‘Too upset and angry’: Muslim teen barred from top London school for wearing veil quits

[liontk]

First of all, multiculturalism and tolerance does not mean that you maintain your culture while ridicule other's. Secondly, veil is something that has nothing to do with Islam for there is no such requirement in Quran or Hadith. There was indeed a time when veil was tolerable to some extent in West but no more and for good reason(s). In-fact it should not be acceptable anywhere in the world for it is not a religious obligation (as Sikh's turban etc) in the first place.

Even Sikhs don't insist on having a Kirpan (dagger) with them since in civilized societies, it is generally unacceptable to carry arms. Nobody has barred Muslims from practicing their religion, in fact when in States, I found it easier to follow Islam then when I was in Pakistan. However, doing nonsense in the name of Islam and labeling one's personal preferences as Islamic obligations/requirements is wrong.

These so-called pious Muslims bring bad name to Islam, and making it next to impossible for the remaining normal Muslims to live everywhere in the world. Is Islam all about enclosing a woman in a huge envelope? Does Islam require something else or it starts with and ends at covering woman's face? First these extremists have destroyed their own countries and now they are hell bent on doing the same in the countries where they have immigrated. Selfish people!

There should be a comprehensive ban on burqa-clad women. There is simply no place for this clownship in todays world. You do whatever you like to do in your house but in the public, no. If smoking can be banned in the supposedly multi-cultural and tolerant societies, this could also be.

@Akheilos , Read what @syedali73 wrote as it describes the issue at hand. We are fighting right now against a very dangerous ideology(my opinion) and it will harm west and asia included(ie pakistan's enormous sacrifice in war on terror) in the long run if it is kept unchecked. However like rome, we are slowly drifting from our ideals as a parallel can be made to the citizenships given in excess during the later part of the roman empire that were harmful to it's existence as the vandals and the northern Germanic tribes did not share the same ideals as the Romans did. Likewise if this remains unchecked, what is to say that Canada and america will not become breeding grounds like Europe with respect to self segregation and ISIS recruitment en mass. In the light of recent event in terms of middle east, the alarmist right wingers while ignorant and racist were in fact right about their allegation against muslims in europe and jihadist going by bucket loads to syria from europe are a proof of that. Now to my key point about niqab as I and many other folks see it as tool that further keeps the muslim community from segregating into the main community and will further amplify the disease that is rooting in the mainland of l'europe. In contrast, the same diaspora of muslims in Canada is performing much more differently in it's approach to segregation and @KingMamba can attest to the muslim community in america.

 

[Dubious]

First of all, multiculturalism and tolerance does not mean that you maintain your culture while ridicule other's. Secondly, veil is something that has nothing to do with Islam for there is no such requirement in Quran or Hadith. There was indeed a time when veil was tolerable to some extent in West but no more and for good reason(s). In-fact it should not be acceptable anywhere in the world for it is not a religious obligation (as Sikh's turban etc) in the first place.

Do you know in this very part of your post YOU have ridiculed someone's culture (coz a few sects in Islam put veil as obligation based on hadith and a few other put it as something that is better if you can practice it) while maintain your freedom to speak (your "adapted" culture)...And I am not speaking for myself but for a sect that does exist and is growing despite people claiming to object it....

Even Sikhs don't insist on having a Kirpan (dagger) with them since in civilized societies, it is generally unacceptable to carry arms. Nobody has barred Muslims from practicing their religion, in fact when in States, I found it easier to follow Islam then when I was in Pakistan. However, doing nonsense in the name of Islam and labeling one's personal preferences as Islamic obligations/requirements is wrong.

multiculturalism and tolerance does not mean that you maintain your culture while ridicule other's.

These so-called pious Muslims bring bad name to Islam, and making it next to impossible for the remaining normal Muslims to live everywhere in the world. Is Islam all about enclosing a woman in a huge envelope? Does Islam require something else or it starts with and ends at covering woman's face? First these extremists have destroyed their own countries and now they are hell bent on doing the same in the countries where they have immigrated. Selfish people!

multiculturalism and tolerance does not mean that you maintain your culture while ridicule other's.

