Steady progress in building ASEAN Economic Community

[Viet]

@kalu_miah

Actually we never see Australia as a threat to us, it is more like a healthy rivalry....And as I have said already in other thread, Indonesia likes to stay neutral, Japan has tried to make Indonesia into their club recently, but didn't work, even we rejected USA when USA tried to make us siding in this issue.

The only way to contain China in term of how Indonesia can help is only by helping us to be stronger nation, and South Korea has done it by bringing us into their Stealth Fighter Program (and share some sensitive technology with us). Germany, France, Dutch do help us in improving our defense industry. USA on the other hand, start offering us with high tech weapon like Apache Guardian, something that we cannot get when China was still a major power

Japan can do the same, and we need help in engine development,

Regional powers

Major regional powers in teal, and minor regional powers in light teal

Regional power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry but Indonesia is such a cowardice country. You are willing to lick chinese asx in the hope to get some yuan in return. If you're a regional power, you would have acted differently.

 

[somsak]

ASEAN countries by themselves do not have as much potential.

Friend, not angry me but I simply do not agree. We can now output Plastics, Steel, Ship Building, Cargo Ship company etc, and even Automobile. In automobile, we do not have core technology. But we can be part producer in Japanese Car supply chain. In steal, we just acquire England's iron mine, though the company that acquire it is about to collapse . We also have private banks and government banks.

For example, In Thailand Stock exchange we have

http://www.set.or.th/en/products/index/setindex_p2.html

 

[Genesis]

ASEAN countries by themselves do not have as much potential, so if you are talking about South East Asia, I would agree with your sentiment. But what makes this case different is inclusion of Japanese and Koreans at the helm. And then there is the Muslim world dimension in it as well, which is also relevant.

South Korea and China has a working relationship, why would they destroy it and go to war? If they are on the fence about going to war along side US, they won't along side ASEAN?

Japan for as much as posture, they don't want an actual war. Why? Abenomics, a war would devastate Japan, and Abe's actual actions have clearly demonstrated that he cares more about his political career, hence no visit to Shrine first time PM, and the economy of Japan.

He's not going to throw that away. He will posture here and there, but in the end nothing will be actually done. Japan may do a few things here and there, but in reality, they won't go as far as war. Abe faces criticism from just some small change to the pacifist thing, how will he look going to war? Especially in a war that doesn't concern Japan. I'm sure he knows.

Look at east sea, it's very safe there, nothing will happen, unlike SCS where we are already taking islands. Even if something unfortunate happens in ECS, there will still be enough excuse for no war. Because both side don't want war.

Don't look to Japan and Korea, they won't lead against China, why would they? What would they gain? Germany defeating France gave them great power status, or even super power, K+J defeat China means nothing, China is still far and away the stronger nation even if we do lose.

I wonder how many retards and morons like you live in China?
a racist pretending to be a liberal. Just disgusting.

Sorry but Indonesia is such a cowardice country. You are willing to lick chinese asx in the hope to get some yuan in return.

Clearly I'm the racist, also the word retard is not politically correct anymore. What I described is the unfortunate effect of perpetual poverty and lack of worldly experience as well as education and prestige. Any race having this would have this effect. Including Chinese, british, or Germans and even Japanese.

What you are saying is just a personal attack based on nothing.

 

[kalu_miah]

Friend, not angry me but I simply do not agree. We can now output Plastics, Steel, Ship Building, Cargo Ship company etc, and even Automobile. In automobile, we do not have core technology. But we can be part producer in Japanese Car supply chain. In steal, we just acquire England's iron mine, though the company that acquire it is about to collapse . We also have private banks and government banks.

For example, In Thailand Stock exchange we have

http://www.set.or.th/en/products/index/setindex_p2.html

I am not putting down South East Asia, but in order to compete with the big league, Japanese and their little brother Korea's joint leadership is an essential element, that is all I am saying. Just look at global brands to understand what I mean. All of us can be great foot soldiers, but we must allow the leaders to lead.

