The Rafale vs F22 video that the web is abuzz on! From ATLC 2010.

[dbc]

Let's take an example of rafael pilot here, how come under extreme G, he still retained his senses and manage to simulate a kill despite his attention divided due to extreme pain he is in?

I doubt the Rafale pilot was able to retain his senses because he broke at least two rules of engagement and made several mistakes.

The first is to stay above the hard deck of 10,000 ft. The fight was over as soon as this rule was violated. The second rule that was violated is the rule to maintain air speed above 150 Knots.
If either pilot dropped air speed below 120 knots the pilot in breach of this rule must break off the engagement and recover air speed.

The Rafale pilot also missed several radio calls for instance he made only two turning calls in the entire engagement. His first turn was acknowledged by the call "fighter turning" and his high 'g' turn notice was communicate when he said 'Alex turning..' this was the last turning call in the entire engagement.

This guns only engagement is a no result and was probably ended by a radio transmission of 'knock it off' due to breach of ROE. Since the HUD footage from the F-22 isn't available its impossible to say who broke the rules first.

I don't know what the French want to accomplish by releasing this edited footage but this behavior may jeopardize future French participation in joint exercises with USAF and perhaps others.

 

[Audio]

I don't know what the French want to accomplish by releasing this edited footage

Propaganda to sell jets.

but this behavior may jeopardize future French participation in joint exercises with USAF and perhaps others.

Yeah, right.

 

[500]

Gun only engagement between two modern fighters is like wrestling competition between two snipers.

 

[Mugwop]

If you can get within dogfight range of the F-22 it's not invincible.

 

[Developereo]

Weird that the "RELEASE STICK" notifications are in English.

Sacre bleu!

 

[dbc]

If you can get within dogfight range of the F-22 it's not invincible.

Dogfight range? Its a training exercise it is set up so both start the engagement with in visual range (dogfight range) and head on guns engagement is forbidden to prevent mid air collision the restriction is no guns 45 degrees off your opponents nose.

 

[sancho]

Gun only engagement between two modern fighters is like wrestling competition between two snipers.

Don't forget that that was a demand by the US forces. Close combats with AIM 9 vs MICA IR would have been interesting though.
Btw, the claims of F22 using external fuel tanks in these exercises to "help the opponents" should be rejected now once and for all.

 

[Donatello]

I doubt the Rafale pilot was able to retain his senses because he broke at least two rules of engagement and made several mistakes.

The first is to stay above the hard deck of 10,000 ft. The fight was over as soon as this rule was violated. The second rule that was violated is the rule to maintain air speed above 150 Knots.
If either pilot dropped air speed below 120 knots the pilot in breach of this rule must break off the engagement and recover air speed.

The Rafale pilot also missed several radio calls for instance he made only two turning calls in the entire engagement. His first turn was acknowledged by the call "fighter turning" and his high 'g' turn notice was communicate when he said 'Alex turning..' this was the last turning call in the entire engagement.

This guns only engagement is a no result and was probably ended by a radio transmission of 'knock it off' due to breach of ROE. Since the HUD footage from the F-22 isn't available its impossible to say who broke the rules first.

I don't know what the French want to accomplish by releasing this edited footage but this behavior may jeopardize future French participation in joint exercises with USAF and perhaps others.

This was just an exercise. In a real scenario one or both of the pilots don't have to honor rules of engagement. In a real air war, doesn't matter whether you were shot down by the enemy while you were above 10,000ft hard deck or below it. You are shot, you are dead. End of story.

In any case F-22 is not there to dominate WVR and gun battles. F-15s and F-16s can easily do that. It is to make sure that the airforce doesn't have to be forced into a negotiating position in the first place.

Also, 10,000 ft hard deck seems a lot, considering both fighters are twin engine and have plenty of thrust when in clean configuration.

 

[gambit]

This was just an exercise. In a real scenario one or both of the pilots don't have to honor rules of engagement. In a real air war, doesn't matter whether you were shot down by the enemy while you were above 10,000ft hard deck or below it. You are shot, you are dead. End of story.

A 'hard deck' is there for safety reasons. It is applicable to both sides. If it is violated, it is akin to cheating.

Also, 10,000 ft hard deck seems a lot, considering both fighters are twin engine and have plenty of thrust when in clean configuration.

It is not. When you are busy multi-tasking with your life on the line, even a virtual life as in an exercise, it is easy to get distracted and get lost within that 10k ft altitude. There are no shortages of stories from WW II where a pilot literally flew into the ground in a fight.

 

[dbc]

Also, 10,000 ft hard deck seems a lot, considering both fighters are twin engine and have plenty of thrust when in clean configuration.

No the 10,000 ft hard deck rule is the result of hard learnt lessons and many dead pilots. Depending on the cause of departure an aircraft can lose between 2,000 and 1,000 feet per oscillation and a single oscillation can last between 3 and 5 seconds.

 

[dbc]

Propaganda to sell jets.

Yes the French appear desperate for a sale. Propaganda is unnecessary when kick backs are enough to secure sales.

Defence Minister admits there was corruption in chopper deal

 

[Star Wars]

Why is the pilot breathing so hard continuously?

Very high G manuever turns..i think the pilot is trying to keep the blood pumping to his head

 

[halloweene]

This video has been undercover circulating for years now. I know the guy who put it on internet, nothing to do with Dassault btw...No propaganda (except for his website). The fight took place aside of ATLC, a Langley vs StDizier contest. Why not simply say that THIS day in THESE conditions, with THESE pilots, a F22 was in bad position. No big deal as the reverse certainly happened. Just enjoy the vid, with very nice infos on both planes capabilities, tactics etc. And why would that impair US/French exercises? There are hundreds of videos of that type on internet.

 

[dbc]

This video has been undercover circulating for years now. I know the guy who put it on internet, nothing to do with Dassault btw...No propaganda (except for his website). The fight took place aside of ATLC, a Langley vs StDizier contest. Why not simply say that THIS day in THESE conditions, with THESE pilots, a F22 was in bad position. No big deal as the reverse certainly happened. Just enjoy the vid, with very nice infos on both planes capabilities, tactics etc. And why would that impair US/French exercises? There are hundreds of videos of that type on internet.

Bad position? Not according to the video. The Rafale pilot radioed "Alex, confirm you are restoring" before the Rafale pilot obtained lead and was in a position for a guns kill on the F-22. Restoring means the USAF pilot is disengaging to gain altitude and air speed. So the USAF pilot was not in a 'bad position' as you claim but he had disengaged from combat.

 

[halloweene]

Nvm tbh. The video shows clearly qualities of both airplanes, and thats the only iportant thing. If you could transcript all the dialogues, i'd be very thankful.