Time to abandon Ummah / brotherhood for greater good of the nation?

[Cheetah786]

Mr or Mrs S-19, you forgot that all the European Union members are Christians , so no one is surprised that they do not want a Muslim union, it is just against there Christian interests.
And the same goes for the Hindus.

Wrong All European Nations are secular what people of the state practice is different. I do like guys like you who live in secular western states and enjoy the life style it bring but at the same time keep telling people in Islamic stats to live in lala land so there will be no progress.
Afghanistan Pakistan number one in corruption Osama bin laden a proven terrorist had and will have nothing to do with Islam.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Double post.....

 

[Cheetah786]

The Eurozone didn't succeed; there are too many different languages, and too many different cultures; Nordics, Latins, Greeks, Anglo Saxons and too many to describe.
The only common thing they had was Christianity, with so many different kinds of churches too.

First euro zone isn't dead yet second its in trouble cause of mismanagement of economies has absolutely nothing to do with churches or different languages.

 

[The SC]

Its obvious you talking religion everywhere.

I can able to bash your religion with strong argumentS but I am not a loafer like you.

According to our religion every life in the world is equal thats wat explained in Manu sastra. Manu neethi cholan story is best example for that.

Who told human is superior to all life? Science believed once the world ruled by larger reptiles , then Cat family now Human. Its just a evolution dear nobody is dominant here.

According to our religion every life in the world is equal thats wat explained in Manu sastra. Manu neethi cholan story is best

We call that in Islam " A rifq bi alhayawan" or " to take care of animals " is an obligation upon humans , not to worship animals, but to take care of them since most of them are more limited than the human animal the top of the list of the creation of God almighty.
So you explain it your self, so thank you loafer.
So every life in the world is equal to its creator God, that is paganism at its best or should I say worst.

 

[Jango]

And hold fast, all of you together, to Rope of Allah (i.e. this Qura'n), and be not divided among yourself" (3:105)

Your pakistan was established on muslim brotherhood principal... you guys failed because of your leaders who used islam often, but never followed islam... Now don't blame Ummah! Its all your fault!!

Finally a sensible post.

Don't blame Islam. Blame how you/we have followed it, and interpreted it according to your/our own petty needs.

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

Just wondering a thought..what has so called Islamic brotherhood / ummah really given us??

1. Terrorism, Talibans and Osama Bin Laden?
   
2. Turned us into a proxy battle ground of Shia vs Sunni?? Settling scores on a 1400 years old conflict?
   
3. Turning us into lap dog defenders of corrupt monarchies?? Not any different than IRGC in Syria??
   
4. Today we are trying to desperately re-write our history and erasing our own heritage to love the religion more than the prophets?
   
5. Seriously much of the terrorist and sectarian ailments of our societ can be traced back to pan-islamism and ummah obsessions..
   
6. Muslims countries which stayed away from brotherhood and ummah obsession have done remarkably well...point in case Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, etc!
   
7. Today none of these "brothers" are to be found to even condemn the severe security and stability crisis we are under. Not a word has been uttered against drone strikes. Not even a semblance of responsibility towards OBL...Pakistan has been abandoned by the very same Ummah it choose to defend vehemently..
   
8. its like waking up to reality...the so called Ataturk moment when he realized the very same Muslims were backstabbing them now...and he must have thought to hell with brotherhood and lets built the nation to stand on its own feet...I think what Pakistan needs today is a visionary like Ataturk!

it,s like abandoning our identity....
thats what we are,
such issues that u discussed are because of our wrong policies , ummah has nothing to do with it..

 

[Cheetah786]

Just wondering a thought..what has so called Islamic brotherhood / ummah really given us??

1. Terrorism, Talibans and Osama Bin Laden?
   
2. Turned us into a proxy battle ground of Shia vs Sunni?? Settling scores on a 1400 years old conflict?
   
3. Turning us into lap dog defenders of corrupt monarchies?? Not any different than IRGC in Syria??
   
4. Today we are trying to desperately re-write our history and erasing our own heritage to love the religion more than the prophets?
   
5. Seriously much of the terrorist and sectarian ailments of our societ can be traced back to pan-islamism and ummah obsessions..
   
6. Muslims countries which stayed away from brotherhood and ummah obsession have done remarkably well...point in case Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, etc!
   
7. Today none of these "brothers" are to be found to even condemn the severe security and stability crisis we are under. Not a word has been uttered against drone strikes. Not even a semblance of responsibility towards OBL...Pakistan has been abandoned by the very same Ummah it choose to defend vehemently..
   
