Secularism is not against Islam

[EagleEyes]

I will appreciate, if that can be avoided in the future.

Dont forget even though the site is fair, i will not let the name be degraded.

As far as you want to know about the convertion, somebody else will help you with it.

Thank you.

 

[Adux]

Webby,

I dont think I have degraded anyone, Yes i was harsh, Anyways I have found the answers for the questions myself, Google is definitly God.

 

[EagleEyes]

And i am a google killer.

 

[[R]e[b]e[L]]

Who is intolerent in the world, everybody knows. So keep dreaming and play the victim card
Kissing in public is not ok with you nor hindu's does that mean it should be stopped, cuz chrisitians are ok with it. Practice your religion at home, Sharia law is from Islam, therfore it will never be accepted by people of other faiths. Who are you to decide what is decent or not, IF you dont like it, Dont look at it and go on your way

Yupp i know who is intolerant and who is tolerant thank you! Im sure you also know deep down aswell! So keep dreaming and playing the victim card! Kissing in public is unacceptable in Islam for a reason. This is to safe guard ones honour, dignity and protect children from seeing other peoples intimate relationships. Im very sure you wouldnt like it if a couple were snogging infront of you and your family. If you dont care, then quite frankly you lack morals and have a loose grip on your children! Islam isnt just about worshipping God, its whole way of life aswell. And i think its time other useless laws get shoved aside and the goodness brought back into society whether people like you like it or not! If you dont like it, then dont look at it and go on your way! Keep your athiest thoughts in your house, like you expect others to keep thier faith in thier house!

 

[TomCat111]

Wonder why [R]ee[L]'s latest perfectly decent reply is whisked away. Looks like only Indians hold the right to make a mockery of others’ religions in these forums. God forbid if anyone beside Indians defend their faith.

 

[Contrarian]

No one is making a mockery of others religion in this forum. A certain level of decency is being maintained.

 

[TomCat111]

No one is making a mockery of others religion in this forum. A certain level of decency is being maintained.

I am sorry. What was I thinking? I should have known, that certain level of decency is being maintained by likes of Adux by attacking the principles of Islam.

 

[Contrarian]

The debate got heated, somethings were said, and it got cooled off. Thats how it works, Islam is well regarded as a religion, and it is expected neither side will attack the other.

 

[A.Rahman]

Wonder why [R]ee[L]'s latest perfectly decent reply is whisked away. Looks like only Indians hold the right to make a mockery of others’ religions in these forums. God forbid if anyone beside Indians defend their faith.

Which reply are you referring to?.

https://defence.pk/forums/showthread.php?t=4059

 

[Awesome]

Yupp i know who is intolerant and who is tolerant thank you! Im sure you also know deep down aswell! So keep dreaming and playing the victim card! Kissing in public is unacceptable in Islam for a reason. This is to safe guard ones honour, dignity and protect children from seeing other peoples intimate relationships. Im very sure you wouldnt like it if a couple were snogging infront of you and your family. If you dont care, then quite frankly you lack morals and have a loose grip on your children! Islam isnt just about worshipping God, its whole way of life aswell. And i think its time other useless laws get shoved aside and the goodness brought back into society whether people like you like it or not! If you dont like it, then dont look at it and go on your way! Keep your athiest thoughts in your house, like you expect others to keep thier faith in thier house!

Secularism in governance is not about being atheist. It's just not governing by any religion. Every religion has claimed to be a way of life, but our country is not just for Muslims. We have a minority that numbers in the millions. We'd be sidelining so many Pakistanis by adopting an Islamic government.

What we need are just laws and justice won't be against Islam, either.

 

[niaz]

Secularism in governance is not about being atheist. It's just not governing by any religion. Every religion has claimed to be a way of life, but our country is not just for Muslims. We have a minority that numbers in the millions. We'd be sidelining so many Pakistanis by adopting an Islamic government.

What we need are just laws and justice won't be against Islam, either.

Couldnt agree with you more. This topic has been discussed to nth degree in various forums and in public debates on TV. Main problem is that religious parties have portaryed secularism as having 'No religion' . This has caused general polity in Pakistan to think that a secular state would imply having no moral values and things such as kissing in public and sex outside marriage will be comon place. This is a totally false impression. Sexual freedom and moral turpitude has nothing to do with secular or non secular system. For example kissing in Public was a culpable offence in Spain under Gen Franco in the sixties. Spain is still a Catholic State but it is an offence no longer.

On the other hand in an Islamic Pakistan; we see gang raping sister of someone accused of having illicit relations with another women. One can understand even killing of couple involved, but why the decision by very respectable and religious people to sanction gang rape of an innocent victim.
Can one infer from such instances ( regretably not uncommon) that Islam promotes this behaviour ??? Of course not.

My point is that moral values are soceity based and often due to exploitation of the weak by the powerful, nothing to do with secularism or religion. ( Btw
parading naked and gang rape as a form of revenge is quite common in India as well, as portaryed in the movie about Phoollen Devi)

Once you make an official religion of the State; such as UK ( Church of England) you discriminate against people of other sects or religion. Monarch of England cannot be Catholic or of any other faith excpt that of C of E. Any one born oustide wedlock cannot get a Commission in the Royal Forces. A secular state will not forbid practice of any faith nor would it bar any one from holding any office on account his/her beliefs.Secularism neither promotes nor forbids any moral values.

