The Concept of the Pan-Malay Union: A discussion

[INDIC]

China's per-capita is 4x that of India. That's plenty of room for savings.

Yes, they produce the cheapest products in the world. Now, you stop talking imaginary things.

India's English and technology advantages are exaggerated. Other countries like Vietnam and Philippines, can do the job just fine. Many Australian companies prefer Vietnam and Philippines as a destination now.
Anyway, getting off-topic.

I am aware of Vietnam and Philippines. what's your point here.

The Indians to which I was referring in Malaysia were the IT companies. I don't know if they are indigenous or India-based.
The dominant ethnic minority in Malaysia is Chinese.
That dominance is mirrored by Indians in Africa.
Both these minorities worked hard, but it is also true that they engage in ethnic nepotism and hold themselves aloof from the majority natives.

Right, we are talking about institutionalized discrimination and also the Malayas aren't the poorest ethnic group in Malaysia unlike the natives in south Africa or United States.

 

[Developereo]

Yes, they produce the cheapest products in the world. Now, you stop talking imaginary things.

How does that negate the fact that China's per-capita GDP is 4x that of India, and Indian companies should be able to compete on price?

I am aware of Vietnam and Philippines. what's your point here.

The point is that, despite being more expensive that Vietnam and Philippines, Indians still dominate the IT outsourcing market, including the H1-B visa quotas. Part of the reason is ethnic nepotism by Indians, not because Indians are inherently better than the Viets or Filipinos..

Right, we are talking about institutionalized discrimination and also the Malayas aren't the poorest ethnic group in Malaysia unlike the natives in south Africa or United States.

Affirmative action is governmental discrimination that is deemed necessary to balance private business discrimination.

One can spout naive slogans, indicating ignorance of the subject, but the reality of discrimination in private business is of serious concern, and many governments have programs to redress this discrimination.

 

[INDIC]

How does that negate the fact that China's per-capita GDP is 4x that of India, and Indian companies should be able to compete on price?



The point is that, despite being more expensive that Vietnam and Philippines, Indians still dominate the IT outsourcing market, including the H1-B visa quotas. Part of the reason is ethnic nepotism by Indians, not because Indians are inherently better than the Viets or Filipinos..



Affirmative action is governmental discrimination that is deemed necessary to balance private business discrimination.

One can spout naive slogans, indicating ignorance of the subject, but the reality of discrimination in private business is of serious concern, and many governments have programs to redress this discrimination.

If a non-Malay converts to Islam and endorse to Malay customs he can too avail Bumiputera facilities while the non-Muslim natives of Malaysia complain of being discriminated for not being a Muslim. So, its not the thing you are actually trying to pretend.

Secondly, Chinese manufacture their things at cheapest cost so they don't need any Indian involvement.

 

[Developereo]

The dominant ethnic minority in Malaysia is Chinese.
That dominance is mirrored by Indians in Africa.

Both these minorities worked hard, but it is also true that they engage in ethnic nepotism and hold themselves aloof from the majority natives.

Just to make it clear, "Indians" in Africa includes Pakistanis and others.
I am using the generic "Indian" as a shorthand for South Asian.

 

[sahaliyan]

I can understand the reason the Malays created Bumiputera laws,however I don't think this is a good method to solve racial inequality，the best way is to improve the education standard of Malays,Malaysian government should spend more in education.The bumiputera laws only benefit the Malay elites,what about the common Malay people?
Affirmative action of USA is a failure,Blacks and Hispanics are still the poorest ones of USA,instead,why US government doesn't spend more in public education,and don't let those black kids destroyed by violence culture(the reason is well know,many black kids even don't know who are their fathers,how can kids grow up in such evironment)

 

[powastick]

As long as minority elites continue to engage in ethnic nepotism, the government needs to step in and balance it out. The financial sector in Malaysia is almost entirely staffed by Chinese. The IT sector is run by Indians. It's so bad that Indians and Chinese bosses import IT workers from India rather than hire local Malays.
This discrimination is rationalized using racist stereotypes that Malays are lazy and unqualified.
The amount of racism from the Indian and Chinese elite in Malaysia towards the local Malays is unbelievably strong.

