The murder of history in Pakistan

[somebozo]

NBC NEWS: 20000 Americans Convert To ISLAM Each Year ! - YouTube
Most who are converting are educated people not poor Sir Many of them are doctors engineers and other people in jobs
The Islamification of Britain: record numbers embrace Muslim faith - Home News - UK - The Independent
But touts of Abu Juhals and enemies of Islam can only talk **** and lies which they always have tried to stop spread of Islam and have failed every time

and every Muslim convert gets a membership certificate to keep a track record? I have a source in USA who does dawa and in his own words, Islam losses more followers than it gains and most of the new converts are back to old life in less than three month.

Mr HAZRAT KHADIJAD RA brother and father were both alive and by the way her slaves were also their they were the ones who used to handle business they used to give her the end report Sir

and you were her personal chaperone to witness all of that. As a matter of fact Muhammed enjoyed very little authority over his wife when it came to managing the affairs between the two until he so called prophet-hood.

 

[Hellfire]

Islam will never collapse Sir it because it is from ALLAH and protected by him and is growing and growing fast thousands and thousands of people convert to Islam every year

The almighty may be saving it but HE can only do so much. Even god can not save mankind from ignorance and mis-interpretation of the holy teachings. Something that is too rampant in todays Islam - the twisting of holy teaching to brainwash and prepare idiots to wage 'jihad' on everything and everyone. Conversion? Having 15 children per family is not conversion - its population explosion in a backdrop of scarce and limited resources! Teachings give a way of life and stress upon intelligent way of life not idiocy!

 

[somebozo]

How Saudis supress their own pre-islamic history

Google Earth Reveals Thousands of Tombs in Saudi Desert | Saudi Archaeology & Tombs | LiveScience

 

[Saleem]

"so called prophet-hood".[/QUOTE]????????

 

[King Solomon]

and every Muslim convert gets a membership certificate to keep a track record? I have a source in USA who does dawa and in his own words, Islam losses more followers than it gains and most of the new converts are back to old life in less than three month.

Good point. This is because Muslims use different narratives when preaching to non muslims and muslims. In case of non muslims, they will say Islam preaches tolerance, human rights, justice and equality and other good things. The "good" quranic verses and hadiths are quoted. At this stage, they're not informed of the brutal Sharia laws and other controversial aspects. So far so good. But when they convert to Islam, they're introduced to backward concepts like Sharia law, burka, beards and Salafism. At this point they find Islam absurd and leave it. Study shows that 75% of muslim converts in US leave Islam within a few years: 75% of New Muslims become Apostates - Muslim scholars admit. - YouTube

 

[somebozo]

 

[Android]

and every Muslim convert gets a membership certificate to keep a track record? I have a source in USA who does dawa and in his own words, Islam losses more followers than it gains and most of the new converts are back to old life in less than three month.



and you were her personal chaperone to witness all of that. As a matter of fact Muhammed enjoyed very little authority over his wife when it came to managing the affairs between the two until he so called prophet-hood.

considering the country you live in don't you get into trouble for posting such stuff

 

[Black Widow]

If you read distorted history, you will have distorted future...

Pakistani Politicians, :If you can't convince them, confuse them...

 

[Rab Da Banda]

Oh Hindi you lost that war very very badly. Shut & sit down, the only people who are totally brainwashed are Hindis. There are many bravery records set by Pakistan in war against India.

Wow! I am convinced! Which war did Pakistan win:1948,1965, 1971, or the Kargil one? Or are you talking about some future war?
I am Punjabi too! Possibly brainwashed by the British branding of some Punjabi groups as Martial Races, as I belong to one of those races (so called).
I do not know who won more bravery medals in above mentioned wars, as comparing Indian and Pakistani medals of honor in war may not be a valid comparison.But keep on believing in your own bravery and some one may,one day use you as cannon fodder too ( if you are young and daring enough!)!.
Pagal pan Zindabad!!!

 

[Capt.Popeye]

If you read distorted history, you will have distorted future...

