The only way to tackle terrorism in Pakistan is to reform or close down Madrasas

[Secur]

You lost 60K muslims bcs of joining the US lead "war on terror" . Madrasas have nothing to do with your secular's gov foreign policy.

Yes, the old ridiculous and absurd excuse/rationalization of killing Muslims because Muslims are being killed elsewhere by infidels or because their Govt is partnering with the West. Sell it elsewhere, you would hardly find any takers here. And they have had many things to do with the govt policy from the eighties to the attack of twin towers, when the commander of the faithful Zia ul Haq got in bed with mullahs. This only ended recently, their involvement is either participating or creating a conducive environment for extremism and terrorism to flourish continues to this day however. The cadres for religious terrorist organisation of say TTP have been almost exclusively educated in Madarsas. Ofcourse, its the seculars fault.

How would you explain the recent massive decrease in terrorism after the crackdown against seminaries and terrorists in the tribal belt? Have the intellectually colonized evil liberal secular Muslims stopped imposing the culture and religion of west on the state?

The OP and this thread is a good example of secular liberal extremism.

OP hasn't started killing the people he doesn't agree with nor started closing down Madaris. Not something I can say about religious extremism.

WHat's extreme to intellectually colonized liberal "muslims" may very well be the basic tenet of Islam .

You are saying that sectarianism, shunning off worldly life, calling science and technology as unislamic, imprisoning women and restricting their movement and function in the society, asking people to blow themselves up, kill others in the name of religion, forming militias to fight or act against the state, creating a virtual civil war like situation and forcing others to follow your interpretation of religion is a basic tenet of Islam? All subjective, right?

But that would go against secularization project of the west & their intellectually colonized resident "muslims".

Did I mention that we aren't looking for your certificate of authenticity of being Muslims? I must have forgot to mention that.

 

[CIS-TRANS]

Madrasa kids have higher level of obedience so that is misused by their heads. If these students are sync with modern education and skills they can be best work force a country can have.

Don't you realized yet, TTP is not fighting for territorial gain but to hurt state and its people, They are being used as proxy and people having anti Pakistani ideology not Pan-Islamic but anti Pakistani ideology are their allies and cadres. A Madrassa kid is never a pure ideologue and may be because of poverty he may joining anti Pak terror force but their manipulator that controls him are clear ideologue and mastermind of this war. so targeting a poor who don't know what he is doing may provide you score against militant but not decisive victory.

 

[Luffy 500]

Yes, the old ridiculous and absurd excuse/rationalization of killing Muslims because Muslims are being killed elsewhere by infidels or because their Govt is partnering with the West. Sell it elsewhere, you would hardly find any takers here. And they have had many things to do with the govt policy from the eighties to the attack of twin towers, when the commander of the faithful Zia ul Haq got in bed with mullahs. This only ended recently, their involvement is either participating or creating a conducive environment for extremism and terrorism to flourish continues to this day however. The cadres for religious terrorist organisation of say TTP have been almost exclusively educated in Madarsas. Ofcourse, its the seculars fault.

SO non-muslims slaughtering muslims and Gov of muslim states partnering with west doesn't produce extremism but learning abt religion does? U will slaughter the whole family of a human being & torture him to death and when he strikes back , its his religion to blame? Isn't that the conveyor belt theory to extremism currently touted by neo-nazi western bigots like Theresa may of UK? Talk abt intellectual colonization.


Btw is every ill of present day liberal secular Pak , Zai Ul Haq's fault? Wasn't he the one who very meticulously warded off intl diplomatic pressure on PAK nuclear programme and oversaw one of the most vulnerable period in PAK's history, not to mention put the commie soviets in their place. May be if the secular liberal US left Afghanistan lone , secular liberals in PAK would not have the 60 K innocent muslim dead bodies for political point scoring.

OP hasn't started killing the people he doesn't agree with nor started closing down Madaris. Not something I can say about religious extremism.

WHat's makes u think he won't considering his bigoted views & generalization abt his own relatives he doesn't agree with:

I personally have two very close relatives who have gone through this system and let me tell you if these so called religious schools are not dealt with soon there will be millions of ticking time bombs with ideologies

You are saying that sectarianism, shunning off worldly life, calling science and technology as unislamic, imprisoning women and restricting their movement and function in the society, asking people to blow themselves up, kill others in the name of religion, forming militias to fight or act against the state, creating a virtual civil war like situation and forcing others to follow your interpretation of religion is a basic tenet of Islam? All subjective, right?

As expected. Straw men argument by an intellectually colonized liberal. U should have read my post and comprehend it properly before banging on the keyboard.

Did I mention that we aren't looking for your certificate of authenticity of being Muslims? I must have forgot to mention that.

Did i give any certificate?

 

[Secur]

SO non-muslims slaughtering muslims and Gov of muslim states partnering with west doesn't produce extremism but learning abt religion does? U will slaughter the whole family of a human being & torture him to death and when he strikes back , its his religion to blame? Isn't that the conveyor belt theory to extremism currently touted by neo-nazi western bigots like Theresa may of UK? Talk abt intellectual colonization.


Btw is every ill of present day liberal secular Pak , Zai Ul Haq's fault? Wasn't he the one who very meticulously warded off intl diplomatic pressure on PAK nuclear programme and oversaw one of the most vulnerable period in PAK's history, not to mention put the commie soviets in their place. May be if the secular liberal US left Afghanistan lone , secular liberals in PAK would not have the 60 K innocent muslim dead bodies for political point scoring.

As evidenced by the invasion of whole country of Pakistan by a Western secular entity, of course! Can you continue the discussion without getting so ridiculously absurd? Whats the excuse of your brethren for continuing mindless frenzied killings in this country when there's never been any successful invasion at all and no suppression of the religion like a few of other cases? Non Muslims targeting Muslims elsewhere? Every single of the time, you would answer any question but this, doesn't take very long to understand why.

Not all, but most of them. And on top of them, are the drivers for this terrorism, extremism and radicalization. Illegally seized power in a bloodless coup, lost Siachen to Indians, imparted an ideology of barbarism and rigidity alien to this land to people and supported the Americans for their own interests/fought a war that wasn't ours. Muslims were being killed by Muslims long before the Americans landed in Afghanistan, for various reasons having more to do with their internal desire to purify themselves than some revenge and invasion of the neighboring country.

WHat's makes u think he won't considering his bigoted views & generalization abt his own relatives he doesn't agree with:

Simply answer me. Is he? No, whats the excuse by the religious extremists there who are presently involved in actions and not mere words? The risk for everything is something, don't deflect and don't maneuver evasively.

As expected. Straw men argument by an intellectually colonized liberal. U should have read my post and comprehend it properly before banging on the keyboard.

Just answer it, that would be fine. Because that is what the Mullahs and their supporters here are seen doing and exactly what we term as extremism. There's a reason we still can make the list of countries which still haven't eradicated Polio, apparently the religious sermons and pamphlets do a real nice job of convincing parents that their kids are being infected by the vaccine, same goes for half a dozen other things including iodized salt-T.V.-women voting in elections-secular worldly education- drugs (even)- modernity- culture e.t.c. There you go then, it isn't objective and not stemming from some imagined hatred of the basic idea of religion. All of what I mention can be seen acted against widely.

Did i give any certificate?

Oh yes! Was it unconscious somehow? I don't need it (And even religion wouldn't much to gain by you starting to put " " right before and after the word Muslims). That is exactly how your kind starts to murder people, by labeling them on supposedly wrong path, for being an infidel or well not following your interpretation of religion. This is a known pattern.

 

[Imran Khan]

bomb every madrasa now

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

I never rejected the figure of sixty thousand deaths since two thousand and one. Why would I? That is the biggest most persuasive evidence against the religious extremists in Pakistan waging a war against the people of the country, something I repeatedly used in the argument with you. I rejected the "all explaining" conspiracy theory that religious extremism and terrorism is explained and (more importantly) rationalized by the participation in War on Terror (which you again conspiringly call an alignment with Christendom). The religious terrorists in this country are more than capable and enough to cause death and destruction as evidenced by their words and actions, no Christendom-Zionism-Hinduism needs to get involved from outside. Just because the Pashtuns have a tradition of revenge doesn't mean that our attempts to cleanse the tribal belt of criminal and terrorists elements and end the status of "illaqa-e-gher" are unjustified, illegal or somehow unislamic. The critical long due cleaning of the tribal belt is further supported by the fact that thousands of foreign nationals, a terror economy and weapon factories were present in the belt as evidenced by the findings in recent Zarb-e-Azb all prove Musharraf's decision right. In 2001, it was about time that we start integrating that area properly into the country.



I don't have a habit of jumping from one topic to another. The problem is my view of the whole situation doesn't have an "idealistic" oversimplified explanation with conspiracy theories. The various things are interlinked starting with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan resulting in the present-day full blown open religious extremism and terrorism, hence I cant make it easy for you.

I debunked this excuse of yours, posts ago. Your repetitive saying to the point of ad nauseam that these people aren't Muslims and somehow foreign agents doesn't explain and rectify the problem (only if it could, most problems of this country wouldn't have existed by now). This isn't from Islam, this is however by Muslims. Unless of course TTP, Al-Qaeda LeJ, ASWJ, SSP, LeM, Ghazi force, Jundallah, Islamic movement of Uzbekistan, East Turkestan movement including smaller not commonly known groups are secular and foreign entities, Muslims are at fault and you need to start introspecting. The foot soldiers and leaderships for these terrorists organization (around 40k approximate for all) didn't come from proper educational institutions. This isn't merely revenge (a small part of the problem and not the whole problem itself) as you so easily put it out to be, there's a genuine problem of radicalization and extremism in this country.



Work on your comprehension issues perhaps? So that you understand posts properly and don't have to repeat your misunderstandings again and again. This is the third or fourth you are stuck on 60k sectarian deaths, even when you have not a single post of mine saying anything such.



Hatred for Muslims? Whats it with the Mullah supporters to label everyone critical of their idol's policies and actions to be anti-Islamic or Islamophobic? No, just killed my countrymen en masse and polluted the minds of an astronomically large number. I believe, that is worst than "stealing my goat". I can blame most for this mindless frenzied killings, nothing is absolute of course. I don't exactly see Christians, Hindus or Jews killing each other in the name of religion, don't use "the good and bad people in religion" excuse.

Same old mind numbing repetition like a record. You got nothing new to add, it's attrition! As we Muslims are so bad and you're such a kafir lover, then stay out! I suggest you ask the Palestinians of the Zionist hospitality. I suggest you ask the Libyans, Iraqis and Afganis of the Christian hospitality. I suggest you ask the Kashmiris, Christians in Orrissa of the Hindu hospitality.

If anyone doesn't like PAK-i-STAN = land of the PURE, stay out and those who are here, pack your bags and leave. Leave this PAK ZAMIN and don't look back. WE DON'T want you HERE!

SO non-muslims slaughtering muslims and Gov of muslim states partnering with west doesn't produce extremism but learning abt religion does? U will slaughter the whole family of a human being & torture him to death and when he strikes back , its his religion to blame? Isn't that the conveyor belt theory to extremism currently touted by neo-nazi western bigots like Theresa may of UK? Talk abt intellectual colonization.


Btw is every ill of present day liberal secular Pak , Zai Ul Haq's fault? Wasn't he the one who very meticulously warded off intl diplomatic pressure on PAK nuclear programme and oversaw one of the most vulnerable period in PAK's history, not to mention put the commie soviets in their place. May be if the secular liberal US left Afghanistan lone , secular liberals in PAK would not have the 60 K innocent muslim dead bodies for political point scoring.



WHat's makes u think he won't considering his bigoted views & generalization abt his own relatives he doesn't agree with:






As expected. Straw men argument by an intellectually colonized liberal. U should have read my post and comprehend it properly before banging on the keyboard.




Did i give any certificate?

You are wasting your time with them. They're well entrenched in their dislike for the believers. I'm a graduate of a Madrasa and I will never give any leave way to them. Only the Ulema ikram have the authority to reform the Madaris, not those who received $100m from Christendom. They have no morals and do anything for money! These deluded ones speak with lofty words and shear arrogance after the likes of them have humiliated us and dragged the name of Pakistan through mud.

$100m US loan to Pak for checking madrassas

$100m US loan to Pak for checking madrassas - timesofindia-economictimes

Your signature speaks volume of you character; ''The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allah that you may receive mercy. (Surat Al-Hujurat - 49:10)''

May Allah bless the Land of the Pure.

 

[Turkish_FR]

You should close the madrassas which teaches kids the things have nothing with Islam, dont call it "extremism", its a Western concept, there is no extremism in Islam.

 

[PDF]

bomb every madrasa now

it is better to try to change their extremist mindset rather than bombing them.Bombing straightly is also extremism!

Not all Madrasas are seeding terrorism.But many of them are. We need to take steps to stop our fellow Pakistanis in Madrasas to further fall to prey of terrorism!