 

[Nike]

Whoever said ASEAN doesn't have any potential value, let me remind him ASEAN itself has a greater economy value than the entire India subcontinent and we do that with less population than theirs.

 

[kalu_miah]

South Korea and China has a working relationship, why would they destroy it and go to war? If they are on the fence about going to war along side US, they won't along side ASEAN?

Japan for as much as posture, they don't want an actual war. Why? Abenomics, a war would devastate Japan, and Abe's actual actions have clearly demonstrated that he cares more about his political career, hence no visit to Shrine first time PM, and the economy of Japan.

He's not going to throw that away. He will posture here and there, but in the end nothing will be actually done. Japan may do a few things here and there, but in reality, they won't go as far as war. Abe faces criticism from just some small change to the pacifist thing, how will he look going to war? Especially in a war that doesn't concern Japan. I'm sure he knows.

Look at east sea, it's very safe there, nothing will happen, unlike SCS where we are already taking islands. Even if something unfortunate happens in ECS, there will still be enough excuse for no war. Because both side don't want war.

Don't look to Japan and Korea, they won't lead against China, why would they? What would they gain? Germany defeating France gave them great power status, or even super power, K+J defeat China means nothing, China is still far and away the stronger nation even if we do lose.

Clearly I'm the racist, also the word retard is not politically correct anymore. What I described is the unfortunate effect of perpetual poverty and lack of worldly experience as well as education and prestige. Any race having this would have this effect. Including Chinese, british, or Germans and even Japanese.

What you are saying is just a personal attack based on nothing.

South Korea initially will not join. Only Japan can make this project happen. If Japan starts then Koreans will automatically follow, they will not have a choice. Don't ask me how I know this, lets just say that some really nationalistic Korean told me that.

Creating mutual defense treaty does not mean going to war, it is working to minimize threat and the chance of war. If you have no objection to US bases in Japan and Korea, why should you worry about additional alliances?

No one is leading against China, we are talking about mutual defensive alliance. Sovereign countries can and will take decisions to ensure their own security.

 

[somsak]

I am not putting down South East Asia, but in order to compete with the big league, Japanese and their little brother Korea's joint leadership is an essential element, that is all I am saying. Just look at global brands to understand what I mean. All of us can be great foot soldiers, but we must allow the leaders to lead.

Our government policy has always reiterate the importance of "ASEAN centrality". I think it means that 10 member countries are the core, then ASEAN+3, is periferal. If we let other country to "lead" ASEAN, then for an outsider, why do I need to talk to ASEAN? Shouldn't I go straight to talk to the leader?

ASEAN is a platform for free skilled labor movement, single market, free movement of capitals over ASEAN. That's all it is. Its nothing much to do with product or brand. In long run, the price of product in ASEAN will be the same. The product/service within ASEAN will be similar. If you are an invester to open a shop, it is much easier. Its nothing else. Not yet.

 

[kalu_miah]

Whoever said ASEAN doesn't have any potential value, let me remind him ASEAN itself has a greater economy value than the entire India subcontinent and we do that with less population than theirs.

You are misunderstanding my post and someone quoting me out of context. What I said was that South East Asia does not have potential to compete as a rival with China, but it can happen with Japanese and Korean leadership. I agree with you that South Asia is a mess and doing much worse than SEA.

Our government policy has always reiterate the importance of "ASEAN centrality". I think it means that 10 member countries are the core, then ASEAN+3, is periferal. If we let other country to "lead" ASEAN, then for an outsider, why do I need to talk to ASEAN? Shouldn't I go straight to talk to the leader?

ASEAN is a platform for free skilled labor movement, single market, free movement of capitals over ASEAN. That's all it is. Its nothing much to do with product or brand. In long run, the price of product in ASEAN will be the same. The product/service within ASEAN will be similar. If you are an invester to open a shop, it is much easier. Its nothing else. Not yet.

