Turkey is playing a dangerous game...

[UkroTurk]

And to think we helped these idiots by fighting in the Korean war and even sent troops to Afghanistan to help them.

USA is shooting itself in the foot.

Turkey won't be there to help this fake-ally when it's time for the 2nd Korean war or Iran.

Maybe some other major nato power can help USA

Turkey has been naive and helped US thinking they would be with us as friends and allies for a long time. This has been a wake up call for Turkey.

USA is not a true friend/ally but act's just like a gold digger.

Funny thing is their strategy is so obvious everyone can see it, yet they think they are super intelligent and the rest of the world is stupid.

I think this is the start of the end of USA as the only super power they are still butthurt from the UN vote on Jerusalem.

May God bless Russia and China and let Turkey, Pakistan, Iran and others join forces with them.
It's time we teach USA some manners.



Turkish army should take all those weapons and send them as a gift to Mexico and broadcast it in the media.



Problem with that is Syria in the past has supported pkk against Turkey, we threatened to invade them in the past.

And today Assad dislikes Turkey so he might use the kurds against us.

Russia I am not sure, but they being a super power would need some leverage against Turkey and the only leverage they can use is the pkk/pyd.

Turkey needs to be 100% sure that Assad and Russia is against the creation of a new country in northern Syria. If we side with them as you said and they do go on with the creation of this kurd country later on then there isn't much Turkey can do but start a direct confrontation against Russia and Syria.

I think Turkey is playing the game good right now with FSA and others until we clear the mess in northern Syria.

We really don't care what happens when the problematic kurds in north syria is cleared we just want thing to return to normal and that Syria's territorial integrity is kept intact.

The only thing I am uncertain about now is USA's next move in Syria.



I agree completely, but problem is China.

China is too passive, it feels like Russia is the only one standing up against US. If China would be more active like Russia then I have no doubt middle east would side with these two powers instead.

Because reality is that Russia isn't strong enough on it's own against the USA, but with active backing from China and support from Turkey, Iran, Pakistan and ME countries. Then we are more powerful than US.



I see 2 logical explanations to all these wars started by US:

1) Test weapons systems.

2) The world is becoming over populated and not enough resources for everyone, so US real agenda is to decrease world population.

Yes there is the 3rd greater Israel, but if that was the plan Israel would have taken south Syria by now. So I don't think thats the plan.

It's also strange that Syria, Iraq, Iran all border Turkey and US wants war in these countries.
Maybe it could be a plan for something against Turkey?

Not sure really.

Ok so ISIS was created by the USA, and from ISIS actions we saw they tried to create a new country that included all the arab countries.

This was interesting that ISIS tried to create a new country that included all the oil resources in the ME. Maybe USA is attempting to create a totally new country that will become a colony of USA so USA gets all the oil from ME?

Not sure....



Yeah that was so funny, the USA helped Iran not once but TWICE!

I think the planners at Pentagon has some real EGO issues, they just can't expect that their strategy/plan isn't working, so they keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

Also USA seem's to under estimate everyone else which leads to even more mistakes.



I think it's done correctly, by advertising like this we gave time for civilians to leave Afrin.

It's easier to control an empty area than an area with tens of thousands of civilians. Not to mention the civilians that would die initially if they hadn't left the area.

I think it's psychological as well, many in PYD have surrendered to turkish army as soon as we entered the area, saying "we were forced to join".

All this advertisement makes the event seem more scary than it actually is. In this age of media and internet we can't afford too many civilians to die. If it was in the past we would just go in and kill everyone in our path, but times have changed.

You don't want this event to turn into a "poor me genocide", that would work against us in the UN.



Turkey knows USA can't just invade Turkey and win, even without russian help Turkey would survive an all out US attack because they are far away from home.

Unless they used nukes that is, but if they did I'm sure Pakistan would help us out and I really doubt we don't have our own nukes.

Turkey is in a special position here, we have many friends in the west and we are part of NATO. This makes it even more difficult for the US to attack Turkey.

If the US would attack Turkey NATO would fall apart as no one would trust the US any more.

I think everyone thinks too highly of USA, they are so much talk and little action.

If USA is all that powerful would Russia today own Crimea?

People say China is a paper tiger, but I think it's the USA that is a paper tiger.

How many wars have the USA won? They can't even win small wars against much weaker enemies.

World war 2 doesn't count it was the russians that did most of the actual fighting.

[QUOTE="Dalit, post: 10187463, member: 137989"The Turks have shown how you eliminate US sponsored terror army. You do it by force and action. Not by empty words.