Pakistani Politicians, :If you can't convince them, confuse them...

That is how you then achieve a 'Bonsai Democracy' or a Stunted State.

 

[Rab Da Banda]

Hi every one
Is 'The Murder Of History'; by K. K. Aziz available online in pdf form ? ( The prices asked for the ones available in book form are rather high ( $50 or more)).If it's available can you please provide the link? There are some links on the web but have some strings attached to their downloads.
I have an Apple computer and the downloads that have .exe at the end do not seem to work.Is there a way to use those downloads on Apple? Rab Da Banda

 

[DaRk WaVe]

You cannot teach them history without indirectly teachingt them to hate what do you think you they will love those who killed millions of Muslims during partition those who broke Pakistan those who are killing in Kashmir and killed in Gujrat

we certainly can talk about historical facts without inducing any hate, example, Europe. After two world wars, Europeans have decided to move the hell on and do something for themselves and instead of sticking to some sort of measuring competition today they enjoy peace which we only dream of

and their is no such thing as true history or right history every person sees with his own eyes past events and who did what Bhagat Singh hero for Indians villan for British same guy but different views

PoV can change but events as they happened are not PoVs, they are facts

 

[Kompromat]

The irony is that Indians are always forthcoming to question,Pakistani version of history but never answer about theirs. India is one nation that feeds a screwed version of history to its citizens, most importantly how they present Pakistan's independence.

India has its citizens believe in a rather absurd notion, that Pakistan somehow was 'given' and not to forget that it was a 'mistake'. I am yet to meet 'one' Indian who accepts Pakistan's God given right to self determination. India also presents Pakistan as a product of communal animosity which is absurd,because Pakistan came into being as the result of a democratic process.

India also presents the absurd notion that 'Pakistan was part of India'....couldn't be any further from the truth. As a matter of fact 'India' what modern day Indians believe it to be 'never existed'. Before the Colonial period,it was divided into princely states which existed by paying "Khiraj" to the most powerful kingdom or dynasty, before that it was divided into multiple small or medium kingdoms who always fought each other for supremacy.

India is quick to hide the historical fact,that India has only existed as a large empire, which included Bangladesh,Pakistan and Afghanistan, under Ashoka and some periods of Moghal empire, and either of whom didn't last for more than a century and they were kept united under a sword. Internal feuds lead to its subsequent fragmentation once again.

India also hides from its citizens the fact that the real, reason for the partition of the sub continent was the Hindutva aspirations which lead Jinnah, once the champion of Hindu Muslim unity for 16 years, to leave the INC. India uses secularism as a veil to hide the fact that India is a Hindu state and the Hindu elite who now want to come out of the closet and wish to create a Hindutva state existed in early 1900s too.

All of Indian, symbolism is derived from Mahabharatha, ie weapon titles, the Indian flag has Ashoka chakara and he coat of Arms belongs to Ashoka. Suffice to say that, India is oblivious of providing any symbolic recognition to either the Muslims,Sikhs or Christians who also are its citizens and in large numbers.

As for the wars.

* 1948 was a stalemate
* 1965 was a stalemate
* 1971 was a defeat for Pakistan,being outnumbered 1-25. [Big deal]
* 1999 was a limited conflict with no territorial changes.

Indians are quick to claim triumf which depicts their sense of insecurity, even when they haven't scored an outright victory on their own. In 1971, a vast majority of E.Pakistani rebels were Bangali Mukhti Bahini, NOT Indians, they invaded when it suited them.


On the other side, Germans don't teach Nazi history. They had to go through a rigid de-nazification campaign, Australians/Canadians/Americans don't like to talk about the Aboriginals and Indians and what happened to them, Kiwis don't like to talk about the Mauri tribes and their historic treatment, Americans don't talk about Vietnam, bombing of Japan and the slaves. Everyone has something to hide, not just Pakistan.

