Shelling in Baramulla Kashmir by India

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Dreaming about plebiscite, never gonna happen. Not till India again becomes the part of gondwana land.

Where does it say i'm dreaming about a plebiscite?

 

[Pandora]

We can only drill in the facts, and I mean 'drill'. I agree, reason doesn't work. I didn't mean remove your comment, but don't lose your temper with people like this. It demeans us. I lost my temper and am furious with myself.

Well apart from my temper blast my main question to him was if some people around his house tell him we dont want you around because we dont like you then will he leave his house? What kind of person says if you dont like then scram or die. I am not talking about mentality of all indians but many i have talked to have similar opinion of the situation in Kashmir. From the looks of it Indian government is pursuing the same policy but it is simply not working this time around. I can care less if Kashmir was with Pakistan or India but at least basic human rights should not be violated for sake of few political interests.

 

[Tamilnadu]

only solution is to convert LOC into permanent border and if some want to move from Indian side to the other side allow them and both countries should help them to start a new life.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well apart from my temper blast my main question to him was if some people around his house tell him we dont want you around because we dont like you then will he leave his house? What kind of person says if you dont like then scram or die. I am not talking about mentality of all indians but many i have talked to have similar opinion of the situation in Kashmir. From the looks of it Indian government is pursuing the same policy but it is simply not working this time around. I can care less if Kashmir was with Pakistan or India but at least basic human rights should not be violated for sake of few political interests.

Hang on. Let's take it one step at a time. I understand your anger; been there, done that, got called a traitor to my country for my pains.

There is a trend now, lately, for the right-wingers to say this kind of utterly stupid thing: if you don't like what's going on, why don't you go to Pakistan? As if a Muslim Indian can't question what's going on; what would those schmucks have said to a caste Hindu asking the same difficult questions? They change their angle of attack, so to speak, to misuse a technical term, and accuse the dissentient of being a Commie; never a Communist, the abuse of choice is Commie. For Dalits, the standard (and fiscally untrue) answer is, you are getting a subsidised education out of the taxes that I pay, so shut up and concentrate on learning and studies, don't you dare ask political questions.

That is a trend for any dissent expressed by any Muslim anywhere, or any other, including Christians, caste Hindus seen to be in the wrong camp or Dalits.

Coming to Kashmir, it's complex. But for this discussion and for the present exchange of posts, let me remind you that Kashmir has been jerked around by a fuddled political class, who to this date don't know what to do, even when meaning well, and by the indifferent bureaucrats who couldn't care less about the citizens of India but just want to get to their full retirement age and get their creature comforts. Any people dying along the way they classify as road kill.

On specifics, since they are largely illiterate buffoons, the right wing thinks that the answer is to 'open up' Kashmir, allow Indian citizens the same rights they have everywhere else in India, and drag Kashmir and the Kashmiris kicking and screaming into the main stream.

The sad part is that they probably mean well (most of their vocabulary is so hate-filled, one can't make out when they are genuinely emotionally engaged and angered, and when they are channeling George S. Patton).

There are a thousand things wrong with their stance, but as you said a post or two earlier, no point in reasoning with them. The shortest way to shut them up is

1. Tell them that the Kashmir Constitution does not allow land to be sold to outsiders, and it has nothing to do with 370;
2. Tell them that this is not unique to Kashmir, but that the same rule is applied to Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, and Arunachal, to my certain knowledge, perhaps one or two more.

Honestly spending more effort than this, except for fact-obsessed pedants like me, is not worth it.

 

[John Reese]

Hang on. Let's take it one step at a time. I understand your anger; been there, done that, got called a traitor to my country for my pains.

There is a trend now, lately, for the right-wingers to say this kind of utterly stupid thing: if you don't like what's going on, why don't you go to Pakistan? As if a Muslim Indian can't question what's going on; what would those schmucks have said to a caste Hindu asking the same difficult questions? They change their angle of attack, so to speak, to misuse a technical term, and accuse the dissentient of being a Commie; never a Communist, the abuse of choice is Commie. For Dalits, the standard (and fiscally untrue) answer is, you are getting a subsidised education out of the taxes that I pay, so shut up and concentrate on learning and studies, don't you dare ask political questions.

That is a trend for any dissent expressed by any Muslim anywhere, or any other, including Christians, caste Hindus seen to be in the wrong camp or Dalits.

Coming to Kashmir, it's complex. But for this discussion and for the present exchange of posts, let me remind you that Kashmir has been jerked around by a fuddled political class, who to this date don't know what to do, even when meaning well, and by the indifferent bureaucrats who couldn't care less about the citizens of India but just want to get to their full retirement age and get their creature comforts. Any people dying along the way they classify as road kill.

On specifics, since they are largely illiterate buffoons, the right wing thinks that the answer is to 'open up' Kashmir, allow Indian citizens the same rights they have everywhere else in India, and drag Kashmir and the Kashmiris kicking and screaming into the main stream.

The sad part is that they probably mean well (most of their vocabulary is so hate-filled, one can't make out when they are genuinely emotionally engaged and angered, and when they are channeling George S. Patton).

There are a thousand things wrong with their stance, but as you said a post or two earlier, no point in reasoning with them. The shortest way to shut them up is

1. Tell them that the Kashmir Constitution does not allow land to be sold to outsiders, and it has nothing to do with 370;
2. Tell them that this is not unique to Kashmir, but that the same rule is applied to Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, and Arunachal, to my certain knowledge, perhaps one or two more.

Honestly spending more effort than this, except for fact-obsessed pedants like me, is not worth it.

370 is not permanent it can be amended by Parliament and both by J&K Govt

Best way to amended it by unity of national party
Alliance Congress + BJP +CPI in J&K
But they will never due to there politics




As uttrakand and himachal logic
Wrong by facts or I don't know what analogy you applied

Here if land topic

I own property in shimla ,solan
Haldwani UK

Iam hailed from UP

 

[Hell hound]

time to end this mess it has cost us billions, thousands of deaths,3 wars and much more.
no more pls end this GOP and GOI

 

[Joe Shearer]

370 is not permanent it can be amended

It cannot be amended.

As uttrakand and himachal logic
Wrong by facts or I don't know what analogy you applied

Unless you are born in those states, you cannot buy land.

Here if land topic

I own property in shimla ,solan
Haldwani UK

Iam hailed from UP

You can hail from anywhere. You have to be eligible according to the local laws. There are no exceptions.

 

[John Reese]

It cannot be amended.



Unless you are born in those states, you cannot buy land.



You can hail from anywhere. You have to be eligible according to the local laws. There are no exceptions.

But own property should show you papers now
I never heard any thing like before
What you said

Many people in delhi own property
In himachal and UK

I don't get it there really a law like this
Quote me which Article

 

[Tamilnadu]

It cannot be amended.
Unless you are born in those states, you cannot buy land.

You can hail from anywhere. You have to be eligible according to the local laws. There are no exceptions.

Can the people born in those states buy land in other states.

 

[Joe Shearer]

But own property should show you papers now
I never heard any thing like before
What you said

Many people in delhi own property
In himachal and UK

I don't get it there really a law like this
Quote me which Article

I don't need to. Look it up yourself or remain in denial. Only apartment buildings can be sold, and another subterfuge is 99 year leases. Otherwise there is no exception.

I really don't have time to do your homework for you.

Can the people born in those states buy land in other states.

Yes.

Unfair, isn't it?

 

[adil_minhas]

time to end this mess it has cost us billions, thousands of deaths,3 wars and much more.
no more pls end this GOP and GOI

There is nothing to end brother. We hold Kashmir. You want Kashmir.

The onus is on the one who wants to change the status quo.

 

[John Reese]

I don't need to. Look it up yourself or remain in denial. Only apartment buildings can be sold, and another subterfuge is 99 year leases. Otherwise there is no exception.

I really don't have time to do your homework for you.