 

[Secur]

Same old mind numbing repetition like a record. You got nothing new to add, it's attrition! As we Muslims are so bad and you're such a kafir lover, then stay out! I suggest you ask the Palestinians of the Zionist hospitality. I suggest you ask the Libyans, Iraqis and Afganis of the Christian hospitality. I suggest you ask the Kashmiris, Christians in Orrissa of the Hindu hospitality.

If anyone doesn't like PAK-i-STAN = land of the PURE, stay out and those who are here, pack your bags and leave. Leave this PAK ZAMIN and don't look back. WE DON'T want you HERE!

Is that the part where you say "Allah O Akbar" and then blow up? You still are unable to find the part where I said "60k sectarian death", continue lying through the teeth though in the name of religion.

You Muslims are so bad that you don't even need a proper excuse to kill your own, not a trait I see with Hindu, Christians, Jews and dozens other religion in the modern world! I have no desire to become the "contractor" (even when the Ummah doesn't want or accept you as such) hence restricting my arguments to merely Pakistan. What such hospitality have you experienced here in this country to continue chopping heads off or blowing yourselves up here? None!

Only the Ulema ikram have the authority to reform the Madaris, not those who received $100m from Christendom.

Your terrorists Mullahs have no desire to change the mindset which creates the enabling conditions for sectarianism, radicalization and extremism. Hence, someone needs to interfere from outside and make sure little children aren't trained for joining TTP, LeJ, AQ, ASWJ, SSP e.t.c. later nor hired as free lance suicide bombers looking for an easy exit. And by the look of it, steps are being taken to take care of this menace, Sindh Govt has started the crackdown on known terrorists centers. No longer will your brethren be allowed to import little girls in the range 6-12 years from Bajaur to Karachi to give them religious education here!

 

[aqdus]

bomb every madrasa now

HAHAHA Now this is Our PDF Veteran RIP PDF or i should say PDF G UTHO AB KOOCH KARO...................

Is that the part where you say "Allah O Akbar" and then blow up? You still are unable to find the part where I said "60k sectarian death", continue lying through the teeth though in the name of religion.

You Muslims are so bad that you don't even need a proper excuse to kill your own, not a trait I see with Hindu, Christians, Jews and dozens other religion in the modern world! I have no desire to become the "contractor" (even when the Ummah doesn't want or accept you as such) hence restricting my arguments to merely Pakistan. What such hospitality have you experienced here in this country to continue chopping heads off or blowing yourselves up here? None!

MR. If you are not Muslim than plz stay out of this madarassa matter as it is none of your business as far as terrorist are concerned we know how to deal with them as we are already dealing with them and if you have any issue with us (Muslims) you are free to leave this country dont worry we will not stop you as you are not important at all. So mind your own business if you have any other than criticizing muslims. i dont know how you people get to be "THINK TANK CHAIRMAN: ANALYSTS"

 

[SurvivoR]

The only way is to reform the Judiciary and the Police.

 

[Salik]

You lost 60K muslims bcs of joining the US lead "war on terror" . Madrasas have nothing to do with your secular's gov foreign policy.

"extreme rigid barbaric interpretation" of religion is subjective. WHat's extreme to intellectually colonized liberal "muslims" may very well be the basic tenet of Islam . Problem starts occurring when these intellectually colonized liberals stars imposing their new western religion on the state and arm twisting muslim on orders of their secular western/Indian/russian/chinese masters. Imposition of anti-islamic values on a muslim society produce legitimate grievances that are easily exploited by extremist who r not necessarily madrasa students. The secular liberal extremist fuel the extremist who happens to be muslims . The OP and this thread is a good example of secular liberal extremism.



What's going on in PAK is going on in the rest of the intellectually colonized muslim world i.e foreign backed & intellectually colonized secular liberals trying to superimpose western religion, doctrines & values on majority muslim pop. thereby fueling the other extreme and then blaming madrasas which have existed for 1000s of years. PAK is nothing special in that regard.

Btw extremism results from ignorance of religion. To counter that you need to go back to religion. An Islamic society can only counter extremism NOT a intellectually colonized society. How abt inviting the Islamic university of Medina to draw a comprehensive curriculum for madrasas and also a comprehensive Islamic studies curriculum for secular schools so that threads like these are not posted on a open forum:

Pakistan should be a Secular State

The only way to tackle terrorism in Pakistan is to reform or close down Madrasas

But that would go against secularization project of the west & their intellectually colonized resident "muslims".