There should be a comprehensive ban on burqa-clad women. There is simply no place for this clownship in todays world. You do whatever you like to do in your house but in the public, no. If smoking can be banned in the supposedly multi-cultural and tolerant societies, this could also be.

multiculturalism and tolerance does not mean that you maintain your culture while ridicule other's.


I say only 1 thing: practice what you preach!

Repeatedly you have ridiculed an idea which many follow "as their OWN choice" and can justify to you ...

Which many respect even if they dont follow....

We are fighting right now against a very dangerous ideology(my opinion) and it will harm west and asia included(ie pakistan's enormous sacrifice in war on terror) in the long run if it is kept unchecked. However like rome, we are slowly drifting from our ideals as a parallel can be made to the citizenships given in excess during the later part of the roman empire that were harmful to it's existence as the vandals and the northern Germanic tribes did not share the same ideals as the Romans did. Likewise if this remains unchecked, what is to say that Canada and america will not become breeding grounds like Europe with respect to self segregation and ISIS recruitment en mass.

By showing a form of phobia and distancing certain people you only create more recruits...


You are trying to equate a burqa to ISIS and terrorism...

In the light of recent event in terms of middle east, the alarmist right wingers while ignorant and racist were in fact right about their allegation against muslims in europe and jihadist going by bucket loads to syria from europe are a proof of that. Now to my key point about niqab as I and many other folks see it as tool that further keeps the muslim community from segregating into the main community and will further amplify the disease that is rooting in the mainland of l'europe.

It is sad that you are incapable of summarizing this into what is a reality...You are suffering from Islamophobia in 1 form or another...
And no it is not even subtle anymore...When you claim to respect and accept you dont reject out of ignorance nor do you ignorantly paint everyone with the same paint OUT OF FEAR....

You are calling someone's ideologies a disease, their practice a disease calling them extremists and a means of segregation while calling yourselves as liberal and tolerant? It is soo easy to call yourselves all the good name while avoiding the reality of what it is a phobia a fear of an ideology....

When I sit in a bus or a train and see a Jew, I dont cringe that he/ she may be mossad and may kill the child on a beach....nor do I cringe the same when I see a man in turban nor do I feel the same when I see a woman wearing a burqa....why should I ?

I dont see why some of you wash away your tolerance based on what the media is saying and painting everyone with the same brush?

I do not agree with the ideology of niqab, I have practiced it before and yes I am very well aware that in the West it attracts more attention than its purpose which is to not attract attention...I am aware of this but a child (the girl in this article) who was born in UK she was thought about individuality, she didnt use the niqab before but CHOSE it just in Summer....and wore it with pride coz she knew her culture (being a British) is tolerant and doesnt discriminate...she got an extra boost when she was allowed to do O levels with the niqab.....

but when she got the grades to go to A levels in a school where she has been for 5 yrs, which let her and the former students do their exams in Niqab ...

BUT SUDDENLY she feels the full impact of intolerance from her OWN society....

Put yourself in her shoes....Were this in a stage, like the school maybe said due to security reasons faces must be shown or something along those lines...it would have been understood but when you claim to have liberal education for women empowerment than reject HER CHOICE...

based on some phobia...well you tell me what that is!

 

[TankMan]

First of all, multiculturalism and tolerance does not mean that you maintain your culture while ridicule other's. Secondly, veil is something that has nothing to do with Islam for there is no such requirement in Quran or Hadith. There was indeed a time when veil was tolerable to some extent in West but no more and for good reason(s). In-fact it should not be acceptable anywhere in the world for it is not a religious obligation (as Sikh's turban etc) in the first place.

Even Sikhs don't insist on having a Kirpan (dagger) with them since in civilized societies, it is generally unacceptable to carry arms. Nobody has barred Muslims from practicing their religion, in fact when in States, I found it easier to follow Islam then when I was in Pakistan. However, doing nonsense in the name of Islam and labeling one's personal preferences as Islamic obligations/requirements is wrong.

