Steady progress in building ASEAN Economic Community

[BDforever]

We are the country that treated Muslims best, Sunni, Shia and Ahmdya can worship freely. Our Muslim neighbors Malaysia shitt on their own Shia and Ahmadya,

Muslims are blind to their own shitt and keep thinking they are victim.

why are you crying what malaysia does to shia or Ahmadya ? after all they muslims to you too, you would be happy
singapore is not only country in that case
btw here it is you who is playing victim card if you go through the thread

 

[Cossack25A1]

What kind(s) of economic policy changes?

The Philippine 1987 constitution has a "Protectionist clause" or what we call "60/40-Restriction."
This constitution was made during the reign of the Noynoy Aquino's mother... which is seen by several Filipinos living here and outside as the worst.

Article XII Section 2

All lands of the public domain, waters, minerals, coal, petroleum, and other mineral oils, all forces of potential energy, fisheries, forests or timber, wildlife, flora and fauna, and other natural resources are owned by the State. With the exception of agricultural lands, all other natural resources shall not be alienated. The exploration, development, and utilization of natural resources shall be under the full control and supervision of the State. The State may directly undertake such activities, or it may enter into co-production, joint venture, or production-sharing agreements with Filipino citizens, or corporations or associations at least sixty per centum of whose capital is owned by such citizens. Such agreements may be for a period not exceeding twenty-five years, renewable for not more than twenty-five years, and under such terms and conditions as may be provided by law. In cases of water rights for irrigation, water supply fisheries, or industrial uses other than the development of water power, beneficial use may be the measure and limit of the grant.

A foreign investor can only own 40% of the investment and the remaining 60% is under Filipino control. Foreigner investors are barred from owning land, media, internet and some of the basic necessities such as food industry. The consequence of this restriction is mediocre services, mediocre products, a lousy internet service which you must pay $23 per month and must pay higher just to get a slightly better service, highest power rates in Asia yet the electric service is substandard with chances of power shortages, leaving some places in the country with no power from a few hours to almost a day, no-new jobs made save for the Business process outsourcing, thus high unemployment rate, media that shows sub-par standard shows with some have subliminal immorality and racism, dumb-down movies and senseless showbiz news that are complete waste of time.

These restriction basically had us shooting at our feet every time an opportunity appears in front of us. I even predict that in a few years time, Myanmar could surpass us as Vietnam have likely surpass us economically, placing us at the same level as Cambodia and Laos or even at the same economic level as Timor Leste.

The problem about changing the constitution is that if anyone raises the issue and pledges to change it, the local media and other politicians will lambast the person who is in favor of changing the economic restriction with a few militant groups calling them "foreigner's whore" and other derogatory terms. The netizens and local people on the other hand will most likely believe these blackmails. The local oligarchs which are dominated by the local Filipino-Chinese community are against the idea of relaxing the economic restriction as they see such moves as a threat to their business because they know that once direct foreign-owned services appear here in the Philippines, it would be a matter of time before they go out of business unless they adapt which I doubt as the only competition they got here in the Philippines is another company established by the same oligarchy

Had the restriction been lifted, it would reduce the number of the Filipinos leaving the country just to look for jobs, we have better services, more informative shows, low electricity rates.

 

[Aepsilons]

Thank you @Cossack25A1 !

 

[kalu_miah]

@kalu_miah ,

I'd like to read your point of view here.

First of all, my apologies to the great Chinese friends in the forum. This idea is not supposed to be an anti-China bloc, but rather it will be for mutual self-defence.

@Indos you may want to take a look here in this thread as well.

Lets look at current regional situation. We have a rising China, which is coming into territorial conflict with many regional states:

Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei

There is a Pivot to Asia, where US is putting more emphasis in this region, so it can support these countries to counter any potential threat from China.

ASEAN has been there for many decades, there has been some progress on many fronts, but lets admit the truth, it is nothing like EU. What can change this situation is if we do not go for a union like EU, but rather go for a military alliance like NATO in this space.

I think it can start with the countries I mentioned above and then try to include more countries in the region:
Japan
Vietnam
Philippines
Malaysia
Brunei

I am not sure how Indonesia feels about its own threat perception, I think Australia is a concern. I think Burma feels some level of discomfort from bigger neighbors China and India mostly, but Bangladesh and Thailand to a smaller extent. So it is trying to get closer to the West to end its isolation.

Both Bangladesh and Sri Lanka are in South Asia, but common factor for us is both of us feel threatened by big regional neighbor, India. So both are close to China in order to balance the threat from India.

If Bangladesh and Sri Lanka are invited, they may join at some stage, if they see that this military alliance can ensure their need for security.

Convincing Indonesia to join will be the big challenge and it will be the key for the success of this military alliance.