We do hire Malays in the private sector. The problem is so many student with bad result can enter University. Our exam was dumb down for more to pass. When those Malay reach the job market many of them low quality, poor communication in English. A poor non-Malay student with straight A can't get university placement. There is a quota Malay worker, and if strictly enforce, i could imagine those companies would rather go to Singapore. Now is globalization, if you aren't competitive, is yours to lose. Don't get me wrong, there many quality workers among Malays, but you have to test them yourself.

Financial sector entirely staffed by Chinese? Quite misleading, two largest bank in Malaysia are own by Malays, CEO is Malay, another own by the goverment. CIMB and Maybank. CIMB is own by our current Prime Minister family.


Government agencies used Malay as a language while private is optional (most choose english). Indonesia forces private companies to used Indonesia language did somehow balance.

 

[Established_1965]

You compared China/Vietnam with Western countries. My first question is can a Vietnamese or Chinese company can make cost saving by allowing Indian companies by outsourcing it to India just like Western countries do Even China will need few centuries to match the per capita income of Western countries. Indians dominate in IT Industry because of cheap labor cost and proficiency in English language while other parts of Asia aren't that proficient in English except Philippines.



Yes, the native and migrants all were discriminated by White Europeans like blacks in Americas and they have such policies for benefits of natives and migrants they brought to serve them. As I told you Indians are the poorest among all ethnic groups of Malaysia just like black are in America. thus You comparison is full of stupidity.



They do it for cost saving and even ready to accommodate Indian accent for cost saving. BTW its not just confined to call centre but also outsource their software development while keep marketing with themselves. It is mostly the low labor cost and English proficiency that Indians dominate the sector.

India lacks technology as a product based companies. All your big companies like infosys, tata, cognizant are simply a BPO's. Time are changing and fast, I'm a Singaporean who is working in bangalore if you have asked me few months back, i could have laughed like hell .

 

[INDIC]

India lacks technology as a product based companies. All your big companies like infosys, tata, cognizant are simply a BPO's. Time are changing and fast, I'm a Singaporean who is working in bangalore if you have asked me few months back, i could have laughed like hell .

I never said they are technologically advances but you ought to know the difference between BPO and software development.

 

[Established_1965]

I never said they are technologically advances but you ought to know the difference between BPO and software development.

Please Define BPO and Software development in Indian Context.

 

[Aepsilons]

We do hire Malays in the private sector. The problem is so many student with bad result can enter University. Our exam was dumb down for more to pass. When those Malay reach the job market many of them low quality, poor communication in English. A poor non-Malay student with straight A can't get university placement. There is a quota Malay worker, and if strictly enforce, i could imagine those companies would rather go to Singapore. Now is globalization, if you aren't competitive, is yours to lose. Don't get me wrong, there many quality workers among Malays, but you have to test them yourself.

Financial sector entirely staffed by Chinese? Quite misleading, two largest bank in Malaysia are own by Malays, CEO is Malay, another own by the goverment. CIMB and Maybank. CIMB is own by our current Prime Minister family.


Government agencies used Malay as a language while private is optional (most choose english). Indonesia forces private companies to used Indonesia language did somehow balance.

Well its good to know that Malays are rising and filling in the ranks in the financial sector.

 

[Nan Yang]

I completely agree with you in regards to the the British use of foreign indentured servants / slaves from South Asia and China. I can't help but have a sense of empathy as well as sympathy for the native indigenous peoples in the Malay Peninsula , and yet also have that same empathy for the Chinese and Indian / South Asians who were brought , many of whom, against their will. That said, what has happened cannot be undone now since the descendents of the first Chinese immigrants into Malaya , as well as those of India/ South Asia call Malaysia as their home. I do hope that within time, the Malaysian Government can eventually remove the Bumiputra and focus on not just a Malay identity, but on a 'Malaysian' identity.

Not entirely true. Chinese came to Malaya on their own to escape poverty, famine, civil war and invasion by Japan !

Many Chinese went into tin mining. Demand for Tin rose 100% in the 20s. Tin was the new material for preserving food in Tin Cans. Rubber price was also very high due to the war in Europe. Kuala Lumpur which later became the capital of Malaysia was in fact founded by Chinese miners. 87 Chinese Tin prospectors discovered tin near the Klang and Gombak river confluence. Only 18 survived and later as more people came and under the leadership of Yap Ah Loy, Kuala Lumpur grew so important that the British shifted the Capital from Port Swettenham to KL. Malaysia’s first railway was from KL to the Port Swettenham. Many Chinese became rich and news spread to China.