These so-called pious Muslims bring bad name to Islam, and making it next to impossible for the remaining normal Muslims to live everywhere in the world. Is Islam all about enclosing a woman in a huge envelope? Does Islam require something else or it starts with and ends at covering woman's face? First these extremists have destroyed their own countries and now they are hell bent on doing the same in the countries where they have immigrated. Selfish people!

There should be a comprehensive ban on burqa-clad women. There is simply no place for this clownship in todays world. You do whatever you like to do in your house but in the public, no. If smoking can be banned in the supposedly multi-cultural and tolerant societies, this could also be.

Do you know in this very part of your post YOU have ridiculed someone's culture (coz a few sects in Islam put veil as obligation based on hadith and a few other put it as something that is better if you can practice it) while maintain your freedom to speak (your "adapted" culture)...And I am not speaking for myself but for a sect that does exist and is growing despite people claiming to object it....


multiculturalism and tolerance does not mean that you maintain your culture while ridicule other's.

multiculturalism and tolerance does not mean that you maintain your culture while ridicule other's.

multiculturalism and tolerance does not mean that you maintain your culture while ridicule other's.

I say only 1 thing: practice what you preach!

Repeatedly you have ridiculed an idea which many follow "as their OWN choice" and can justify to you ...

Which many respect even if they dont follow....


By showing a form of phobia and distancing certain people you only create more recruits...


You are trying to equate a burqa to ISIS and terrorism...




It is sad that you are incapable of summarizing this into what is a reality...You are suffering from Islamophobia in 1 form or another...
And no it is not even subtle anymore...When you claim to respect and accept you dont reject out of ignorance nor do you ignorantly paint everyone with the same paint OUT OF FEAR....

You are calling someone's ideologies a disease, their practice a disease calling them extremists and a means of segregation while calling yourselves as liberal and tolerant? It is soo easy to call yourselves all the good name while avoiding the reality of what it is a phobia a fear of an ideology....

When I sit in a bus or a train and see a Jew, I dont cringe that he/ she may be mossad and may kill the child on a beach....nor do I cringe the same when I see a man in turban nor do I feel the same when I see a woman wearing a burqa....why should I ?

I dont see why some of you wash away your tolerance based on what the media is saying and painting everyone with the same brush?

I do not agree with the ideology of niqab, I have practiced it before and yes I am very well aware that in the West it attracts more attention than its purpose which is to not attract attention...I am aware of this but a child (the girl in this article) who was born in UK she was thought about individuality, she didnt use the niqab before but CHOSE it just in Summer....and wore it with pride coz she knew her culture (being a British) is tolerant and doesnt discriminate...she got an extra boost when she was allowed to do O levels with the niqab.....

but when she got the grades to go to A levels in a school where she has been for 5 yrs, which let her and the former students do their exams in Niqab ...

BUT SUDDENLY she feels the full impact of intolerance from her OWN society....

Put yourself in her shoes....Were this in a stage, like the school maybe said due to security reasons faces must be shown or something along those lines...it would have been understood but when you claim to have liberal education for women empowerment than reject HER CHOICE...

based on some phobia...well you tell me what that is!

Now both these arguments are very valid, I have a bit of a middle-ground view to this.

In-fact it should not be acceptable anywhere in the world for it is not a religious obligation (as Sikh's turban etc) in the first place.

Certain sects and interpretations do consider it to be a religious obligation, so I disagree with this. However, I do understand why a veil does not fit in modern society so In my opinion, they should ban covering of the face in public (without specifically targeting the veil).

Even Sikhs don't insist on having a Kirpan (dagger) with them since in civilized societies, it is generally unacceptable to carry arms.

If they want to, Sikhs can legally carry their Kirpans around in the UK.
Knives: the laws on buying and carrying - GOV.UK

Good reasons for carrying a knife
Examples of good reasons to carry a knife in public can include:

• taking knives you use at work to and from work
• you’re taking knives to a gallery or museum to be exhibited
• the knife is going to be used for theatre, film, television, historical reenactment or religious purposes (eg the kirpan some Sikhs carry)

These so-called pious Muslims bring bad name to Islam, and making it next to impossible for the remaining normal Muslims to live everywhere in the world.