ASEAN did not make progress, because the countries are not ready for EU type regional union, they are not as developed as Western European countries that led the EU effort.

If Japan is there to lead, not a regional union but rather a military alliance, initially with interested countries, then I think there might be some interesting future for this. If we look at all countries that are South and East of China and East of India, these countries are:

Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, Philippines, Papua New Guinea, East Timor, South Korea, North Korea, Japan

I did not include Taiwan because it is considered as a part of China by most countries above. I did not include India, because India as a large country of more than a billion people have its own great power ambitions in the future. Just like China, India have no need to band together in a team of small nations to ensure mutual security. Also a large nation like India will not accept leadership from small nations like Japan or South Korea.

There is close to a billion people in these countries and I think a military alliance would be good. This can then create a secure and peaceful situation which would facilitate regional integration, increase people to people contact and develop the economy of these countries, under Japanese and South Korean leadership, with close economic partnership from China.

Although initially NATO and Australia may be close to this military alliance, the whole idea is to create a rather independent alliance structure and as it matures, it can slowly move away from NATO, when it becomes self sufficient enough with its own weapon systems production. That is why I did not include Australia in this, as it is obviously a part of the West and would not belong in this alliance.

If this idea is ok with the initial countries involved, then we can discuss details of this military alliance.

 

[Indos]

@kalu_miah

Actually we never see Australia as a threat to us, it is more like a healthy rivalry....And as I have said already in other thread, Indonesia likes to stay neutral, Japan has tried to make Indonesia into their club recently, but didn't work, even we rejected USA when USA tried to make us siding in this issue.

The only way to contain China in term of how Indonesia can help is only by helping us to be stronger nation, and South Korea has done it by bringing us into their Stealth Fighter Program (and share some sensitive technology with us). Germany, France, Dutch do help us in improving our defense industry. USA on the other hand, start offering us with high tech weapon like Apache Guardian, something that we cannot get when China was still a major power

Japan can do the same, and we need help in engine development,

Regional powers

Major regional powers in teal, and minor regional powers in light teal

Regional power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Aepsilons]

@Indos , @kalu_miah

I think that a military alliance included in this security alliance would have to include at least: Japan , South Korea (+/- North Korea), Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Malaysia , Brunei.

There are reasons why Included Bangladesh in this and not Sri Lanka. For one, Sri Lanka is rather small and is too close to the geopolitical orbit of India. Bangladesh would be , to just be direct, essential, namely her huge man power and potential for growth. With a population at over 150 million, and a relatively young population. Indonesia would complete the alliance because of its large population as well at 260 million and well educated at that. Also, one of the reasons why I listed these two is because these two countries are predominantly muslim , and would actually allow greater cooperation between this security alliance and other muslim nations in central asia to the middle east.

The strength i see from this alliance is the technological viability, but also the combined naval might. Strategically, this alliance could control the trade that traverses from the Persian Gulf to the Indian Ocean destined for the Far East.

What i would ask you two, if you guys are interested in hypothetical scenarios would be : Besides China, what nations or groups of nations would eventually confront this security alliance.

 

[kalu_miah]

@Indos , @kalu_miah

I think that a military alliance included in this security alliance would have to include at least: Japan , South Korea (+/- North Korea), Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Malaysia , Brunei.

There are reasons why Included Bangladesh in this and not Sri Lanka. For one, Sri Lanka is rather small and is too close to the geopolitical orbit of India. Bangladesh would be , to just be direct, essential, namely her huge man power and potential for growth. With a population at over 150 million, and a relatively young population. Indonesia would complete the alliance because of its large population as well at 260 million and well educated at that. Also, one of the reasons why I listed these two is because these two countries are predominantly muslim , and would actually allow greater cooperation between this security alliance and other muslim nations in central asia to the middle east.

The strength i see from this alliance is the technological viability, but also the combined naval might. Strategically, this alliance could control the trade that traverses from the Persian Gulf to the Indian Ocean destined for the Far East.

What i would ask you two, if you guys are interested in hypothetical scenarios would be : Besides China, what nations or groups of nations would eventually confront this security alliance.

Thanks for the confidence in Bangladesh.

I agree about Sri Lanka, it is a bit small and its inclusion may irk India too much.

As for confrontation, India as a Naval power will want to remain friendly with this group, as it will be in their interest to maintain good relations with this alliance to balance the threat from China, just like they will want to maintain good relations with NATO/West, but they will make a big fuss about Bangladesh's inclusion in this alliance, as they consider Bangladesh to be their property.

Pakistan and Arabs will be friendly powers, but not sure about Iranians. An integrated Arab League and an integrated Iran-Pakistan-Afghanistan-Turkey (the South Eurasian bloc) will hopefully move Iran closer towards its neighbors and away from too much influence from other powers.