8. its like waking up to reality...the so called Ataturk moment when he realized the very same Muslims were backstabbing them now...and he must have thought to hell with brotherhood and lets built the nation to stand on its own feet...I think what Pakistan needs today is a visionary like Ataturk!

Wow your post is Total 360 of your Normal posts i like it.

 

[lem34]

How can you abandon something that does not exist??

 

[user1]

There is no such thing called unity based on Islamism. This concept is pan-Islamism which is completely alien to the concept introduced in the Koran. However, those who are influenced by Mullah extremism will always call for caliphate and pan islamist unity, when actually God says such an unity is impractical and cannot exist.

God celebrates and revers difference between our cultures, language and tradition:



Differences and divisions across culture is something respected and acknowledged by God:

Regardless of differences of culture, language, tradition and the like, Allah/Quran guides Muslims to be together and not divided.


Qur'an 3:103

And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

 

[SQ8]

When there is no unified religious vision.. how can there be a unified political vision.
the Ummah exists.. but has no cohesion or leadership.
Till that comes into being.. it is best left as a dogmatic term.

 

[King Solomon]

Regardless of differences of culture, language, tradition and the like, Allah/Quran guides Muslims to be together and not divided.


Qur'an 3:103

And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

That is with respect to religion, not borders/culture/tradition/norms etc which the pan islamists assume. ie. Religious sects like sunni/shii'te/wahabi etc. are illegal. If you read the context of the verses you will know that.

 

[user1]

"And whosoever is conscious of Allah, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty). And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine. And whoever puts his trust in Allah, then He will suffice him. Verily, Allah will accomplish His purpose. Indeed Allah has sent a measure for all things." [65:2-3]

 

[user1]

That is with respect to religion, not borders/culture/tradition/norms etc. ie. Religious sects like sunni/shii'te/wahabi etc. If you read the context of the verses you will know that.

Islam is not a religion; it encompasses and over-writes all borders/cultures/traditions/norms (i.e political/social ideologies).

Sects are only present in a religion, which Islam is not.

There is not context, Quran explains itself.

 

[King Solomon]

Islam is not a religion; it encompasses and over-writes all borders/cultures/traditions/norms (i.e political/social ideologies).

Sects are only present in a religion, which Islam is not.

There is not context, Quran explains itself.

I think you didn't read my posts in this thread. Look before what I posted

I thought you have left the forum, but since you are back with your utter and remarkable stupid answers, we are waiting for you and your explanation of an atheist wannabe religious mullah.

Go back to your taliban hideout. You'd fit in with your buddies there.

Then again, someone living in a secular supposedly "infidel" canada advising other muslims! How ironic!

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

We have had this "Ummah" discussion so many times here, but nevertheless I am going to give my views on it once again lol.

It's true that all Muslims are brothers & sisters to one another, & that they constitute one spiritual nation through religion. However this does not imply that we give up our race, culture, language, heritage, or nationalities simply for the sake of unity or living in a caliphate. God himself honors our diversity & wishes to preserve it, if He wasn't fond of it then why would He make humans so diverse & different? Islamic brotherhood aims to give people of a diverse background some sort of connection with each other so that they may not only help each other out, but also learn to appreciate & respect each other. Again, this does not imply destroying your race, culture, or language. Anyone who asks us to destroy our race, culture, language, or heritage is the embodiment of pure evil & must be utterly humiliated & destroyed.

Muslim nations are free to go on their own paths & help out other Muslim nations if they ever require it. That does not mean that you put someone else's interest above your own. If 2 Muslim nations have conflicting interests then they must do whatever is best for them & if that requires severing ties with another Muslim nation then so be it. A nation must never put someone else's interest before them. That being said however, Muslim nations should avoid conflicts or work to resolve pointless conflicts.
The problem with Pakistan is that the concept of Muslim "Ummah" over there involves giving up & destroying your heritage completely. Many in Pakistan don't know about or even celebrate their own history. In stead they take pride in the accomplishments of other Muslims who have nothing in common with them besides Islam. This is laughable of course because none of those Muslims are related to Pakistanis in either the genetic, linguistic, or ethnic sense. Some Pakistanis are so obsessed with "unity" that they might even bend over & sell their own daughters simply because a Muslim "brother" asked them to do so.

Nations require both racial & religious nationalism to survive, Arab nationalism is the best example of that. It aims to preserve race, language, & culture while simultaneously promoting Islam as well. Pakistan needs a mixture of both racial & religious nationalism so that their first priority would be to serve their own country & improve themselves while preserving their cultures & traditions. Then at the same time they could help out their Muslim brothers & sisters in other nations against injustice or any feasible or rational assistance they may require. Only when nations give first priority to themselves do they ever progress, no nation has ever progressed looking up to or relying on someone else.