End note: I'd like to see more recognition of Gandhara and Indus Valley heritage of Pakistan more than it is recognized today in Pakistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I normally find it easy to agree with @Aeronaut, as his views are clear and normally reasonable. This is not one of those occasions.

The irony is that Indians are always forthcoming to question,Pakistani version of history but never answer about theirs. India is one nation that feeds a screwed version of history to its citizens, most importantly how they present Pakistan's independence.

India has usually supplied a less-damaged narrative in the past. It is true that since the BJP first came to power, At that time, there was a determined effort to re-write history according to revisionist norms. When they were voted out, these re-writes were themselves re-written, back towards the older models.

India has its citizens believe in a rather absurd notion, that Pakistan somehow was 'given' and not to forget that it was a 'mistake'. I am yet to meet 'one' Indian who accepts Pakistan's God given right to self determination. India also presents Pakistan as a product of communal animosity which is absurd,because Pakistan came into being as the result of a democratic process.

There was no 'God-given' right to self-determination. There is nothing God-given about that right, and bringing God into the equation to justify it is hardly a sign of self-confidence. There is no doubt that mistakes made by an Indian party which believed that the identity of all Indians was one, and that religious differences could be addressed by addressing the self-proclaimed religious leadership of each community.

There was no democratic process either. The democratic process that was prevalent under British rule consisted only of elections, the right to access which was exercised by a restricted electorate. These elections gave the Muslim League a clear mandate - in the provinces of UP and Bombay. The mandate was to exercise the will of the Muslim segment of the population, to protect their religious practices and freedom to practise their religion peacefully. The Muslim League did make their proposal clear - a reserved homeland within a single state. Their option of a partitioned and disjointed Muslim majority nation certainly wasn't their primary intention, unless Jinnah was play-acting right through. It is difficult to believe that. Geographies picked for the homelands provided a lesson on their own. None of them had voted for the League.

More later.

India also presents the absurd notion that 'Pakistan was part of India'....couldn't be any further from the truth. As a matter of fact 'India' what modern day Indians believe it to be 'never existed'. Before the Colonial period,it was divided into princely states which existed by paying "Khiraj" to the most powerful kingdom or dynasty, before that it was divided into multiple small or medium kingdoms who always fought each other for supremacy.

India is quick to hide the historical fact,that India has only existed as a large empire, which included Bangladesh,Pakistan and Afghanistan, under Ashoka and some periods of Moghal empire, and either of whom didn't last for more than a century and they were kept united under a sword. Internal feuds lead to its subsequent fragmentation once again.

India also hides from its citizens the fact that the real, reason for the partition of the sub continent was the Hindutva aspirations which lead Jinnah, once the champion of Hindu Muslim unity for 16 years, to leave the INC. India uses secularism as a veil to hide the fact that India is a Hindu state and the Hindu elite who now want to come out of the closet and wish to create a Hindutva state existed in early 1900s too.

All of Indian, symbolism is derived from Mahabharatha, ie weapon titles, the Indian flag has Ashoka chakara and he coat of Arms belongs to Ashoka. Suffice to say that, India is oblivious of providing any symbolic recognition to either the Muslims,Sikhs or Christians who also are its citizens and in large numbers.

As for the wars.

* 1948 was a stalemate
* 1965 was a stalemate
* 1971 was a defeat for Pakistan,being outnumbered 1-25. [Big deal]
* 1999 was a limited conflict with no territorial changes.

Indians are quick to claim triumf which depicts their sense of insecurity, even when they haven't scored an outright victory on their own. In 1971, a vast majority of E.Pakistani rebels were Bangali Mukhti Bahini, NOT Indians, they invaded when it suited them.


On the other side, Germans don't teach Nazi history. They had to go through a rigid de-nazification campaign, Australians/Canadians/Americans don't like to talk about the Aboriginals and Indians and what happened to them, Kiwis don't like to talk about the Mauri tribes and their historic treatment, Americans don't talk about Vietnam, bombing of Japan and the slaves. Everyone has something to hide, not just Pakistan.

