact that US doesn't treat us as an equal.
I would go for S-400 because;

- We are already working on similar system, co-op with Europeans, Russians have alternatives so they can't dictate us everything they wish.
- We are in urgent need of missile defense systems.
- S-400s have huge deterrence impact.
- Possible future co-production of newer versions.

I would prefer operate UCAVS and helicopters on LHD rather than being lil'bitch of these yankees. One way or another they will come up with a solution and learn how wrong to threat us like that.

 

[UkroTurk]

Mate, let's have both if possible but the problem here is that US will keep using F35s for his dictates. Let's say that we cancelled S-400 deal and got a batch of 5 F35 fighters.
Then something happened and decided to buy a crucial non-Nato system with good price and ToT package because US didn't require our needs as price and ToT.
BOOM! They threat us with second batch of F35s.
We launched an operation over YPG.
BOOM! They threat us with second batch of F35s.
We made trade with someone that US sanctions,
BOOM! They threat us with second batch of F35s.
Got the point?

It will go and go like this. Always chain on the neck. That's a fact that US doesn't treat us as an equal.
I would go for S-400 because;

- We are already working on similar system, co-op with Europeans, Russians have alternatives so they can't dictate us everything they wish.
- We are in urgent need of missile defense systems.
- S-400s have huge deterrence impact.
- Possible future co-production of newer versions.

I would prefer operate UCAVS and helicopters on LHD rather than being lil'bitch of these yankees. One way or another they will come up with a solution and learn how wrong to threat us like that.

Okay why had we bound ownselves with f35 As and Bs before you ( not especially you) decided to be free?

Why would a government have started some projects if the USA were the least reliable country in the world? USA consistently keeps its style of behavior.
İt's not the first day we were blackmailed by US .They have always been threatening and daunting. Why our decision makers had us joined into contracts? Somebody is sucrifising the country just for personal and political revenge.
You just don't know those who want to start new relationship with. Russians!

TCG Anadolu seems to be under risks.

 

[TheMightyBender]

For those who refuse to purchase F35:
What would you do with TCG ANADOLU if you didn't have any F35 B?
Would you rather look for sea harriers or search Russian museums if there were left some yak 141s?

I am pro-F35 myself but that is the least of the problems associated with not buying the fighters.
The government never even explicitly stated that TCG anadolu will be used as an aircraft carrier (LCA). As far as we know, we might never buy F-35Bs for TCG anadolu even if we can. We might simply use the ship as a landing helicopter dock (LHD). In fact most people think that it is more useful if we use this ship as an LHD instead of LCA.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Well I am not a Turkish citizen.

But I voted S-400.

 

[damm1t]

Okay why had we bound ownselves with f35 As and Bs before you ( not especially you) decided to be free?

Why would a government have started some projects if the USA were the least reliable country in the world? USA consistently keeps its style of behavior.
İt's not the first day we were blackmailed by US .They have always been threatening and daunting. Why our decision makers had us joined into contracts? Somebody is sucrifising the country just for personal and political revenge.
You just don't know those who want to start new relationship with. Russians!

TCG Anadolu seems to be under risks.

We joined the project in 2002, you know. No lying, we gained from that project a lot, there are papers inked, it was a win-win situation for everybody. Our companies are awarded. If I would run the country back then, I would join it too just to gain experience. As you know that the dynamics of the world is contiously super-fast changing, govts and decision makers, policies change too. No one could foresee the world's current state from 17 years ago. Saddam was still president of Iraq, make the calculation. It's even almost impossible to predict next 10 years what will happen. I don't say let's marry with Russians, but we can't keep bowing the US always too.

 

[UkroTurk]

Emotional Forecasting , foreseeing it's not way the industrial countries or organizations do act. Turkish companies have strong contracts , project still is going on and our companies have further opportunities apart from our order.

As far as we know they added ski jump on to TCG ANADOLU so that they decided to have s/vtol fighters. There are many items of news Deniz Tayyare Okulu and Marine Force decided to purchase 37 f35B. Even though people discussed about sea harriers to train pilots.