Pray tell me how is secularism against Islam?? Trend in the European Soceities is to do whatever one desires as long as it doesnot concern others. Thats why you even have same sex marriages. This has no realtionship to 'Secularism'. For example UK is not a secular state but same sex marriages have social sanction.

I am personally against Pakistan declared a secular state because it goes against "Raison D'etre' of why Pakistan was created in first place. However, since this thread is a debate about secularism, I maintain that seclarism is not against Islam or any other religion for that matter.

 

[Adux]

Secularism in governance is not about being atheist. It's just not governing by any religion. Every religion has claimed to be a way of life, but our country is not just for Muslims. We have a minority that numbers in the millions. We'd be sidelining so many Pakistanis by adopting an Islamic government.

What we need are just laws and justice won't be against Islam, either.

One of your best post ever

 

[Adux]

Couldnt agree with you more. This topic has been discussed to nth degree in various forums and in public debates on TV. Main problem is that religious parties have portaryed secularism as having 'No religion' . This has caused general polity in Pakistan to think that a secular state would imply having no moral values and things such as kissing in public and sex outside marriage will be comon place. This is a totally false impression. Sexual freedom and moral turpitude has nothing to do with secular or non secular system. For example kissing in Public was a culpable offence in Spain under Gen Franco in the sixties. Spain is still a Catholic State but it is an offence no longer.

On the other hand in an Islamic Pakistan; we see gang raping sister of someone accused of having illicit relations with another women. One can understand even killing of couple involved, but why the decision by very respectable and religious people to sanction gang rape of an innocent victim.
Can one infer from such instances ( regretably not uncommon) that Islam promotes this behaviour ??? Of course not.

My point is that moral values are soceity based and often due to exploitation of the weak by the powerful, nothing to do with secularism or religion. ( Btw
parading naked and gang rape as a form of revenge is quite common in India as well, as portaryed in the movie about Phoollen Devi)

Once you make an official religion of the State; such as UK ( Church of England) you discriminate against people of other sects or religion. Monarch of England cannot be Catholic or of any other faith excpt that of C of E. Any one born oustide wedlock cannot get a Commission in the Royal Forces. A secular state will not forbid practice of any faith nor would it bar any one from holding any office on account his/her beliefs.Secularism neither promotes nor forbids any moral values.

Pray tell me how is secularism against Islam?? Trend in the European Soceities is to do whatever one desires as long as it doesnot concern others. Thats why you even have same sex marriages. This has no realtionship to 'Secularism'. For example UK is not a secular state but same sex marriages have social sanction.

I am personally against Pakistan declared a secular state because it goes against "Raison D'etre' of why Pakistan was created in first place. However, since this thread is a debate about secularism, I maintain that seclarism is not against Islam or any other religion for that matter.

Wish I coul articulate in such a way, Dear Sir, India is not a complelty a democratic nor a secular state, Political votebanks have made sure of that, The Laws are there; but sadly no implementation

 

[Neo]

Couldnt agree with you more. This topic has been discussed to nth degree in various forums and in public debates on TV. Main problem is that religious parties have portaryed secularism as having 'No religion' . This has caused general polity in Pakistan to think that a secular state would imply having no moral values and things such as kissing in public and sex outside marriage will be comon place. This is a totally false impression. Sexual freedom and moral turpitude has nothing to do with secular or non secular system. For example kissing in Public was a culpable offence in Spain under Gen Franco in the sixties. Spain is still a Catholic State but it is an offence no longer.

On the other hand in an Islamic Pakistan; we see gang raping sister of someone accused of having illicit relations with another women. One can understand even killing of couple involved, but why the decision by very respectable and religious people to sanction gang rape of an innocent victim.
Can one infer from such instances ( regretably not uncommon) that Islam promotes this behaviour ??? Of course not.

My point is that moral values are soceity based and often due to exploitation of the weak by the powerful, nothing to do with secularism or religion. ( Btw
parading naked and gang rape as a form of revenge is quite common in India as well, as portaryed in the movie about Phoollen Devi)

Once you make an official religion of the State; such as UK ( Church of England) you discriminate against people of other sects or religion. Monarch of England cannot be Catholic or of any other faith excpt that of C of E. Any one born oustide wedlock cannot get a Commission in the Royal Forces. A secular state will not forbid practice of any faith nor would it bar any one from holding any office on account his/her beliefs.Secularism neither promotes nor forbids any moral values.

Pray tell me how is secularism against Islam?? Trend in the European Soceities is to do whatever one desires as long as it doesnot concern others. Thats why you even have same sex marriages. This has no realtionship to 'Secularism'. For example UK is not a secular state but same sex marriages have social sanction.

I am personally against Pakistan declared a secular state because it goes against "Raison D'etre' of why Pakistan was created in first place. However, since this thread is a debate about secularism, I maintain that seclarism is not against Islam or any other religion for that matter.

Excellent post Sir Niaz!
I salute you! :army:

 

[Neo]

Secularism in governance is not about being atheist. It's just not governing by any religion. Every religion has claimed to be a way of life, but our country is not just for Muslims. We have a minority that numbers in the millions. We'd be sidelining so many Pakistanis by adopting an Islamic government.

What we need are just laws and justice won't be against Islam, either.

Well said Asim! I couldn't have said it better. :thumbsup: