Swiss halt Muslim family's citizenship process after refusal to shake hands

[Dubious]

I don't see how your response in any way relates to that post of mine that you quoted.

You did not talk about shaking hands which mind you OP is claiming is "courtesy" ?

Sadly some countries are showing the level of intolerance.....

Shaking a hand or not is a personal choice...even though the monarchy of the Western countries are ceremonial, Queen wears gloves when she "does" shake her hands...but she is uplifted and told she is special/ royal even in 2016! But if someone else feels like a Queen/ King it is subjected to intolerance...

If they really think or care about equality, I suggest they stat by going and shaking the hands of royalties without gloves and then force everyone else to shake hands too just to see if they are suitable citizens ....talk about petty nonsense!

And when I meant by some countries and level of intolerance it refers to all other countries and their mischief of alienating the "foreigners" even if they were born on the soil or are citizens but from different ethnic group...

And it is no secret many royalties and women up till 1990s did wear gloves when they were out and "happen to" shake hands while out....In today's world it has decreased and remained with royal families but still is shown in "their" culture....

 

[Viking 63]

If these idiotic muslims cannot be sensible in accepting little changes when they move to western countries, then please do all of us a big favor ....... stay in your fuckin country !!!!

 

[Dubious]

I am a practicing Muslim and i shake hands with women in Pakistan too. In fact me and my class fellows do it casually. These westerners have narrow views about Islam and they think that Islam is presented by a few conservative so-called Muslims.

The thing that surprises me alot is that ....when Muslims do it - it becomes big news and enough to repeat it like some catastrophic global event....but when non Muslims show their level of racism AFTER advertising Freedom of this and that, tolerance and whatnot ALL of which they criticize Muslim countries of not having...then why are they behaving like the "Muslim countries" their media portrays AND still have the audacity to say BS about Muslim countries?

I am sure Muslim countries have 101 problems, more if you ask me! However, if West has absolutely the same problems, what gives them the rights to cry about Muslims on a larger scale..

For those who dont understand:

West cries that there is lack of freedom and rights of minorities...Then why is every right of the Muslims questioned so much that even a handshake is viewed with enough reason to halt the citizenship process? How does this come under RIGHT or freedom of ANY form?

Further said, minorities are not allowed to "openly" practice their religion in Muslim countries that they are "specifically" scrutinized, stared and criticized....well, how open is it in say France? Or even how often is Adhan allowed in Europe while the church bells of many small towns rings liberally every 1-2 hrs? How is this not counted as discrimination and hypocrisy while OPENLY bashing Muslim countries for the very things that dont exist in West either?

If these idiotic muslims cannot be sensible in accepting little changes when they move to western countries, then please do all of us a big favor ....... stay in your fuckin country !!!!

so shaking hands is a BIG deal? So big that it can be called out for extreme measures?
Interesting to know how "Islamophobic" one can get that they dont even have the freedom of right to choose to shake hands or not in a country screaming FREEDOM!

 

[Djinn]

The thing that surprises me alot is that ....when Muslims do it - it becomes big news and enough to repeat it like some catastrophic global event....but when non Muslims show their level of racism AFTER advertising Freedom of this and that, tolerance and whatnot ALL of which they criticize Muslim countries of not having...then why are they behaving like the "Muslim countries" their media portrays AND still have the audacity to say BS about Muslim countries?

I am sure Muslim countries have 101 problems, more if you ask me! However, if West has absolutely the same problems, what gives them the rights to cry about Muslims on a larger scale..

For those who dont understand:

West cries that there is lack of freedom and rights of minorities...Then why is every right of the Muslims questioned so much that even a handshake is viewed with enough reason to halt the citizenship process? How does this come under RIGHT or freedom of ANY form?

Further said, minorities are not allowed to "openly" practice their religion in Muslim countries that they are "specifically" scrutinized, stared and criticized....well, how open is it in say France? Or even how often is Adhan allowed in Europe while the church bells of many small towns rings liberally every 1-2 hrs? How is this not counted as discrimination and hypocrisy while OPENLY bashing Muslim countries for the very things that dont exist in West either?

True, fact is they are Anti-Islam and they seek excuses to pounce upon Muslims and make them look bad. Just imagine if Pakistan deported foreigners for consuming alcohol in Pakistan, these western hypocrites would be up in flames. It's a shame that Muslims don't enjoy support from the Muslim world, so that they can effectively take on such discrimination in the West.

 

[Dubious]

Just imagine if Pakistan deported foreigners for consuming alcohol in Pakistan, these western hypocrites would be up in flames.

Exactly! They want to impose THEIR thoughts and habits no matter WHERE they are or go! But oppose the same of ANY other ethnicity or people! If they do it, it is fine even if it is breaking the law of another land....but god forbid someone just doesnt shake hand

A gora bringing drugs into Singapore despite knowing it is against the law went all global! Hand shaking isnt even in the law and they are making a big deal out of it!

It's a shame that Muslims don't enjoy support from the Muslim world, so that they can effectively take on such discrimination in the West.

That is the sad reality of why we are in the ditches! We lack unity while they will unite and support every ill cause the other gora has!

 

[C130]

forget the hand shaking what other things do these boys think they can or not do because of their religion??

if they kill somebody for X reason does that mean they can't be prosecuted?

 

[Djinn]

Exactly! They want to impose THEIR thoughts and habits no matter WHERE they are or go! But oppose the same of ANY other ethnicity or people! If they do it, it is fine even if it is breaking the law of another land....but god forbid someone just doesnt shake hand

A gora bringing drugs into Singapore despite knowing it is against the law went all global! Hand shaking isnt even in the law and they are making a big deal out of it!


That is the sad reality of why we are in the ditches! We lack unity while they will unite and support every ill cause the other gora has!

Enforcing their values on others is exactly why the world is embroiled in a conflict. Even thou people are happy under communism, authoritarianism or dictatorship these Westerners still want them to have DEMOCRAZY and in the process they kill millions of innocent people and yet have the audacity to cry foul when some one goes against their twisted beliefs.

 

[Dubious]

if they kill somebody for X reason does that mean they can't be prosecuted?

talk about extremism....you go from a handshake to killing

Enforcing their values on others is exactly why the world is embroiled in a conflict. Even thou people are happy under communism, authoritarianism or dictatorship these Westerners still want them to have DEMOCRAZY and in the process they kill millions of innocent people and yet have the audacity to cry foul when some one goes against their twisted beliefs.

It is history repeating itself!

Once upon a time they found monarchy/ colonial system and they enforced it all over then they found communism and followed by marxism and they enforced it all over...Now democracy....Tomorrow it will be liberal far right!

 

[C130]

talk about extremism....you go from a handshake to killing


It is history repeating itself!

Once upon a time they found monarchy/ colonial system and they enforced it all over then they found communism and followed by marxism and they enforced it all over...Now democracy....Tomorrow it will be liberal far right!

if they believe in honor killing and kill their sister or cousin or w/e, and they say well that's just my culture/religion isn't that the same thing?? you can't have one without the other.

 

[Dubious]

if they believe in honor killing and kill their sister or cousin or w/e, and they say well that's just my culture/religion isn't that the same thing?? you can't have one without the other.

no...

Killing is VERY different from refusing a hand shake! I cant even believe you brought such a thing up...Since you did, you might learn that even in African states which are not Muslim, honor killing is a "culture" ...Why coz it is a backward culture devoid of religion and def not any part of Islam, sure a large number of Muslim Bigots do it....doesnt mean it is Islam or a "culture" coz it is murder call it whatever you want - what IS a culture in Islam is killing 1 man (irrespective of his/her race, gender, colour, religion, cast or whatever) is the same as killing the "whole" of humanity! Now if people dont follow that....it is not the religion to blame but the person!

There is study and also stats showing it happens everywhere:

The murder of women in the name of “honor” is a gender-specific form of discrimination and violence and should be regarded as part of a larger spectrum of violenceagainst women, as well as a serious human rights violation. Violence against women in a global epidemic, and it effects women in every country, at every level of society.