Please remember USA 20 trillion USD + EU 20 trillion USD. However we don't have big trade with USA, They could destroy Turkish -EU trade easily. Allah korusun if sanctions started, we wouldn't be able to purchase a little piece of metal. PRC, Ja or Korea have as same as interest based relationship with USA.
How has Trump been threatening china?
Chinese don't take it as bowing .

 

[TheMightyBender]

We joined the project in 2002, you know. No lying, we gained from that project a lot, there are papers inked, it was a win-win situation for everybody. Our companies are awarded. If I would run the country back then, I would join it too just to gain experience. As you know that the dynamics of the world is contiously super-fast changing, govts and decision makers, policies change too. No one could foresee the world's current state from 17 years ago. Saddam was still president of Iraq, make the calculation. It's even almost impossible to predict next 10 years what will happen. I don't say let's marry with Russians, but we can't keep bowing the US always too.

Minor correction: Turkey has been in the F-35 program since 1999 as far as I know, not 2002

As far as we know they added ski jump on to TCG ANADOLU so that they decided to have s/vtol fighters.

Maybe they did maybe they didnt, I cant be certain. But I can respond to two of your sentences with certainty:

What would you do with TCG ANADOLU if you didn't have any F35 B?

Use it as an LHD

TCG Anadolu seems to be under risks.

No

 

[UkroTurk]

We haven't been able to an aircraft carrier then?

 

[TheMightyBender]

We haven't able to an aircraft carrier then?

Not yet. Its not an aircraft carrier until a fighter flies from it

 

[UkroTurk]

He claims , on the Trumps desk second prosecution order related with Halkbank and violation of Iran sanctions.
I dunno how the right legal phrase would be but Trump is hanging two law suit up.
According to s400 decision he probably will run sanctions. But its clear Erdoğan put the decision off after election.lets see.
I wish there we'rent any fool challenge.

Edit

I have forgotten to vote
Just voted ... Of course for f35.

 

[TheMightyBender]

Some Comments and Observations Regarding the Poll​

The poll of this thread asks this question: “F-35 vs S-400; If Turkey had to choose one, which one should it choose?”.
The poll started with the F-35 choice ahead of the S-400. But the S-400 camp gained momentum as more and more Pakistani members rushed to the thread. But at the end the F-35 camp took the lead again.
As of now the two options are pretty even; with 54 votes for the F-35 and 52 for the S-400.

Here are the conclusions I draw from the poll so far:

• The race between the F-35 and S-400 is pretty tight, there is no clear winner overall.
• Turkish members seem to be split roughly 60/40 in favor of the F-35. Most of the pro S-400 camp offer the unreliability of the US as justification.
• Pakistani members are vehemently pro S-400. Probably due to their own issues regarding military acquisition from the US in recent years.
• Other foreigners (non Turks and non Pakistanis) seem to favor the F-35.
• The choice of S-400 over F-35 seems to be mostly politically motivated rather than due to technical aspects of the two systems.

 

[MKALE1]

Pro-nato kemalists, fetoists and some western members here voted for F-35.
Logical and pro-independent every Turkish members voted for S-400. In reality, the owner of power in Turkey is in the position of making decision. Thank to Allah, they are in favor of S-400 too.

 

[Nein]

I went with S400 but man the F35 is one sexy *** plane not to mention the most advanced one it is hard to give that up.

Turkiye is literally on a double edge sword here. Unbelievable its like the Ottoman days where they purchased those dreadnoughts only for it to be confiscated. Turkiye shelled out money too for this F35 project only to have the planes nearly blocked even worst case scenario confiscated for good.

Tough times to be honest. It would be hard to give up the F35. If they block the F35 all I say is close down incirlik and kick the americunts out from Turkiye.

 

[MKALE1]

He claims , on the Trumps desk second prosecution order related with Halkbank and violation of Iran sanctions.
I dunno how the right legal phrase would be but Trump is hanging two law suit up.
According to s400 decision he probably will run sanctions. But its clear Erdoğan put the decision off after election.lets see.
I wish there we'rent any fool challenge.

Edit

I have forgotten to vote
Just voted ... Of course for f35.

And now western mercenary started spreading the fear for creating a public opinion against S-400. Just trash, even if the economy collapsed completely, Turkish people never give up to support Erdoğan and S-400 decision.