Secularism is not against Islam

[PakSniper]

First and foremost there is there is no concept of Hindu religion. As with other religion there are founders and holy books. Hinduism doesnot have any.

Um, now this is confusing, then what are those rig veda books? Ain't those the books of Hinduism and explain it's teachings? Now I'm really confused or is it some accept the books and some don't?

It is a effect of how the society was structured. Brahmins were a group of people who has the job of getting education and providing them. Just like in a company different set of people do different jobs.

Since they were most educated during the times of Kings,they were regularly consulted. This gave them access to when the power lies. Similar to mullahs having access to courts of Muslims emperors as Mullahs were considered the experts in religious and social issues.
And since power corrupts,they tried to introduced monopoly over who gets the knowledge.
This what use to happen.Now since any one has the right for education, it invariably means they dont have monopoly and hence no power.
And for some reasons Pakistanis hate Hindus with a weird reasons that Brahmins dictate and oppress people. Strange.

By the way they get the respect what they deserve.Nothing more nothing less. They dont dictate how society should run.

I will take this at face value.

 

[Contrarian]

lol, and Brahmins dont get to issue any fatwa sort of things, that others have to follow. They dont have the slightest power. Everything runs as it should be.

 

[A.Rahman]

lol, and Brahmins dont get to issue any fatwa sort of things, that others have to follow. They dont have the slightest power. Everything runs as it should be.

A fatwa is nothing more than an opinion

 

[Contrarian]

Huh? Isnt is more like a declaration that should be followed. Dont most muslims follow fatwas?

 

[con]

Um, now this is confusing, then what are those rig veda books? Ain't those the books of Hinduism and explain it's teachings? Now I'm really confused or is it some accept the books and some don't?

I am not sure you can call those books as the one which define hinduism. 99% of the Hindus have never even read these books.Forget reading ,majority of them dont even know what is the names of the 4 book of vedas.

These books are generally read by Brahmin priest who perform rituals. Since these rituals are done in Sanskirt most of Hindus can't even understanding what are these priest blabbering.

The most funniest part of all these is most of the kids would have learnt about Hindu Mythology from comic books/tv serials. Believe me, Hindu Mythology is a big time entertainment business in India. Note it is "Myth"ology.

Since there is no "reference for restriction in pratice",Hindus apparently can worship whomever/whatever they feel like. Hence Hinduism ended up with 340 million god and godess.

What do we do with so many god and godess? