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Shelling in Baramulla Kashmir by India


Pakistani Newspaper,glorifying the terrorism since 1947.. :tdown::tdown:

Meanwhile...

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...i-confesses-he-is-from-pakistan/1/726016.html

Your so called "Kashmiri Youth"..

pak-terrorist-exposes-vdeo_647_072816021041.jpg


Bahadur Ali,belonged to Jahama village near Raiwind area of Lahore.
 
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Yeah we know he is a member of the kabotar brigade

Same Kabotar like Kasav,OBL,Mullah Mansoor,Mullah Omar and its hundred thousands companions who are making Pakistan pride by waging "Jihad" in every nook and corner of this earth??Yeah right..

Government officials in Austria have announced the immediate extradition of a pair of migrants suspected of being Islamic State fighters who are part of a much larger terror network. The migrants will be sent to France as they are suspected of having connections to the attackers who killed 130 people, mostly at the Bataclan nightclub in central Paris. The process of extradition has taken over eight months and has finally been approved, Wiener Zeitung Online reports.

Both migrants, a 35-year-old Pakistani national named Muhammed U., and an unnamed 29-year-old Algerian asylum seeker, were caught in December of last year a month following the Paris terror attacks. According to officials the pair have direct links to the terror cell that carried out the massacre and are believed to be members of Islamic State.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07/28/austria-extradites-islamic-state-fighters-france/
 
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It's not about Dharmic or Abrahmic religion as direct fact but indirectly a similar culture (not religion) people are most probable to select same country compared to Hindu choosing Muslim country or a confuscious choosing a Christian country for the basic reason. Sorry if you got religion based input from my post. Not my intention.

Thank you brother. Please, I am not trying to be difficult, but I must disagree again. But I'll back it up with a personal perspective rather than the broad sweeping brushes some here prefer to use.

My culture is Indian. My look is Indian. Anyone can spot me as an Indian anywhere. The way I dress, Indian. The way I carry what I dress in, Indian. The food I eat, if you leave out the pork and beef bit, but just the food types and preparations and masalas, Indian. The way I talk, so Indian. My values, Indian. My history and lineage, Indian. The soil of my ancestors, Indian.

You are making the argument that a person leave all of the above, and migrate to an alien country where the only common thread is that of my faith, which is not Indian. Or Dharmic, as you put it, which I protested to, as being ascribed to the land, because there are those on and of this land who are not Dharmic anymore. Have not been Dharmic for varying lengths of time.

You may well point out Pakistan. Which some may say offers a non-Dharmic like me ALL of the above + my non Dharmic, non Indian faith as well.

But this is where most non Muslim Indians today misunderstand most of us Muslim Indians who at different times in our lives have been made to feel like others in our own homeland.

Simply put, we are not Pakistanis. Not now. Not in 1947. Read into this simple statement what you will.

Yes I am not going to be dishonest. Not all among us think like me. Many Kashmiris for example. Some UPites. Some Biharis. Some Hyderabadis. Some Keralites. Many in certain ghettos of New Mumbai. Which is why I started off by saying let me share my personal perspective.

So no, I will not move to another country because some of my countrymen think I would be more "culturally" comfortable there. Hope that clarifies.

@User just so you know how I tick.
 
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Same Kabotar like Kasav,OBL,Mullah Mansoor,Mullah Omar and its hundred thousands companions who are making Pakistan pride by waging "Jihad" in every nook and corner of this earth??Yeah right..

Government officials in Austria have announced the immediate extradition of a pair of migrants suspected of being Islamic State fighters who are part of a much larger terror network. The migrants will be sent to France as they are suspected of having connections to the attackers who killed 130 people, mostly at the Bataclan nightclub in central Paris. The process of extradition has taken over eight months and has finally been approved, Wiener Zeitung Online reports.

Both migrants, a 35-year-old Pakistani national named Muhammed U., and an unnamed 29-year-old Algerian asylum seeker, were caught in December of last year a month following the Paris terror attacks. According to officials the pair have direct links to the terror cell that carried out the massacre and are believed to be members of Islamic State.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07/28/austria-extradites-islamic-state-fighters-france/
A scapegoat to justify human rights violations by the indian state nothing more they did that in the past
 
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Well I already have said, there are high chances and if it true my prayers to them. Remember one event leads to another.
Earlier they protested and with a large # of people. And later this video was shared by a Kashmiri. There are high chances for this video to be real. Peace

Dont you actually feel, as a person of reasonable intelligence would, that the mere fact that the Indian State is willing to allow mass gatherings and the protests to be covered on all major news and media channels, even apparently detrimental to Indian interests, that there is something fishy in Indian approach?

Unlike 1990s when we had banned access to media, we are quite open with all the protests and problems today, ever wondered why?

Sir I believe from one point of view he is correct and from another point of view you are also correct. If we go by all historical documents then your point of view is correct including non violent protests. However he is also correct in saying that decision for a land can be taken only collectively. At present only kashmiris are fighting for freedom(how many percent of native kashmiris are involved no one knows for sure), while Jammu region people, Laddakh people, AZK people, extreme North Kashmiris are also fighting for freedom from Indian government, right??? If not then where is the collective decision making in J&K people? It's way too complex now to be resolved when it comes to practicality. We all are stuck knowing no where to go while all people including innocents civilians on both side, terrorists, militants as well as army men on both side die for some disillusion of freedom. To hell with such freedom, I say it was collective greediness of both countries(and China) to spoil each other lives for just a piece of land while our mental peace remain at large. It is worse than the hell.

Yikes, are you guys even aware what @Joe Shearer is speaking about and what you all are assimilating and what you all are arguing against?

Let me point out few things before you carry on:

1. India and Pakistan were formed under Indian Independence Act of 1947.

2. J&K acceded to India vide Para 3(a) of said act. If Pakistanis challenge the accession, they may as well challenge the integration of Baluchistan, Sindh, Northern-Areas, Gilgit and NWFP .. indeed the basis of existence of Pakistan as a state.

3. When India was accepting the instrument of accession, India made plebiscite a condition for acceptance, there was no demand from Maharaja or the representative of the people in form of Sheikh Abdullah for a plebiscite.

4. The Princely states were allowed to give conditional accession, India accepted the conditions of accession which Maharaja gave, namely autonomy under Indian Union.

5. What that means, the Indian Constitution made the Union under Article 1 and inserted 1.1 wherein no Union has right to secede from the state in consonance with Para 3 (b) of Indian Independence Act of 1947.

6. Indian Constitution also affirmed its commitment to autonomy of the state as per its own acceptance of terms of accession as aforementioned in guise of passing a law - Article 370. These conditions were available to all princely states, who decided to waive them as per their wishes. So when Pakistan jumps on plebiscite, just ask them to first explain Baluchistan.

7. If you want to do away with a commitment to the state under Indian Constitution, the correct way for a Legal State like India is thorough the consensus of the people of the state - namely a bill being passed by J&K Assembly.

8. If you talk of unilateral withdrawal of the Article, you loose credibility of a legal state and become a banana republic.

9. Nagaland Accord is an example where in people who declared independence in 1947, were annexed by Indian state and now Modi himself signed the accord wherein autonomy has been granted within the Indian Union without boundary change. The same is also existing in J&K.

10. When ill informed and illogical posts like many members from India are posting here, spread, you give the initiative to the next door neighbour to actually justify the demand for a separate homeland which led to formation of Pakistan. That nation is still trying to justify to itself the validity especially after loosing Muslim majority Bangladesh, of its existence. By refusing to back down from our commitments as enshrined under Constitution of India, we uphold our own laws, and comprehensively reject the two nation theory. Its a bludy ideological war!

11. The Pakistanis have lost the diplomatic war over Kashmir. Analyse the support to them over Kashmir in 90s and today. But they instigate local protests and civil unrest. Militancy is way down. Armed forces rule supreme in LC environment save for one odd ingress due to topography and climatic conditions. There is hardly any presence of army inside valley in CI operations. All are in garrison/supply and tiered defence. CAPFs and J&K Police are the spearhead for any act of violence in valley proper - thereby showcasing the move away from an armed rebellion to a management of civil disorder and common criminality.

12. The narrative, my dear strategically-not-so-sound people, has been wrested away from Pakistan. We dictate the issue now.

13. Fighting a CI war is never about short term solutions. It takes time, give it 70 years (Naga issue took almost 69 years) maybe 100 ..... deal in a civil fashion now. Settle it amicably, with a moral stance rather than giving the neighbour a locus standii which it is itself trying to find.

14. And if you do a comparison of deaths in valley, it is still way less than Bihar and UP individually in terms of violent deaths. Because Indian media and people like you get charged up on misplaced nationalism, you loose the narrative and damage Indian position. It is a very sound tactic, you simply are still not matured to appreciate it. Ask the Pakistanis who curse their politicians on Kashmir issue and give example of Indian deftness and adroitness in diplomatic and political management at all international forums.