This is the truth, I agree that Muslims should think about these things if they want to move to a foreign country. If they want to be extra good Muslims, they should stay in their own countries.
Unfortunately this problem doesn't end at the Burqa/Niqab. We have Muslims protesting for stuff like 'Sharia in the UK', preaching wrong (extremist) things which are even forbidden in Islam (Like 'Non-Muslims are all criminals in the eyes of God', Anjem Chaudry).
This kind of stuff makes me feel really bad about the state of some Muslims. I mean, If you want to protest or get Sharia, do it in your own countries for God's sake. There's so much stuff to protest about and these people choose 'Sharia for UK'. When I feel like protesting I join a PTI protest against corruption in Pakistan or something, atleast that is a practical cause which doesn't offend anyone.

There should be a comprehensive ban on burqa-clad women.

I disagree with this. There should be a ban on face-covering (Niqab), I'm fine with that, but not Burkas completely.
Hijab and loose-fitting clothes like Burkas are all right and should be acceptable in society. The Burka can be worn without covering the face, so that should be fine.

I do not agree with the ideology of niqab, I have practiced it before and yes I am very well aware that in the West it attracts more attention than its purpose which is to not attract attention.

This is why I am OK with banning the niqab, I don't disagree with its ideology entirely but I disagree with wearing it in public in the western world atleast.

BUT SUDDENLY she feels the full impact of intolerance from her OWN society....

Put yourself in her shoes....Were this in a stage, like the school maybe said due to security reasons faces must be shown or something along those lines...it would have been understood but when you claim to have liberal education for women empowerment than reject HER CHOICE...

based on some phobia...well you tell me what that is

Again, I agree completely.
Its all about the way she was rejected, the school people may have had understandable reasons and thoughts, but they should have just informed the parents about this and changed their rules to say that covering of the face is not allowed.
Kicking her out of the school so directly and insensitively made them look like discriminating douchebags.

 

[liontk]

Do you know in this very part of your post YOU have ridiculed someone's culture (coz a few sects in Islam put veil as obligation based on hadith and a few other put it as something that is better if you can practice it) while maintain your freedom to speak (your "adapted" culture)...And I am not speaking for myself but for a sect that does exist and is growing despite people claiming to object it....


multiculturalism and tolerance does not mean that you maintain your culture while ridicule other's.

multiculturalism and tolerance does not mean that you maintain your culture while ridicule other's.

multiculturalism and tolerance does not mean that you maintain your culture while ridicule other's.

I say only 1 thing: practice what you preach!

Repeatedly you have ridiculed an idea which many follow "as their OWN choice" and can justify to you ...

Which many respect even if they dont follow....


By showing a form of phobia and distancing certain people you only create more recruits...


You are trying to equate a burqa to ISIS and terrorism...




It is sad that you are incapable of summarizing this into what is a reality...You are suffering from Islamophobia in 1 form or another...
And no it is not even subtle anymore...When you claim to respect and accept you dont reject out of ignorance nor do you ignorantly paint everyone with the same paint OUT OF FEAR....

You are calling someone's ideologies a disease, their practice a disease calling them extremists and a means of segregation while calling yourselves as liberal and tolerant? It is soo easy to call yourselves all the good name while avoiding the reality of what it is a phobia a fear of an ideology....

When I sit in a bus or a train and see a Jew, I dont cringe that he/ she may be mossad and may kill the child on a beach....nor do I cringe the same when I see a man in turban nor do I feel the same when I see a woman wearing a burqa....why should I ?

I dont see why some of you wash away your tolerance based on what the media is saying and painting everyone with the same brush?

I do not agree with the ideology of niqab, I have practiced it before and yes I am very well aware that in the West it attracts more attention than its purpose which is to not attract attention...I am aware of this but a child (the girl in this article) who was born in UK she was thought about individuality, she didnt use the niqab before but CHOSE it just in Summer....and wore it with pride coz she knew her culture (being a British) is tolerant and doesnt discriminate...she got an extra boost when she was allowed to do O levels with the niqab.....

but when she got the grades to go to A levels in a school where she has been for 5 yrs, which let her and the former students do their exams in Niqab ...