The discussion some of us posters were having was not exactly about ASEAN but rather something different. Please reread post #34:
Steady progress in building ASEAN Economic Community | Page 3

 

[Indos]

Non alignment had its glory days. Till today many large and small nations think that they can gain the most by not taking sides. But as the entire globe is slowly getting developed and integrated as a result, country after country, region after region, it will be difficult for nation states to stay aloof, except for really large ones like India for example, who is kind of a regional union of its own with multiple ethno-religious groups. I think Indonesia archipelago is similarly diverse like India, but it is only around 1/5th the size of India. Despite its much smaller size, I believe why Indonesia can afford to remain nonaligned is because it is an island nation. And other than much smaller Malaysia, it has no large neighbor that threatens its existence, the way India threatens the existence of Bangladesh or Pakistan for example.

Another important issue is of course China, which is on its way to become a peer power of the US and Indonesia may not want to upset China by joining this alliance. Bangladesh would feel the same way as Indonesia, if we were not threatened by a big neighbor.

Please let me know if my above impressions are correct or off the mark.

My feeling is that when Indonesia will see that other countries who have joined the alliance are benefiting from their decision then Indonesia may be persuaded to join. The reason I am optimistic is the size factor, yes Indonesia is the largest country in South East Asia, but compared to great Titans like China, India and West (a combined population of about 1 billion), this 250 million is a small number. Any group or nation state that is less than 500 million will not become very powerful in the long run, specially when they are in the neighborhood of 1.3 billion Chinese and 1.2 billion Indians.

@Nihonjin1051

As I said before, we prefers cooperation in military hardware and defense industry if we want to help each other to contain China power, just like South Korea has done to us in the last recent years. Japan can also help us in engine development if Japan wants to use Indonesia as a buffer of China influence. It is better for Indonesia to be an honest broker in this conflict, as we know that almost every body has taken side now, but surely anything can happen in the future geopolitics.

Indonesia also has a good card in the Muslim world. And we have proved to the world that we helped Pakistan during his war, as well as Pakistan helped Indonesia during our independence war. For the mean time, we just get close to one another in defense industry sector that is just initiated recently (Turkey/Iran/Saudi). We don't know what will happen in the future but Muslim nations are always close to one another.

@Viet

We are not coward as we even has been dare to challenge British along with their follower (Aussie/New Zealand) in Malaysia soil some times ago. We did aggressive move to British, not in a defending mode like we also had in our independence war in which we won against both British and Dutch. No body can say Muslim as weak, as the world has been witnessing that Muslim men are not afraid to face battle.

List of wars involving Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



@Cossack25A1

Philippines economy is growing fast now, about 7 percent.

 

[Viet]

South Korea and China has a working relationship, why would they destroy it and go to war? If they are on the fence about going to war along side US, they won't along side ASEAN?

Japan for as much as posture, they don't want an actual war. Why? Abenomics, a war would devastate Japan, and Abe's actual actions have clearly demonstrated that he cares more about his political career, hence no visit to Shrine first time PM, and the economy of Japan.

He's not going to throw that away. He will posture here and there, but in the end nothing will be actually done. Japan may do a few things here and there, but in reality, they won't go as far as war. Abe faces criticism from just some small change to the pacifist thing, how will he look going to war? Especially in a war that doesn't concern Japan. I'm sure he knows.

Look at east sea, it's very safe there, nothing will happen, unlike SCS where we are already taking islands. Even if something unfortunate happens in ECS, there will still be enough excuse for no war. Because both side don't want war.

Don't look to Japan and Korea, they won't lead against China, why would they? What would they gain? Germany defeating France gave them great power status, or even super power, K+J defeat China means nothing, China is still far and away the stronger nation even if we do lose.




Clearly I'm the racist, also the word retard is not politically correct anymore. What I described is the unfortunate effect of perpetual poverty and lack of worldly experience as well as education and prestige. Any race having this would have this effect. Including Chinese, british, or Germans and even Japanese.

What you are saying is just a personal attack based on nothing.

You're a racist that believes to a racial theory of superior Chinese master race. Other smaller countries and people are inferior and hence must surrender all of their belongings to you. In your world view, those inferior creatures don't deserve the right to choose how they want to live.