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/us/the-horror-of-honor-killings-even-in-us/

Sure majority of the women are from Muslim countries but pretending it is unheard of in the West is really a denial case as one comment says:

Oh, we have honor killings in the good old USA, and some of them committed by nice, upper-middle class Christian white men. We don't call them honor killings, but any time a woman is shot by her ex-husband, or a raped and left to die by a family member or neighbor, we've got an honor killing. And how many women (mostly, but also men) in this country are abandoned by police when they're beaten by their partners? The sentiment behind the violence is still the same: "Your behavior offends me, so violence is justified."

In the CBC documentary, which I did see, a clear distinction was made verbally: "honor killing" is not an Islamic practice. One of the women interviewed also mentioned this. This is a cultural one. It was even mentioned there are Jews and Christians in Jordan who engage in this sick practice.

http://www.soundvision.com/article/honor-killing-of-women-in-america-and-abroad

Up until 1991 in Brazil, adultery-motivated wife killings were treated as non-criminal and were even called “honour killings.” Until 1981 in Italy, honour was a legal defence for killing a woman, and fathers or brothers who killed their female relatives might only receive a three-to-seven-year sentence. Until the 1970s, under the Code Napoléon, a crime passionel was a valid defence for murder in French law. In England, “provocation” — adultery — was a legal defence for men who killed their wives until 2009. A UN report in 2002 cited the penal codes of many non-Muslim countries — Argentina, Venezuela, Peru and Ecuador — that allow for partial or complete use of a defence of honour.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...erners-guide-to-understanding-honour-killings

So please do educate yourself that it is a real crime and not something linked to any religion!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

What if the lady's hand had a bugger?

I always make a request before shaking hand please clean the hand with high quality soap and then put some nice moisturizer. Nice nail work is appreciated

The hand angle has to be right so it is 90 degree to normal position of the hands in neutral postion if it is 180 degree or so it becomes a high five and we all know that is trouble

I don't do high fives as there is risk of being left hanging, missed high five also has danger of falling on the bosom of the female member very risky move

Would be nice if the hand was not too fat or chubby , wrinkly and nasty. Nice feminine hand

What about fist bump , if you don't do fist bump , well say bye bye to your beloved nationality buddy

Does it have to have soul ?

The macho handshake

Point break hand shake if I was getting nationality I would be doing this one

This type of handshake is not recommended

The "I am starting to like where this is going , Handshake"

 

[jetray]

It is bit harsh decision not to give citizenship just bcos they dint shake hands. Swiss could have been magnanimous by not blowing it up to such an extent. But muslims have done themselves no favor either. They simply cling onto their irrelevant medieval beliefs in the modern age. Forget about integration into society even everyday interaction will become very hard for such ppl. World certainly needs diversity but not obscurantism.

If swiss gave me citizen ship minus no taxes , I would kiss them........err the pretty ladies on their cheeks.

 

[Djinn]

What if the lady's hand had a bugger?

I always make a request before shaking hand please clean the hand with high quality soap and then put some nice moisturizer. Nice nail work is appreciated

The hand also has to come at 15 degree agreeable ratio of Tolorence don't want a handshake approaching me with 90 degree angle as it may become a high five

I don't do high fives as there is risk of being left hanging

Would be nice if the hand was not too fat or chubby , wrinkly and nasty. Nice feminine hand

This is the irony of it. Not only Muslims are being targeted for their religion, but they are not being very smart themselves. I have OCD and i do feel a little uneasy when i have to shake hands with everyone especially men, but it has nothing to do with their skin colour, cast, creed, ethnicity religion or sex. Firstly these boys should have had no issue shaking their teachers hand and if still they had any reservations then they should have made an excuse which wouldn't have heard any ones sentiments e.g like saying they have skin allergies, OCD etc etc.

 

[Penguin]

That's absurd because our women weather mothers sisters or wives cook for us daily we never got sick from that please guys stop it it is really pathetic.

Don't tell me, tell AkshayS (he'the one that started the 'germs issue' in this discussion)

You did not talk about shaking hands which mind you OP is claiming is "courtesy" ?

I suggest you go back an reread the thread.