BUT SUDDENLY she feels the full impact of intolerance from her OWN society....

Put yourself in her shoes....Were this in a stage, like the school maybe said due to security reasons faces must be shown or something along those lines...it would have been understood but when you claim to have liberal education for women empowerment than reject HER CHOICE...

based on some phobia...well you tell me what that is!

We have already been over the security issues many times but here I was mentioning other reasons that are correlated to this. Any type of covering regardless of religious or personal reasons that choose to conceal face should not be allowed based on the reality we are currently living in(ie. global events). However this is about an institution that has it's own set of regulations and we have to respect their right. Concealing your face by any common sense logic does not improve interaction nor learning however I am sure you will cry about it using tolerance or other forms of values that could counter act my point(bleeding hearts).

Now based on the observation of your views, I can assume that the separation of church n state or mosque and state is probably against your core ideology since you dodged my question about secularism.

However since you did bring up the islamophobic card so I can only reiterate that I am a practicing muslim and that card may work on a non-muslim but I am not bleeding heart liberal so lets move on.

Burka-wearing armed robbers foiled by brave shop assistant | UK | News | Daily Express
Armed robber wearing a burka and wheeling a pram helps three accomplices gain access to jewellers to carry out raid | Daily Mail Online
access-jewellers-carry-raid.html

This is a problem you need to open your eyes to and having lost an extended family to these animals, I can attest it is part of a systematic problem that breeds these losers heading into syria. Tolerance is a two way street and as a muslim, I feel depressed looking at the numbers above and so may be it's time to take the viel off and face the reality of the world(no puns intended). Look akhelios, the veil is a security threat and simply does not belong in a 21st century context(atleast not in western world).

IN AN IDEAL WORLD, I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU BASED ON PRINCIPLE OF TOLERANCE, HOWEVER WE LIVE IN A WORLD WITH MONSTERS LIKE THE ONES LISTED ON THE CHART. OPEN YOUR EYES

 

[syedali73]

@TankMan I have used the word 'burqa' incorrectly. I should have used the word 'face-covering'. I believe that there should be a comprehensive ban on face-covering because this non-sense has no place in todays world. Those who are interested in clinging on to their cultures should do so in their respective countries and must not try to legitimize their ancient practices by declaring them Islamic because they is not. They must also stop it imposing on others by inventing false hadith (or skewed interpretations of hadith) or gathering fatwas. Live and let others live but as per the norms of the world. Tomorrow if someone from Amazon delta or other isolated pockets insisted on going about naked since that is their culture, what would we do? Let them do it in the name of multiculturalism and tolerance?

Regarding Sikhs allowed to have Kirpan... I never said that they are not allowed. I made an argument that they don't insist on doing this because carrying weapons in public is not acceptable (it may be legal) in civilized societies. If they can learn the norms of a society, why are we so resistant? Nobody is asking Muslim women to roam around in skirts, all that is expected is not to hide their face. Is this a lot to ask? Even rajasthani rajput women tend to take veil in Rajasthan but they are enlightened enough not to follow this particular cultural thing while abroad.

 

[Zarvan]

@TankMan I have used the word 'burqa' incorrectly. I should have used the word 'face-covering'. I believe that there should be a comprehensive ban on face-covering because this non-sense has no place in todays world. Those who are interested in clinging on to their cultures should do so in their respective countries and must not try to legitimize their ancient practices by declaring them Islamic because they is not. They must also stop it imposing on others by inventing false hadith (or skewed interpretations of hadith) or gathering fatwas. Live and let others live but as per the norms of the world. Tomorrow if someone from Amazon delta or other isolated pockets insisted on going about naked since that is their culture, what would we do? Let them do it in the name of multiculturalism and tolerance?

Face covering is order off Quran and Sunnah and who ever will be ban would face backlash its clear cut order in Surah Al Ahzab and women have to do it

 

[syedali73]

Face covering is order off Quran and Sunnah and who ever will be ban would face backlash its clear cut order in Surah Al Ahzab and women have to do it

Please spare me from your interpretations. I have read more Islamic literature than the retartd Mullah you say your prayers behind.

 

[Zarvan]

‘Too upset and angry’: Muslim teen barred from top London school for wearing veil quits — RT UK

View attachment 85554
Reuters / Khaled Abdullah

Anonymous, Education, Religion, Security,UK
A Muslim teenager who had been banned from school for wearing an Islamic face veil said that she was too ‘upset, hurt and angry’ to go back, despite the support of cover a thousand of her fellow students.

The 16 year old, who was due to start her A level exams this year, was told by the prestigious Camden School for Girls that her decision to wear the Islamic veil went against the schools’ dress code, and that staff would not be allowed to teach her unless she removed it.

Speaking to the London Evening Standard, the girl said that the face veil should not be seen as “un-British”.

“I was born in Britain. I know perfect English, I enjoy doing the normal, typical things like drinking tea and eating biscuits. Britain claims to be multicultural, meaning they accept different kinds of people.”

“To be honest a lot of people at the school wear inappropriate clothing — inappropriate as in very provocative and revealing clothing like extremely short shorts — so it didn’t make sense that they were refusing me to wear the niqab” she said.

The girl will continue her studies at a different sixth form college, which is located further away from her home.

“I’ve been going to Camden for five years yet they were so dismissive but a school that I’d never even heard of were so ready to welcome me. There are even other students who wear the niqab” she said.

Camden School for Girls was named as one of the top 100 in the country by schools minister David Laws last year, and has a number of prominent alumni.

She has done the right thing MAY ALLAH keep her steadfast yes medevial thing we should follow UK with 70000 rapes each year and growing

 

[Zarvan]

Please spare me from your interpretations. I have read more Islamic literature than the retartd Mullah you say your prayers behind.

I have read it and read it on daily bases mr first covering face is order off Islam nothing to with culture and you spare us and stop lying

 

[syedali73]

I have read it and read it on daily bases mr first covering face is order off Islam nothing to with culture and you spare us and stop lying

This is called intolerance that you are fed with by the jaahil and intolerant Mullah.

As Allama Iqbal said: Deen e Mullah fi sabeel illah fasad. You and your likes are practical explanation of what Iqbal said.

She has done the right thing MAY ALLAH keep her steadfast yes medevial thing we should follow UK with 70000 rapes each year and growing

As if rapes dont happen in Islamic countries. They happen maybe at larger scale but go unnoticed. Marrying teen-age girls without their proper consent to 55-65 years old is what? That is pedophilia plus rape that goes on for the rest of their life.

 

[Zarvan]

This is called intolerance that you are fed with by the jaahil and intolerant Mullah.

As Allama Iqbal said: Deen e Mullah fi sabeel illah fasad. You and your likes are practical explanation of what Iqbal said.

I do my own search and Iqbal also said many things against modern education and other things so mr Niqab is and will remain part off Islam because its ordered by ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW if west wants war we would give them one

 

[syedali73]

I do my own search and Iqbal also said many things against modern education and other things so mr Niqab is and will remain part off Islam because its ordered by ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW if west wants war we would give them one

West does not want war, it is intolerant and radical like you, followers of jaahil mullah, who want war and in the process get yourself and your countries screwed up big time. Look around you what they have done (in-fact you have done) to fake jehadis from Afghanistan to Somalia.

 

[Zarvan]

West does not want war, it is intolerant and radical like you, followers of jaahil mullah, who want war and in the process get yourself and your countries screwed up big time. Look around you what they have done (in-fact you have done) to fake jehadis from Afghanistan to Somalia.

West wants war for past many decades but your slave mentality will keep you blind they want to attack Islam they will not get away with it and I follow ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW you want to abuse them by using indirect terms like Mullah and other things your choice

 

[narcon]

She has done the right thing MAY ALLAH keep her steadfast yes medevial thing we should follow UK with 70000 rapes each year and growing

My advise to all resident Mullahs of PDF:

The disease of the ignorant is to ignore their own ignorance.

 

[Zarvan]

My advise to all resident Mullahs of PDF:

The disease of the ignorant is to ignore their own ignorance.

70000 is reported by UK government and I have message for you ignorants stay away