This alliance, if it can develop indigenous weapons systems, has the potential to become the source for standard military hardware for most Muslim nations of the world. This will provide tremendous economies of scale for the defense related industry within this alliance. You are talking about 1 billion people in this region and another 1 billion Muslims in Southern Eurasia and Arab League. Our beloved brother from Singapore @Lux de Veritas of course will get a heart attack.

 

[Aepsilons]

@Lux de Veritas of course will get a heart attack.

....

 

[Pakistanisage]

Very Sad to see that Muslim Countries just make meek protestations against this injustice.

 

[somsak]

Asean - ASEAN rules out military alliance

bad article writing, topic not included in the news body

 

[Cossack25A1]

Hardware-wise, I doubt that the PH Military can contribute with anything. Being bogged down with communist and Islamic insurgents and combined with rampant corruption and excessive bureaucracy in the military made the PH military "weak" in terms of equipment and hardware. We have no MBTs (the closest armor we have to a "tank" is the 76mm-gun FV101 Scorpion), our Air Force doesn't have much assets (the Korean made FA-50 will arrive sometime in 2015), our navy has "hands-me-down" ships, WW2-era ships and boats suitable for patrols only.

 

[kalu_miah]

@kalu_miah

Actually we never see Australia as a threat to us, it is more like a healthy rivalry....And as I have said already in other thread, Indonesia likes to stay neutral, Japan has tried to make Indonesia into their club recently, but didn't work, even we rejected USA when USA tried to make us siding in this issue.

The only way to contain China in term of how Indonesia can help is only by helping us to be stronger nation, and South Korea has done it by bringing us into their Stealth Fighter Program (and share some sensitive technology with us). Germany, France, Dutch do help us in improving our defense industry. USA on the other hand, start offering us with high tech weapon like Apache Guardian, something that we cannot get when China was still a major power

Japan can do the same, and we need help in engine development,

Regional powers

Major regional powers in teal, and minor regional powers in light teal

Regional power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Non alignment had its glory days. Till today many large and small nations think that they can gain the most by not taking sides. But as the entire globe is slowly getting developed and integrated as a result, country after country, region after region, it will be difficult for nation states to stay aloof, except for really large ones like India for example, who is kind of a regional union of its own with multiple ethno-religious groups. I think Indonesia archipelago is similarly diverse like India, but it is only around 1/5th the size of India. Despite its much smaller size, I believe why Indonesia can afford to remain nonaligned is because it is an island nation. And other than much smaller Malaysia, it has no large neighbor that threatens its existence, the way India threatens the existence of Bangladesh or Pakistan for example.

Another important issue is of course China, which is on its way to become a peer power of the US and Indonesia may not want to upset China by joining this alliance. Bangladesh would feel the same way as Indonesia, if we were not threatened by a big neighbor.

Please let me know if my above impressions are correct or off the mark.

My feeling is that when Indonesia will see that other countries who have joined the alliance are benefiting from their decision then Indonesia may be persuaded to join. The reason I am optimistic is the size factor, yes Indonesia is the largest country in South East Asia, but compared to great Titans like China, India and West (a combined population of about 1 billion), this 250 million is a small number. Any group or nation state that is less than 500 million will not become very powerful in the long run, specially when they are in the neighborhood of 1.3 billion Chinese and 1.2 billion Indians.

 

[Genesis]

First of all, my apologies to the great Chinese friends in the forum. This idea is not supposed to be an anti-China bloc, but rather it will be for mutual self-defence.

@Indos you may want to take a look here in this thread as well.

Lets look at current regional situation. We have a rising China, which is coming into territorial conflict with many regional states:

Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei

There is a Pivot to Asia, where US is putting more emphasis in this region, so it can support these countries to counter any potential threat from China.

ASEAN has been there for many decades, there has been some progress on many fronts, but lets admit the truth, it is nothing like EU. What can change this situation is if we do not go for a union like EU, but rather go for a military alliance like NATO in this space.

I think it can start with the countries I mentioned above and then try to include more countries in the region:
Japan
Vietnam
Philippines
Malaysia
Brunei

I am not sure how Indonesia feels about its own threat perception, I think Australia is a concern. I think Burma feels some level of discomfort from bigger neighbors China and India mostly, but Bangladesh and Thailand to a smaller extent. So it is trying to get closer to the West to end its isolation.

Both Bangladesh and Sri Lanka are in South Asia, but common factor for us is both of us feel threatened by big regional neighbor, India. So both are close to China in order to balance the threat from India.

If Bangladesh and Sri Lanka are invited, they may join at some stage, if they see that this military alliance can ensure their need for security.

Convincing Indonesia to join will be the big challenge and it will be the key for the success of this military alliance.

ASEAN did not make progress, because the countries are not ready for EU type regional union, they are not as developed as Western European countries that led the EU effort.