Thanks

@Moonlight: Certainly not any artillery firing. Sounds more like Type 90 grenade being burst in a barrel ..... it is only a practice grenade with no shrapnel .... lol
 
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A scapegoat to justify human rights violations by the indian state nothing more they did that in the past

Very well.. Then stop sending these “goats" across the LOC and India wouldn't be able to make them “scapegoats" to justify “human rights violations". Sounds a good idea...No?
 
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I've said this in an earlier post of mine, one if the earliest. Those Kashmiri not happy in India, should leave peacefully. To move to where they feel they would be happy. Relocate. Complete the last remaining mass move of partition.

But where I do not agree is open borders. And free movement. That is never going to be acceptable or workable. We are a long long way away from an Indian Schengen. If ever.
@Joe Shearer What is wrong here ? that you gave him negative rating

So does India consider Kashmir a parts of its own ?
 
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Dont you actually feel, as a person of reasonable intelligence would, that the mere fact that the Indian State is willing to allow mass gatherings and the protests to be covered on all major news and media channels, even apparently detrimental to Indian interests, that there is something fishy in Indian approach?

Unlike 1990s when we had banned access to media, we are quite open with all the protests and problems today, ever wondered why?



Yikes, are you guys even aware what @Joe Shearer is speaking about and what you all are assimilating and what you all are arguing against?

Let me point out few things before you carry on:

1. India and Pakistan were formed under Indian Independence Act of 1947.

2. J&K acceded to India vide Para 3(a) of said act. If Pakistanis challenge the accession, they may as well challenge the integration of Baluchistan, Sindh, Northern-Areas, Gilgit and NWFP .. indeed the basis of existence of Pakistan as a state.

3. When India was accepting the instrument of accession, India made plebiscite a condition for acceptance, there was no demand from Maharaja or the representative of the people in form of Sheikh Abdullah for a plebiscite.

4. The Princely states were allowed to give conditional accession, India accepted the conditions of accession which Maharaja gave, namely autonomy under Indian Union.

5. What that means, the Indian Constitution made the Union under Article 1 and inserted 1.1 wherein no Union has right to secede from the state in consonance with Para 3 (b) of Indian Independence Act of 1947.

6. Indian Constitution also affirmed its commitment to autonomy of the state as per its own acceptance of terms of accession as aforementioned in guise of passing a law - Article 370. These conditions were available to all princely states, who decided to waive them as per their wishes. So when Pakistan jumps on plebiscite, just ask them to first explain Baluchistan.

7. If you want to do away with a commitment to the state under Indian Constitution, the correct way for a Legal State like India is thorough the consensus of the people of the state - namely a bill being passed by J&K Assembly.

8. If you talk of unilateral withdrawal of the Article, you loose credibility of a legal state and become a banana republic.

9. Nagaland Accord is an example where in people who declared independence in 1947, were annexed by Indian state and now Modi himself signed the accord wherein autonomy has been granted within the Indian Union without boundary change. The same is also existing in J&K.

10. When ill informed and illogical posts like many members from India are posting here, spread, you give the initiative to the next door neighbour to actually justify the demand for a separate homeland which led to formation of Pakistan. That nation is still trying to justify to itself the validity especially after loosing Muslim majority Bangladesh, of its existence. By refusing to back down from our commitments as enshrined under Constitution of India, we uphold our own laws, and comprehensively reject the two nation theory. Its a bludy ideological war!

11. The Pakistanis have lost the diplomatic war over Kashmir. Analyse the support to them over Kashmir in 90s and today. But they instigate local protests and civil unrest. Militancy is way down. Armed forces rule supreme in LC environment save for one odd ingress due to topography and climatic conditions. There is hardly any presence of army inside valley in CI operations. All are in garrison/supply and tiered defence. CAPFs and J&K Police are the spearhead for any act of violence in valley proper - thereby showcasing the move away from an armed rebellion to a management of civil disorder and common criminality.

12. The narrative, my dear strategically-not-so-sound people, has been wrested away from Pakistan. We dictate the issue now.

13. Fighting a CI war is never about short term solutions. It takes time, give it 70 years (Naga issue took almost 69 years) maybe 100 ..... deal in a civil fashion now. Settle it amicably, with a moral stance rather than giving the neighbour a locus standii which it is itself trying to find.

14. And if you do a comparison of deaths in valley, it is still way less than Bihar and UP individually in terms of violent deaths. Because Indian media and people like you get charged up on misplaced nationalism, you loose the narrative and damage Indian position. It is a very sound tactic, you simply are still not matured to appreciate it. Ask the Pakistanis who curse their politicians on Kashmir issue and give example of Indian deftness and adroitness in diplomatic and political management at all international forums.

Thanks

@Moonlight: Certainly not any artillery firing. Sounds more like Type 90 grenade being burst in a barrel ..... it is only a practice grenade with no shrapnel .... lol

I don't know what point @RISING SUN was trying to make. There isn't any logic in it. I applaud your point #10; it sums up the whole issue. Your points #5 and #6 are a treat to read; I don't know yet who you are but am already a fan. I disagree, however, with #7. This is why.

If you read the terms of #370 carefully, it mentions that the President may abrogate this article, with the consent of the Constituent Assembly of Jammu and Kashmir. That Constituent Assembly was sui generis, unique of its kind, drawing its legality and power from the sovereign authority of the Maharaja, which was untramelled then except for his cession of the power to conduct defence, foreign affairs and communications to the Dominion of India, which is something that you have articulated very well several times. So it could not pass on its own powers to any other body, certainly not its own constitution-making or constitution-amending or constitution-ratifying powers. It could only frame a constitution, for acceptable by the Maharaja as the sovereign, which it did. It then took what Noorani describes as the 'quaint' step of dismissing itself, rather than the usual practice of adjourning sine die.

This means that without the Maharaja's invocation of such an assembly, it can never be reconvened.

The Maharaja accepted the Constitution of J&K in 1958. With that, he effectively extinguished his own sovereign powers and to the extent of the Constitution and its powers, that became the repository of the sovereignty other than the three ceded to the Union of India.

You have said that the Assembly might be a body that might agree to address #370. I am not so sure. It is not the Constituent Assembly, and the Indian Constitutional provision DID NOT mention any successor body. It is as if you are featured in a legal document, and the wording says, "hellfire", rather than "hellfire, which term shall include his heirs and assigns". That limited wording excludes your heirs and assigns. Similarly the limited wording of the Indian Article excludes any body other than the original Constituent Assembly of J&K from recommending abrogation. It can never be done.
 
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Let it be. My ignoring the old fart is more irritating than any inconsequential minus one. lol
TBH waving off pakistani flag is just to show symbol of resistance and to piss off Indians and nothing more. In reality If India beijing economic powerhouse can't offer them much, what can we offer them ? Nothing. They don't want to be part of either India or Pakistan. Just let them be and leave them alone
 
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@Joe Shearer What is wrong here ? that you gave him negative rating

So does India consider Kashmir a parts of its own ?

I believe that it is atrocious to suggest that a Kashmiri should move out, or be moved out of his own state for disagreeing without the use of force with some of the constitutional provisions, whether of the J&K Constitution or of the Indian Constitution, setting aside his right of free speech and freedom of expression.

Whether India considers Kashmir a part of its own is a different issue. He did not get a negative rating on that. Yes, India considers Kashmir a part of its own, (a) because of the accession by the sovereign power; (b) because of the acceptance of the accession by the acceded power; (c) because of the specific mention of this by the Constituent Assembly of J&K that drafted the J&K Constitution, and its inclusion of this in the Constitution that was approved by the Maharaja and forms the basis for the governance of that state.

The UN in its advisory capacity can only advise, it cannot limit the sovereign powers of a nation.
 
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TBH waving off pakistani flag is just to show symbol of resistance and to piss of Indians and nothing more. In reality If India beijing economic powerhouse can't offer them much, what can we offer them ? Nothing. They don't want to be part of either India or Pakistan. Just let them be and leave them alone

The sad part is one after another generations getting destroyed.

They are getting humped. And no one is going to do anything about it.

Because to be brutally honest. No one (who counts) wants to.
 
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TBH waving off pakistani flag is just to show symbol of resistance and to piss off Indians and nothing more. In reality If India beijing economic powerhouse can't offer them much, what can we offer them ? Nothing. They don't want to be part of either India or Pakistan. Just let them be and leave them alone

That is something different and has nothing to do with either the real issues involved, or what you asked about.
 
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That is something different and has nothing to do with either the real issues involved, or what you asked about.
I am sorry dont remember asking you that statement, anyway so your reply is totally uncalled for
 
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