In fact so many Chinese kept coming that the colonial government had to placed restriction on new arrivals. A friend of my father used my father connection and our family name to come to Malaya. Til this day he and his descendents still used our Family name.

Many Chinese became rich and many Chinese donated to support China’s war against Japan. Because of that, Chinese later suffer the worst of the atrocities when Japan invaded Malaya.

The Chinese never intent to stay. Just to make money and return to China to retire and pass away. And many did returned to China. My Cantonese maid returned. One of my Aunt returned.

Malaysia is a country build on the sweat and tears of Chinese people.

When I was young, these Chinese “Gravel Pump” tin mining structures were everywhere. Water is used to blast the soil/tin to the bottom. Then a pump will pump the soil/tin to the top of the long slide. The slide will have groove to trap the heavier tin.
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After all the tin are mined the hole is fill up with water and abandon. The Sunway Lagoon Resort is the legacy of these mining techniques. Sunway Lagoon used to be a barren abandoned Tin mining pool.

 

[powastick]

invasion by Japan !

Haha, my family too. Life was already hard, invasion from Japan was the deal breaker. My advise is the Japanese must not join US invading other countries. We were mostly war refugee.

 

[submitter]

I can understand the reason the Malays created Bumiputera laws,however I don't think this is a good method to solve racial inequality，the best way is to improve the education standard of Malays,Malaysian government should spend more in education.The bumiputera laws only benefit the Malay elites,what about the common Malay people?
Affirmative action of USA is a failure,Blacks and Hispanics are still the poorest ones of USA,instead,why US government doesn't spend more in public education,and don't let those black kids destroyed by violence culture(the reason is well know,many black kids even don't know who are their fathers,how can kids grow up in such evironment)

the Bumiputera laws is essential in balancing the economic controls among many ethnics and preserving the opportunities for Bumiputera ethnics like Malays,Dayaks, Orang Ulu, Kadazans etc to be able prosper in their own land (West Malaysia/East Malaysia).
If we look at Indian and Chinese, they came from lands that were exposed to industrialization brought by East India Company much sooner than that to Malays region which focus mostly only on trade. So we know an aspect of urbanized mind set was certainly not present among Bumiputeras decades ago. & Even till today, we can still find Malays living in hut near rivers, while other local ethnics would be in jungles in their longer version of huts.

 

[Aepsilons]

Many Chinese became rich and many Chinese donated to support China’s war against Japan. Because of that, Chinese later suffer the worst of the atrocities when Japan invaded Malaya.

In the prosecution of war against the Allied powers, the Imperial Japanese Army had committed acts of excessive brutality on Allied soldiers, allied prisoners of war and the indigenous locales, including the Chinese minorities. Their being in the crossfires of the fighting was truly regrettable.

Not entirely true. Chinese came to Malaya on their own to escape poverty, famine, civil war and invasion by Japan !

The emigration of Chinese into Southeast Asia in large waves started in the 19th century, with the weakening of the Qing Dynasty's control of China and subsequent rise of warlordism, the quality of life of Chinese people made it a necessity to move to greener pastures. You're right, however, that the Chinese civil war and the Japanese Empire's subsequent invasion into China further intensified the Chinese emigration to escape the war and fighting.

 

[Maxtini]

the Bumiputera laws is essential in balancing the economic controls among many ethnics and preserving the opportunities for Bumiputera ethnics like Malays,Dayaks, Orang Ulu, Kadazans etc to be able prosper in their own land (West Malaysia/East Malaysia).
If we look at Indian and Chinese, they came from lands that were exposed to industrialization brought by East India Company much sooner than that to Malays region which focus mostly only on trade. So we know an aspect of urbanized mind set was certainly not present among Bumiputeras decades ago. & Even till today, we can still find Malays living in hut near rivers, while other local ethnics would be in jungles in their longer version of huts.

Why would they target race? Why not targeted those disadvantaged directly?This is ridiculous~
Even if affirmative action creates a more balance share of economy amongst various ethnic group, the root problem is still not address. Chinese will still cling to chinese, malay will still cling to malay, etc. There still be animosity between each ethnic group.

And guess what, the Malay will never foregoes the affirmative action for fear they won;t compete with Chinese without it~ this is of course defeat the purpose of affirmative action.