You are talking about 1972
Himachal Govt land reform amendment it only applicable on agricultural land not properties

But that is not permanent since

It not has Constitutionally validity of
Like

Article 370 which constitutional law


. A non-Himachali cannot buy agricultural land. Since the economy of the state is agricultural/ horticultural driven, Himachal Pradesh has certain provisions under which non-Himachal residents and non-Himachal agriculturists cannot buy agricultural land in Himachal.

Outsiders can however buy land that is not being used for any agricultural purpose. However to buy land they would first require a prior permission from the State Government.

3. Non-Himachali’s do not require any special permission to buy or lease constructed property, flat, etc. Anyone who is a citizen of India can freely buy any constructed property in the state. Having said that, one can buy or acquire the property only in urban areas and not in rural or agricultural areas

There various way you by land in HP

Read
http://www.mybarkat.com/buy-sell-consult/procedure-for-non-himachali-buying-property-in-himachal/

 

[Joe Shearer]

You are talking about 1972
Himachal Govt land reform amendment it only applicable on agricultural land not properties

But that is not permanent since

It not has Constitutionally validity of
Like

Article 370 which constitutional law


. A non-Himachali cannot buy agricultural land. Since the economy of the state is agricultural/ horticultural driven, Himachal Pradesh has certain provisions under which non-Himachal residents and non-Himachal agriculturists cannot buy agricultural land in Himachal.

Outsiders can however buy land that is not being used for any agricultural purpose. However to buy land they would first require a prior permission from the State Government.


There various way you by land in HP

Read
http://www.mybarkat.com/buy-sell-consult/procedure-for-non-himachali-buying-property-in-himachal/

All that is contained in my previous answer, if you had the wits to understand it.

 

[RISING SUN]

This level is exactly what you people deserve and likes of you make me sick to stomach. Looks at your own comment then define low.

Post reported. @waz, @Oscar sir please check the uncivil language in this thread please.

This level is exactly what you people deserve and likes of you make me sick to stomach. Looks at your own comment then define low.

Post reported. @waz, @Oscar sir please check the language in this thread

The UN has failed to do anything; they are irrelevant in this issue.

Even so; it seems Pakistan would easily win.

Here are the populations of each regions;
India
Kashmir Valley: 6 million
Jammu: 5 million
Pakistan
Azad Kashmir: 5 million
Gilgit-Baltistan: 2 million

The plebiscite would be determined by religion mostly. Most Muslims will either opt to join Pakistan or Independence - while most Hindus would opt to join India.

Kashmir Valley would be divided on whether to join Pakistan or become an independant state; most will go for independance but a significant minority will support Pakistan.

Jammu is a Hindu majority region and the inhabitants will mostly support India; but it also has a 30% Muslim population who would either go for independence or join Pakistan.

The people of Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan are rock hard loyalists and will definitely root for Pakistan; however there will be a small minority of people going for independance.

Under these factors; Pakistan will most likely win the plebiscite but with a small margin.

My personal belief is that Kashmir should cede to Pakistan while Jammu and Ladakh to remain in India.


Agreed ; violence should not be an option.

People resort to violence when they feel their demands are not being met; it's of a way of gaining recognition and more attention for the demands.

I doubt the violence will end until both Pakistan and India resolve this diplomatically.

Leh and Laddakh region is ignored in this thread which is again Dharmic religion majority. Ultimately it will be four angle struggle between India, Pakistan, China and native people of J&K. There way too much difference among natives of J&K people themselves due to which independence is not sustainable being difference in not only cultural but extreme religiousness. Thank you.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Post reported. @waz, @Oscar sir please check the uncivil language in this thread please.


Post reported. @waz, @Oscar sir please check the language in this thread

Leh and Laddakh region is ignored in this thread which is again Dharmic religion majority. Ultimately it will be four angle struggle between India, Pakistan, China and native people of J&K. There way too much difference among natives of J&K people themselves due to which independence is not sustainable being difference in not only cultural but extreme religiousness. Thank you.

Ladakh was ignored because it only had a population of around 3-4 Lakh; even then it has a 46% Muslim population.

Also; India's portion of Jammu and Kashmir is much closer to Pakistan (both culturally and religiously) than it is to India.

I have plenty of relatives in India's J&K.