I put in a story by a lady of the muslim faith, who discussed the issue and how she dealt with it. From there, I learned that traditional etiquette in 'my' part of the world actually spoke to the matter. So, I explored that a little bit. I did not initiate any discussion, in fact I took a - in my own view - very moderate and balance personal position.

.. and I still can't figure out what you are on about. Not the Swiss in any case.

For those who dont understand:

West cries that there is lack of freedom and rights of minorities...Then why is every right of the Muslims questioned so much that even a handshake is viewed with enough reason to halt the citizenship process? How does this come under RIGHT or freedom of ANY form?

Further said, minorities are not allowed to "openly" practice their religion in Muslim countries that they are "specifically" scrutinized, stared and criticized....well, how open is it in say France? Or even how often is Adhan allowed in Europe while the church bells of many small towns rings liberally every 1-2 hrs? How is this not counted as discrimination and hypocrisy while OPENLY bashing Muslim countries for the very things that dont exist in West either?


so shaking hands is a BIG deal? So big that it can be called out for extreme measures?
Interesting to know how "Islamophobic" one can get that they dont even have the freedom of right to choose to shake hands or not in a country screaming FREEDOM!

I suggest you not equate one (report of a) decision in one country with all decisions in 'the west' (<wtf is that anyway? Is India or Pakistan or Japan or China 'the East'? Or all of you's? )

I also suggest you study in detail the Swiss case, just to find ou the details. It is entirely possible important information got lost in the press report. E.g. if there is a (possibility of ) an appeal. Or a court case.

Perhaps you should write a letter to the Swiss embassy in the country where you are, to voice your concerns. For one thing, it could help relieve you apparent anger and frustration. And who know's, you might actually help get something positive done..

True, fact is they are Anti-Islam and they seek excuses to pounce upon Muslims and make them look bad. Just imagine if Pakistan deported foreigners for consuming alcohol in Pakistan, these western hypocrites would be up in flames. It's a shame that Muslims don't enjoy support from the Muslim world, so that they can effectively take on such discrimination in the West.

Which 'they' are you referring to? The Swiss? Or all people of 'the west' (many of whom aren't even in the west)

Today this has little geographic relevance since the concept of the West has been expanded to include the former European colonies in the Americas, Russian Northern Asia, Australia, and New Zealand. In the contemporary cultural meaning, the phrase "Western world" includes Europe, as well as many countries of European colonial origin with substantial European ancestral populations in the Americas and Oceania.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world

The term Eastern world refers very broadly to the various cultures or social structures and philosophical systems of Asia or geographically the countries and cultures east of Europe, north of Oceania.

Traditionally, This includes Central Asia (comprising Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan), the Far East (comprising mainland China, Hong Kong, Japan, Macau, Mongolia, North Korea, South Korea, and Taiwan in East Asia; Russian Far East in North Asia; plus Brunei, Cambodia, East Timor, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam in Southeast Asia), the Middle East (aka the Near East) or Western Asia (comprising Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Cyprus, Georgia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen), Siberia (aka North Asia), and the Indian subcontinent (comprising Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Nepal, Pakistan, Maldives, and Sri Lanka plus the British Indian Ocean Territory and the island countries in the Indian Ocean).

Due to migration of significant numbers of people to countries like the USA, the Eastern World now also comprises these multicultural countries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_world

Confusing, ain't it, when all of a sudden you realize you can't lump all together to form a single 'they' or 'them' ....

talk about extremism....you go from a handshake to killing

No, he actually has a valid point.

no...

Killing is VERY different from refusing a hand shake!

Of course they are different. The point wasn't that they were the same. The point was, if you religion can be an excuse so that you do not have to follow the law in one thing, then by extension that can hold for all things.

 

[Djinn]

Which 'they' are you referring to? The Swiss? Or all people of 'the west' (many of whom aren't even in the west)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_world

Confusing, ain't it, when all of a sudden you realize you can't lump all together to form a single 'they' or 'them' ....


No, he actually has a valid point.

LOL you have a habit of trying to make sense out of something that doesn't even exist. You know exactly who i was referring to and i don't think i have to feed your "Brain Farts" to lead the discussion astray.