China studied the collapse of the Soviet Union and learned three lessons to avoid a similar fate

[jamahir]

Socialism is not communism. China is a socialist country, not a communist country.

Socialist state - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

OK, so from the initial part of the wiki :

This may either mean a system where the means of production, distribution and exchange are nationalised or under state ownership, or simply a system in which social values or workers' interests have economic priority.

So combining the above with my post# 53 what social values and what workers' interests are being prioritized ? And are Jack Ma's companies nationalized ?

And then :

Economically, this involves the development of a state capitalist economy with state-directed capital accumulation with the long-term goal of building up the country's productive forces while simultaneously promoting world communism.

When did China, at least since the Korea War ended, promote world Communism ?

 

[tower9]

Thanks USSR for giving China an idea how a feudal society can quickly organized itself. In the past, Chinese has no idea how to do it. Sun Yat Sen tried the traditional way, by incorporating organized crime (洪门 青帮) and enlisting warlords.

It was Lenin and Stalin who tell Sun that his party KMT, Tongmenghui is rubbish and piece of sht. That make Sun decided to take in communist member, trying to rejuvenate his party.

Modern China had two great teachers to make it what it is today.

The USSR taught China how to form a state. It taught China how to use revolutionary ideals to reform a country and how to form a powerful modern state capable of defending its independence. From 1949 to 1978, China was a student in the Soviet school.

The US taught China how to become rich. The US taught China the ways of capitalism, modern finance, business management and corporate practices. This is where modern China gets her enormous vibrancy. From 1979 to 2012, China was a student in the American school.

It is only because China took the best out of each of the most powerful superpowers in the past century that it has enormous strength and energy today.

 

[MH.Yang]

OK, so from the initial part of the wiki :

So combining the above with my post# 53 what social values and what workers' interests are being prioritized ? And are Jack Ma's companies nationalized ?

And then :

When did China, at least since the Korea War ended, promote world Communism ?

Socialism only requires the nationalization of major economies, not require nationalization of all economies. Do you know that Jack Ma's Alibaba is just a child in front of China's giant state-owned enterprises?

For example, GNTC's annual profit is 30 times that of Alibaba:

What is China Tobacco? - OCCRP

How is China Tobacco different from other multinational tobacco companies? Who regulates it? And where are its cigarettes sold?

www.occrp.org

Socialist countries have no obligation to promote world communism. Because even socialist countries themselves are not Communist countries.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

The US taught China how to become rich. The US taught China the ways of capitalism, modern finance, business management and corporate practices. This is where modern China gets her enormous vibrancy. From 1979 to 2012, China was a student in the American school.

China used a state owned version of the Japanese zaibatsu system which is combined with Russian and traditional Chinese influences. It had nothing to do with the US. Being state owned here is one of the most important features which allows for accepting of lower profit for social purposes, impossible under the US system. In terms of monetary influence, there was far more money from HK, Taiwan and ASEAN than from the US.

China had proto-socialism even in 100 BC, proving that China already understood how to get rich in an equitable manner 2000 years ago. The Han Dynasty had the first state owned company in the world （榷盐制）. It was too far ahead for its time but China was still far more stable than comparable civilizations who'd just collapse when the king or tribal warlord died.

汉武帝元狩四年（前119）实行政府垄断食盐产销的政策。在全国各产盐之地设置盐官， 管理盐的生产、分配和大规模转运。采取民制官收的作法，招募平民自己准备生活和生产费用去煮盐， 官府供给主要生产工具牢盆（即煎盐工具），煮成的盐由官府按盆给以一定的工价， 全部收归官有。

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Errrrr no. Chinese communists was led by peasants. Mao was a son of a peasant.

China have a history of peasant rebellion.

Mao was a son of a peasant but was a Confucian educated scholar, he attended 私塾 after all. Chiang Kai Shek was educated by the imperial Japanese military.

 

[tower9]

China used a state owned version of the Japanese zaibatsu system which is combined with Russian and traditional Chinese influences. It had nothing to do with the US. Being state owned here is one of the most important features which allows for accepting of lower profit for social purposes, impossible under the US system. In terms of monetary influence, there was far more money from HK, Taiwan and ASEAN than from the US.

China had proto-socialism even in 100 BC, proving that China already understood how to get rich in an equitable manner 2000 years ago. The Han Dynasty had the first state owned company in the world （榷盐制）. It was too far ahead for its time but China was still far more stable than comparable civilizations who'd just collapse when the king or tribal warlord died.