If Japan is there to lead, not a regional union but rather a military alliance, initially with interested countries, then I think there might be some interesting future for this. If we look at all countries that are South and East of China and East of India, these countries are:

Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, Philippines, Papua New Guinea, East Timor, South Korea, North Korea, Japan

I did not include Taiwan because it is considered as a part of China by most countries above. I did not include India, because India as a large country of more than a billion people have its own great power ambitions in the future. Just like China, India have no need to band together in a team of small nations to ensure mutual security. Also a large nation like India will not accept leadership from small nations like Japan or South Korea.

There is close to a billion people in these countries and I think a military alliance would be good. This can then create a secure and peaceful situation which would facilitate regional integration, increase people to people contact and develop the economy of these countries, under Japanese and South Korean leadership, with close economic partnership from China.

Although initially NATO and Australia may be close to this military alliance, the whole idea is to create a rather independent alliance structure and as it matures, it can slowly move away from NATO, when it becomes self sufficient enough with its own weapon systems production. That is why I did not include Australia in this, as it is obviously a part of the West and would not belong in this alliance.

If this idea is ok with the initial countries involved, then we can discuss details of this military alliance.

That has as much chance to succeed as Chinese has in growing wings.

Nice idea, but the thing is you don't have some very fundamental understanding of these people. They are who they are not because of China, but because of themselves. I don't fear them because I understand them, selfish, cowardly, and ultimately greedy and idealistic.

I'm not saying this to be racist, but I am saying this because their country made them like this. The classic signs of a weak nation, we should know, we were at one time. This isn't a racist remark, and generalization, because in other circumstances, like US, they can be quite successful, just not in their own country.


I'll just ask you one thing, mutual defense means they must all send troops, don't count Chinese WMDs, and let's say ASEAN can win too, even though it can't, but let's say they can, how many of those country are prepared to lose at least 60% of the forces they sent.

How many are willing to have their people killed, country destroyed, for another nation?

I never fear beggars, because they are who they are due to lack of action, I fear gentlemen, expensive suit is the trademark of a ruthless person.

For all the weak Americans, and brave Asians, only Americans I have absolute confidence in that they will finish a fight no matter the cost. Yea, I don't buy the playboy American theory.

 

[kalu_miah]

That has as much chance to succeed as Chinese has in growing wings.

Nice idea, but the thing is you don't have some very fundamental understanding of these people. They are who they are not because of China, but because of themselves. I don't fear them because I understand them, selfish, cowardly, and ultimately greedy and idealistic.

I'm not saying this to be racist, but I am saying this because their country made them like this. The classic signs of a weak nation, we should know, we were at one time. This isn't a racist remark, and generalization, because in other circumstances, like US, they can be quite successful, just not in their own country.


I'll just ask you one thing, mutual defense means they must all send troops, don't count Chinese WMDs, and let's say ASEAN can win too, even though it can't, but let's say they can, how many of those country are prepared to lose at least 60% of the forces they sent.

How many are willing to have their people killed, country destroyed, for another nation?

I never fear beggars, because they are who they are due to lack of action, I fear gentlemen, expensive suit is the trademark of a ruthless person.

For all the weak Americans, and brave Asians, only Americans I have absolute confidence in that they will finish a fight no matter the cost. Yea, I don't buy the playboy American theory.

ASEAN countries by themselves do not have as much potential, so if you are talking about South East Asia, I would agree with your sentiment. But what makes this case different is inclusion of Japanese and Koreans at the helm. And then there is the Muslim world dimension in it as well, which is also relevant.

 

[Viet]

That has as much chance to succeed as Chinese has in growing wings.

Nice idea, but the thing is you don't have some very fundamental understanding of these people. They are who they are not because of China, but because of themselves. I don't fear them because I understand them, selfish, cowardly, and ultimately greedy and idealistic.

I'm not saying this to be racist, but I am saying this because their country made them like this. The classic signs of a weak nation, we should know, we were at one time. This isn't a racist remark, and generalization, because in other circumstances, like US, they can be quite successful, just not in their own country.


I'll just ask you one thing, mutual defense means they must all send troops, don't count Chinese WMDs, and let's say ASEAN can win too, even though it can't, but let's say they can, how many of those country are prepared to lose at least 60% of the forces they sent.

How many are willing to have their people killed, country destroyed, for another nation?

I never fear beggars, because they are who they are due to lack of action, I fear gentlemen, expensive suit is the trademark of a ruthless person.

For all the weak Americans, and brave Asians, only Americans I have absolute confidence in that they will finish a fight no matter the cost. Yea, I don't buy the playboy American theory.

I wonder how many retards and morons like you live in China?
a racist pretending to be a liberal. Just disgusting.