End note: I'd like to see more recognition of Gandhara and Indus Valley heritage of Pakistan more than it is recognized today in Pakistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Before I continue, I realise that two essential points were missed out in my sleepy and fuddled state when I set out to reply to @Aeronaut's deft act of dismemberment: first, that the Indian view of history, as it sometimes exists in some people's perceptions, though not in schoolbooks and texts as much as our Pakistani friends imagine, is undoubtedly damaged and defective, and that is no reason to replace it with another even more damaged and defective. The Pakistani narrative is not a replacement. An authentic and balanced narrative is a replacement, and that is what we need to seek to put in place. It is to be hoped that Pakistan too will seek to put that authentic and balanced narrative in place.

The second, very important, is to point out that neither this discussion nor any other invalidates or brings into question Pakistan's unimpugned right to exist, even to demand friendly and good-neighbourly relations with its eastern neighbour. In contrast to @Aeronaut's theist view of the state, in my own humble opinion, once the people of Pakhtunkhwa, Balochistan, Sind, Multan, Punjab and immigrants from India have decided that they will live together as a nation, they are a nation, and the Nazariya-e-Pakistan be blowed. So this is just a competition in smart-alecry, which I am determined to lose, after getting my licks in.

More.

The irony is that Indians are always forthcoming to question,Pakistani version of history but never answer about theirs. India is one nation that feeds a screwed version of history to its citizens, most importantly how they present Pakistan's independence.

India has its citizens believe in a rather absurd notion, that Pakistan somehow was 'given' and not to forget that it was a 'mistake'. I am yet to meet 'one' Indian who accepts Pakistan's God given right to self determination. India also presents Pakistan as a product of communal animosity which is absurd,because Pakistan came into being as the result of a democratic process.

India also presents the absurd notion that 'Pakistan was part of India'....couldn't be any further from the truth. As a matter of fact 'India' what modern day Indians believe it to be 'never existed'. Before the Colonial period,it was divided into princely states which existed by paying "Khiraj" to the most powerful kingdom or dynasty, before that it was divided into multiple small or medium kingdoms who always fought each other for supremacy.

India is quick to hide the historical fact,that India has only existed as a large empire, which included Bangladesh,Pakistan and Afghanistan, under Ashoka and some periods of Moghal empire, and either of whom didn't last for more than a century and they were kept united under a sword. Internal feuds lead to its subsequent fragmentation once again.

India also hides from its citizens the fact that the real, reason for the partition of the sub continent was the Hindutva aspirations which lead Jinnah, once the champion of Hindu Muslim unity for 16 years, to leave the INC. India uses secularism as a veil to hide the fact that India is a Hindu state and the Hindu elite who now want to come out of the closet and wish to create a Hindutva state existed in early 1900s too.

All of Indian, symbolism is derived from Mahabharatha, ie weapon titles, the Indian flag has Ashoka chakara and he coat of Arms belongs to Ashoka. Suffice to say that, India is oblivious of providing any symbolic recognition to either the Muslims,Sikhs or Christians who also are its citizens and in large numbers.

As for the wars.

* 1948 was a stalemate
* 1965 was a stalemate
* 1971 was a defeat for Pakistan,being outnumbered 1-25. [Big deal]
* 1999 was a limited conflict with no territorial changes.

Indians are quick to claim triumf which depicts their sense of insecurity, even when they haven't scored an outright victory on their own. In 1971, a vast majority of E.Pakistani rebels were Bangali Mukhti Bahini, NOT Indians, they invaded when it suited them.


On the other side, Germans don't teach Nazi history. They had to go through a rigid de-nazification campaign, Australians/Canadians/Americans don't like to talk about the Aboriginals and Indians and what happened to them, Kiwis don't like to talk about the Mauri tribes and their historic treatment, Americans don't talk about Vietnam, bombing of Japan and the slaves. Everyone has something to hide, not just Pakistan.

End note: I'd like to see more recognition of Gandhara and Indus Valley heritage of Pakistan more than it is recognized today in Pakistan.