Yeah I don't really agree. Yes, China used state capitalism but it also integrated itself with the Western dominated trade and financial system. Remember when China first opened up in the early 80s, the US was by far the largest economy in the world and dominated global trade. The US and its allies commanded probably 80% of global trade and almost equivalently the same amount of global GDP. China tapped into these markets and supply chains, albeit much of this was spearheaded by Taiwanese and HKers who were already manufacturing for Western markets, and China learned and developed rapidly because of its exposure to Western and particularly American systems and corporate culture.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Yeah I don't really agree. Yes, China used state capitalism but it also integrated itself with the Western dominated trade and financial system. Remember when China first opened up in the early 80s, the US was by far the largest economy in the world and dominated global trade. The US and its allies commanded probably 80% of global trade and almost equivalently the same amount of global GDP. China tapped into these markets and supply chains, albeit much of this was spearheaded by Taiwanese and HKers who were already manufacturing for Western markets, and China learned and developed rapidly because of its exposure to Western and particularly American systems and corporate culture.

so you're saying that because for example Japan sold products to the west there is absolutely no difference in economic management style between Japan and US.

or are you saying that Chinese companies have stuff like chief diversity officers, stock buybacks and MBAs managing engineers not the other way around, because they're clearly identical to the US. Forming conglomerates under a state owner holding company has nothing to do with Japanese zaibatsu or Russian state owned enterprise, these are just coincidences.

maybe you're saying that Chinese companies focus on consumer markets and privatizing public goods as the primary driver of economic growth, rather than giving up some profit and focusing on climbing the B2B supply chain.

because if that's what you're saying I don't know what to tell you.

Even down to the micro level there's massive differences between how Chinese and US companies do... essentially anything, never mind the macro level.

 

[the_messenger]

At the collapsing point of the USSR, people lined up to get food and the USSR had to use gold to buy food for her people. The problem worsened during the 1980s when the price of oil collapsed.
Food was the main point of why the USSR could not survive, the very , very basic
Iran has endured sactions after sactions; however, food has never be a problem. As a result, they survive
North Korea was in bad shape, luckily for them, they have China
China can endure all kind of saction as long as food security can be mantained

 

[vi-va]

Mao was a son of a peasant but was a Confucian educated scholar, he attended 私塾 after all. Chiang Kai Shek was educated by the imperial Japanese military.

Mao's father was not an ordinary poor peasant, he did business as well, middle income I would say.

Mao also has some modern school education background, short period though. He was a teacher in Changsha, Hunan as well. Even in 私塾, Mao read quite some modern books.

The USSR taught China how to form a state. It taught China how to use revolutionary ideals to reform a country and how to form a powerful modern state capable of defending its independence. From 1949 to 1978, China was a student in the Soviet school.

USSR was a bad teacher. The interference from Communist International (第三国际) almost destroyed China revolution from inside.

I would say USSR was a model. China revolutionists are inspired by October Revolution. China went his own way since 1934 Fifth encirclement campaign against the Jiangxi Soviet, especially after Long March.

Economy model was copied from USSR during Mao's ruling from 1949-1976, focusing on heavy industry and national defense.

Political hierarchical architecture is quite similar to USSR until today, but it's more like an inheritance of dynasty bureaucracy.

Economy model is quite different from US. China learned a lot from US/Europe in tactic/micro level, but fundamentally different in national level. US is capital driven model, while China is dual model, capital and government driven.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Mao's father was not an ordinary poor peasant, he did business as well, middle income I would say.

Mao also has some modern school education background, short period though. He was a teacher in Changsha, Hunan as well. Even in 私塾, Mao read quite some modern books.

USSR was a bad teacher. The interference from Communist International (第三国际) almost destroyed China revolution from inside.

I would say USSR was a model. China revolutionists are inspired by October Revolution. China went his own way since 1934 Fifth encirclement campaign against the Jiangxi Soviet, especially after Long March.

Economy model was copied from USSR during Mao's ruling from 1949-1976, focusing on heavy industry and national defense.

Political hierarchical architecture is quite similar to USSR until today, but it's more like an inheritance of dynasty bureaucracy.

Economy model is quite different from US. China learned a lot from US/Europe in tactic/micro level, but fundamentally different in national level. US is capital driven model, while China is dual model, capital and government driven.

Even focus on heavy industry wasn't all on USSR. Japan also focused on heavy industry and neglected many aspects of consumer products which is why they have gas turbines but no domestic cell phone brand.

China inherited Manchukuo heavy industry from Japan.

 

[Song Hong]

Even focus on heavy industry wasn't all on USSR. Japan also focused on heavy industry and neglected many aspects of consumer products which is why they have gas turbines but no domestic cell phone brand.

China inherited Manchukuo heavy industry from Japan.

There was a real dearth consumer goods. People got to queue everyday for a loath of bread or toilet paper. The top elites are always well supplied.

This situation bothered Mao most and he was it in China as well. The upper class lost touch with the people.