You were totally ignoring evolution within religion that had started in the life of Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H. The Prophet acted differently on different occasions for the convenience of the people. From there four basic schools of thought emerged namely Maliki, Hambli, Shafie and Hanafi. This all happened in first 400 years. What evolution occured in next thousand years you can't imagine.

Now liberalism isn't something that comes from 'West'. One school of thought adopts softer approach and other names it liberal. Islam has not any fixed tenet. Basic tenet of Islam is growth and evolution. If you want to reverse time to 1400 years back, you don't understand the spirit of Islam and wish of the Prophet.

If you insist time resists! and that results in bloodshed. There we lost 60k people. You name it result of Pakistan joining NATO led war in Afganistan. Whatever you name it your ultimate objective is imposing your enterpretation of Islam on others. For this your whole madrasa machinery has been working and now working intensively.

And your 'intellectually colonized liberals' are not imposing their 'new west Islam' on the state. The state wants everyone to practice their school of thought peacefully. Thats it.

 

[Malik Usman]

Only the Wahabi Madrassas must be banned.......Just see...ISIS, Al-Qida, Taliban, Laskhar Tiaba, Taskhar Jangwi.....all those are rooted from these Mudrassas..........

 

[Salik]

If anyone doesn't like PAK-i-STAN = land of the PURE, stay out and those who are here, pack your bags and leave. Leave this PAK ZAMIN and don't look back. WE DON'T want you HERE!



You are wasting your time with them. They're well entrenched in their dislike for the believers. I'm a graduate of a Madrasa and I will never give any leave way to them. Only the Ulema ikram have the authority to reform the Madaris, not those who received $100m from Christendom. They have no morals and do anything for money! These deluded ones speak with lofty words and shear arrogance after the likes of them have humiliated us and dragged the name of Pakistan through mud.

$100m US loan to Pak for checking madrassas

$100m US loan to Pak for checking madrassas - timesofindia-economictimes

Your signature speaks volume of you character; ''The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allah that you may receive mercy. (Surat Al-Hujurat - 49:10)''

May Allah bless the Land of the Pure.

Point to be noted @secure

In Pakistan pure is one who is associated with madarasas. Every normal human take a bath daily. Water is purifier by nature, if you intend or not it makes you pure. Ask any Ulama ikaram.

Btw those who can't defend their argument by themselves and refer to Ulama ikaram, leave this forum. Get some knowledge of the subject and some logical brain then return. Roted points won't work here. Typical example of blind followership.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

Is that the part where you say "Allah O Akbar" and then blow up? You still are unable to find the part where I said "60k sectarian death", continue lying through the teeth though in the name of religion.

Your true self has finally come out! Anti-Madaris cover is used to hide your hatred of Islam! I've already exposed you as a liar with your ''60K'' deaths you claim are unrelating to war on Islam.

Have a read of another comment of yours:

''Just how absurd can you get by starting to claim the deaths of Pakistanis are a result of joining a war?''

You Muslims are so bad that you don't even need a proper excuse to kill your own, not a trait I see with Hindu, Christians, Jews and dozens other religion in the modern world! I have no desire to become the "contractor" (even when the Ummah doesn't want or accept you as such) hence restricting my arguments to merely Pakistan. What such hospitality have you experienced here in this country to continue chopping heads off or blowing yourselves up here? None!

So what if we're killing each other, mind your own business.

French revolution, Boar War, WW1, WW2, Great Purge (USSR), N.Ireland War, Baath in Spain, Ukraine. They were all Muslims???

You were totally ignoring evolution within religion that had started in the life of Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H. The Prophet acted differently on different occasions for the convenience of the people. From there four basic schools of thought emerged namely Maliki, Hambli, Shafie and Hanafi. This all happened in first 400 years. What evolution occured in next thousand years you can't imagine.

''EVOLUTION''??? What are you talking about? With utmost respect, you're out of your depth talking about this. There was no difference of opinion at the time of the Prophet as'salathu was'salaam because he is the Prophet of Allah as'salaaathu was'salaam and acted according to the commands of Allah and there is no one who can challenge his authority except the hypocrites (privately) and verses were revealed to expose their traits.

When the Prophet as'salaathu was'salaam passed away, much later on, difference of opinions started arising as the teacher as'salaathu was'salaam was not there anymore. The 4 madahib came about because they differed on the fiqha, but NOT aqeedah! That is why the madahibal-arab3 are known as the ahal-al sunnah wa jamah.

''What evolution occured in next thousand years you can't imagine''

What ''evolution are you expecting?