Bir dokun, bin işit. Bro bayağı dolmuşsun

 

[FirstClass]

@Ulysses you have a lot of messages to respond too

Ulysses is thinking of a way to blame all these posts on Turkey somehow . "TURKEY HAS GONE TOO FAR!" he'll say. Then he'll give us a lecture about how the US plans the best interests of the region and the world. Because in his mind, Turks, Iranians, Arabians, Iraqis, Syrians, Israelis etc. are all lesser nations that needs to be an ally of US, the good guys. If they are not, then they are the bad guys and they must be eliminated. Because Ulysses has the "master plan" that will solve everything as long as we obey it.

I think that, in order to solve United States' "big brother" or "peace keeper" role, the US needs to experience what all the other great empires have suffered. Ottoman Empire had to fall in order to open the eyes of all the people within the Empire. So did the French, so did the Germans, so did the Russians and so did the British. Each and every great empire in the world has suffered utter destruction or complete separation. They took lessons from it not to play the great imperialism game on too many people at once. US needs to see that somehow to take that lesson. Because they don't learn from reading the histories of others. And it will happen one day. No empire can last forever. We've seen that. Even the great Mongols have fallen. Everything comes to an end.

 

[YeBeWarned]

The US is now on the same path with Turkey as it is with Pakistan. The only difference is that Turkey knows how to truly respond to American terror and Pakistan usually doesn't.

The Turks have shown how you eliminate US sponsored terror army. You do it by force and action. Not by empty words.

Turkey is in much better position than Pakistan ever was or ever will be ..

 

[Elvin]

As Turkey is becoming a larger and more powerful military, economic and political power, the US will become hostile to it. The Americans have already predicted a future war with Turkey- read the below by famed geo-political scientist George Firedman who says the US will fight a Turkey-Japan alliance in the next couple of decades

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/george-friedman-on-world-war-iii-776748/

That aside- I live in the States at the moment, and let me tell you the American people have no clue about what is truly happening in Syria and who the Kurds/ SDF/ FSA, etc. are. The mainstream media (CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, CBS, etc.) here did not mention one (1) (single) thing about the Turkish military operations in Syria, even though it is supposedly against US foreign policy objectives in the region. The American people are oblivious to what their government is truly doing and how they are spending their tax dollars. I also find myself puzzled at the immense ignorance these so called strategist and military planners have about the region, different people and realities. On a final note, it took some big balls to DIRECTLY intervene in a US zone of interest, with US operatives on the ground and US supplies pouring in, that is something no country in the region can say so I respect that, and I said in another thread that the law of FORCE always prevails, and Turkey needs to earn it's respect back, good job!

 

[Serpentine]

This very thread is an indication of how the region negatively sees US presence in region, if we are to take this forum's members as simple population. I don't care about some sell out countries like Saudis or UAE who actually invite US to attack other countries in region, but, the general population of ME is overwhelmingly against U.S interference in region, which always ends up fucking up. I don't have any problem with U.S economic contributions in ME, but when it comes to political and especially military matters, U.S should pack up and **** off. It has created nothing but misery, death and destruction.
Who invited you to Syria? Your whole presence in Syria is illegal. Not only that, but actually training a mercenary force to gain a foothold in region.

I don't support all aspects of Turkish operation in Syria (especially considering Erdogan's past actions which contributed to current state of affairs), but Turkey's concerns about U.S proxies in its borders, especially since they are being armed by US, is fully understandable and legitimate. Hopefully it ends eventually with U.S having to leave Syria and region in the longer term.

In end, I wish for no or minimal civilian casualties in this whole process, Syria has had enough.

 

[Fenasi Kerim]

Let's be honest here..

Turkey doesn't want war with Syria; they want to make sure the Kurds don't get an independent state. The Kurds and the Syrian troops have mostly avoided fighting each other... stop with the fake news.

I understand why Turks are pissed off with the pkk and kurds for bombing turkish cities. If Kurds want freedom that's the wrong way to go about things. By bombing civilians you're going to piss off the local population and lose support. Try using peaceful protests, if it turns nasty then defend yourself then you'll get more support both locally and internationally. This is what we were trying to teach Kurds...

The further Turkey presses on the worse it will be for you. Things will never be the same from an economic stand point.

Always have I supported Turkey in the past but this has gone to far. This is not how allies are supposed to behave...

We had a plan for Syria for peace in the region.

It's not logical for Turkey to be in this position... This just opens the door for Turkey to be attcked.. Don't be over confident either... Your Military has no experience in a major war.