If so, I wonder why you always cry and whine about Japanese killings. You should know not only the Japanese had seen you as parasites but also the Germans.

Don't complain if you love to play the racial card.

I have visited many countries in the world, met many people from black to yellow to white. Don't try to pretend to be intelligent to hide your racism.

 

[Nike]

Sorry but Indonesia is such a cowardice country. You are willing to lick chinese asx in the hope to get some yuan in return. If you're a regional power, you would have acted differently.

that's why Vietnam never experienced a long term peace conditions after their independence. Too much Nationalism fervor and never trying to get a cold head to solve your problems diplomatically and elegantly. How i can say that, very much prove how Vietnam never fit to get a position as Indonesian are in ASEAN as a big brother. Who do you think getting the Cambodian back into track after their mishaps in the last conference by doing backdoor diplomacy? Who do you think trying so hard to getting the Chinese back to sit in the table and doing the talks regarding the South China Sea conflicts?

In ASEAN only Singapore who can acting in the same level of maturity as Indonesian in diplomatic stage, and together we bring ASEAN into another level than other regional organization in the world except of European Organizations. ASEAN itself never expect too much from Vietnam.

 

[somsak]

You are misunderstanding my post and someone quoting me out of context. What I said was that South East Asia does not have potential to compete as a rival with China, but it can happen with Japanese and Korean leadership. I agree with you that South Asia is a mess and doing much worse than SEA.



The discussion some of us posters were having was not exactly about ASEAN but rather something different. Please reread post #34:
Steady progress in building ASEAN Economic Community | Page 3

A military bloc against China? US probably want that to happen.
China is important to our security. Please see 2 of our princess on Chinese culture and arts.

Princess writing Chinese Characters.

Princess Sirinthorn with Deng Xiaoping.

Princess Chulabhorn on Chinese music.

ASEAN is not a single country. Each ASEAN member states are suspicious of each other.

To let you know, Year 1979 without China, Vietnam would have successfully invaded Thailand. I would have been speaking Vietnamese by now.

 

[Cossack25A1]

@Cossack25A1

Philippines economy is growing fast now, about 7 percent.

It is growing but it is irrelevant if there are no jobs made and less investors investing here because of economic restrictions. In fact, if the Overseas Filipino Workers are taken out of the picture, the PH economy will be in shambles because the reality is that as much as I hate to say this but the PH's number one export are Filipino overseas workers.

 

[xunzi]

I am not putting down South East Asia, but in order to compete with the big league, Japanese and their little brother Korea's joint leadership is an essential element, that is all I am saying. Just look at global brands to understand what I mean. All of us can be great foot soldiers, but we must allow the leaders to lead.

Korean would not accept leadership from Japan. This fact I know. You can ask any Korean.

I want to remind everyone that we, China, will not oppose any alliance as long as you do not target a particular country. If your intention to create alliance is to target us, do prepare that we will have a positive response.

 

[Genesis]

You're a racist that believes to a racial theory of superior Chinese master race. Other smaller countries and people are inferior and hence must surrender all of their belongings to you. In your world view, those inferior creatures don't deserve the right to choose how they want to live.

If so, I wonder why you always cry and whine about Japanese killings. You should know not only the Japanese had seen you as parasites but also the Germans.

Don't complain if you love to play the racial card.

I have visited many countries in the world, met many people from black to yellow to white. Don't try to pretend to be intelligent to hide your racism.

Even though I said everyone is essentially the same under the same system I'm the racist. You are the one that like to play the racial card.

China being one of the few Great powers that doesn't care how anyone does their business is the one that stops you from living like how you want? You want to know what real interventionist powers are? After that protest you guys had that destroyed Chinese overseas property and resulted in death, Vietnam would have been in flames if we ere, but instead what you do in your country is your business, not ours. Don't know don't want to know.

Your second paragraphs clearly illustrates your obsession with race.


But don't take my word for it, if you like grab a few neutral parties on this forum and let them judge.