"Turkey has gone to far" hahaha go eat a hamburger then a hotdog American c*nt, what will the US do about it? come try to invade Turkey instead of using your proxy wh*res, you Americans are the most two faced dishonest people on the earth (not just your government) even your own kind the Europeans are starting to mistrust and hate you.

We saw how you played Iraq - Iran, how you play the Saudi puppets, how you play with the blood of innocents in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan etc

1000+ years of Turkish rule in the Middle East, people lived in relative peace, 50+ years of American involvement people have died in there millions. You shouldn't be lecturing anyone about peace.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

When Turkey says enough is enough

 

[bosanski vojnik]

IMO with this operation Turkey can gain the respect of all Muslim world just like Naser did with Egypt after the Suez crisis

 

[Cybernetics]

Good to see Turkey making military moves. Turkey will not fall victim to terrorism and "balkanization". Realise what they are doing now is protecting the security of the entire continent in the long run. They have the strongest conventional military in the region but hopefully they don't get bogged down by guerrilla warfare.

Though the US stopped applying direct military force in the region like during the Gulf and Afghan wars, the underlying grand strategy had not changed. To be honest I don't think the Middle East will ever have true peace and prosperity if the US military is stationed there, any Eurasian power would provide better regional leadership, it's a fact of geography. Continental leadership will prefer working towards better relations with each other (due to wanting continental connection) while the US prefers division into more manageable and mutually adversarial states (to prevent continental connection), ensuring regional balance of power. Balance of power will mean no surplus energy can be spent challenging the American dominance. It's not even fighting against or militarily challenging the US but the act of connecting the continent even with no dominant power will challenge global American leadership or remove it entirely.

Whats wrong with American global leadership?
Inherently there is nothing wrong with America wanting to lead the world. Nothing wrong with a global leader that can provide benefits for the rest but due to the nature of geography there are natural forces against American leadership after a certain point. Eurasia (Europe, Russia, Middle East, Central Asia South Asia, and East Asia) is what's considered the "World Island" while America is also an island, a much smaller one. Most of human history took place on the world island and will continue to in the future due to the sheer landmass, population, resources, and tendency for empires to form laterally. As the peripheries of the "heartland" began to rise in recent years, they sought to connect the continent in projects like SCO and BRI to hedge against their naval weakness in the face of US navy and to develop their interior. This is a hedge against trade terms and institutions run solely by America as nearly all trade crosses the oceans controlled by America. If connecting the continent is not possible then nearly all investment, industry, high value chain will be concentrated along the American controlled coastal trade, while the interior/continent will remain structurally poor. American leadership will naturally create structural unevenness in Eurasia.

Eurasian continental integration bypasses major naval choke points, creating insulation to naval dominance and will give rise to continental powers not seen in centuries. By the act of Eurasia rising USA will be out of the game.

US is not there to provide leadership (not until balkanization is complete) but to ensure the "American Century" through controlling and disrupting the continental choke points/zones. American Navy can ensure the dominance of the seas without much of an issue or at least disrupt when necessary but lacked the ability to influence the continent. The Gulf and Afghan wars were the perfect opportunity to create the staging ground for continental dominance. The support of Kurdish forces is just the current iteration of that, along with other rebel groups in the Levant and central Asia.

The US doesn't care so much about the oil itself going to America as they can be entirely self sufficient and become a net exporter fairly easily. They care about maintaining the reserve currency status and dollar denominated commodity trade in physical and derivatives.

Control of the Levant and central Asia will control the entire continent's ability to connect (This is also why I think Turkey's deeper cooperation with other Turkic nations is positive). As the region grows stronger, control becomes less important compared to disruption, creating blocking zones to prevent regional formation. As long as America remains in the region, regional powers remain islands onto themselves. When the continental interior rises, there will be attempts at disruption of the key blocking zone and will push investments towards the the continental coast US navy controlled coast.

The centre piece of the continental middle east is Iran and its effectively a blocked zone due to sanctions and conflict that surround it, its connection with the world is restricted to the American controlled ocean. Turkey is currently being contained through the backing of Kurds to create "perpetual war". They did their work against ISIS but is now becoming a tool against Turkey to prevent eventual connectivity with Iran and other countries. Unlike the other regional powers, Turkey still has some breathing room left due to the inertia of recent good relations with America, it must act quickly before the noose around its neck tightens. Kurds sadly are also victims of major power relations but sympathy for one group cannot overpower regional interests.

US will provide "leadership" once the entire continent is balkanized and submits. If you are fine with it then allow the situation to proceed without making moves. If you are not fine with it then what Turkey is doing is positive. US is not good or bad due to their beliefs/ideology and Eurasian countries are not evil due to their ideologies either, it's the nature of geography/geopolitics. In the attempt of America trying to overcome geography they must create a boogeyman on the continent no matter how positive they maybe for the region. Once the continent connects with no American bases present, USA will be isolated and will not be able to dictate any international institution even if they remain the dominant military and economy, that's why the continent cannot connect.

 

[Nefer]

I agree completely, but problem is China.

China is too passive, it feels like Russia is the only one standing up against US. If China would be more active like Russia then I have no doubt middle east would side with these two powers instead.

Because reality is that Russia isn't strong enough on it's own against the USA, but with active backing from China and support from Turkey, Iran, Pakistan and ME countries. Then we are more powerful than US.

China can not be bothered with the middle east right now, it is addressing different concerns like preparing for the coming Solar minimum. Which in a summary means.

Food Security &
Transport Security

 

[Kamil_baku]

Raymond Thomas, commander of US Special Operation Commands

The self righteous attitude presented in this very thread is the prime exsample why even the most pro western Turks (such as me) increasingly view US involvement in conflicts with scepticism.

I mean you gotta think about about it, someone comes from thousands of km away to your neigborhood, bombs it to oblivion, leaves it in a even bigger mess than it was before already, then starts arming groups including your sworn enemies in the name of bringing stability to the chaos he created in the first place and then threatens you and tells you that your playing with fire when you try to defend yourself.

I cant help but to ask, do they really think we are that stupid?

I think US misunderstood the concept of peace when it thinks it can bring peace by pouring weapons in one of the most violent regions in the world, or any other part of the world for this matter.



Having said that, this is how you legitimize a terrorist group:

I know buddy, many Turks lost their lives too.

Just wonderful, FETO boss is still in Yankee-land, where he truly belongs to

of course not man, what are you talking about?
Erdogan knew that he needs public support and also he needs to offer peace first to Kurdish region. He let them speak their language and all other things. But PKK didnt expect that and started to kill police or SOldiers.. Erdogan used it and started a war against them..
1) Kurdish people understood Erdogan as he offered peace but it was PKK that didnt accept. Also, Kurdish peoples main problem was the language which he gave the right to teach in Kurdish, have their kurdish tv and so on...
2) When whole Turkey started to get angry at him that start the war, enough that our Police die, he satrted the real game. even though almost 1000 Turkish security person died. People were behind him because they wanted it...

About Feto, From Fetos mouth, 2:15, when Erdogan meet him to get his support behind him, take his advice like a "master", after the meeting,when Erdogan leaving the building, he said to his friend that first of all, We need to make them down after all...
Basically, he knew that eventually he will fight him, and Feto also knew it as he spied his elevator. But, Erdogan won!
I am sorry but why he need to arm PKK? its so stupid who ever told you...

 

[mike2000 is back]

With only 70 cents in the treasury and a couple of F/4s Turkey went out to liberate the Turkish Cypriots from Greece, the grand daddy of the Western Civilization!!! This time it's less dangerous and crazy!!!!

That's also because turkey has been a crucial member of NATO. If turkey was like say Iran(a hostile non NATO member) then Western powers would never have tolerated that, Turkey wouldn't have dared attack in the first place.

 

[Targon]

YPG is the last hope of USA in the region, thats why they are twaddling like that. Not even themselves believe their words.

KRG is beaten back and put into its place. Assad with the help of Russia is clinging. Russians reached the borders of Iraq, deep into mid east. Iraq is no longer the lapdog of past. Turkey is acting independent. USA's foreign policy is failed in the region. Thats why they are pouring money into YPG without expecting return. YPG has a small population and no proper natural resources. If US had another choice they wouldnt give 2 cents about Syrian Kurds. Their another attempt to gain back power in mid east was Saudi "corruption" bullshit. They put their man in the lead, but Saudis will never have any importance for anybody outside of Arabian peninsula. They couldnt even subdue Qatar.

 

[CrimsonFury]

That's also because turkey has been a crucial member of NATO. If turkey was like say Iran(a hostile non NATO member) then Western powers would never have tolerated that, Turkey wouldn't have dared attack in the first place.

Don't underestimate us. That's what you did in Gallipoli and look how it ended for you. And here is another saying we like to use: we don't like to shed blood but should our fatherland face a direct threat we will cut the arteries of this world.

 

[[TR]AHMET]

it is winter time thats why it is normal that Turkey play with fire, dont worry be happy.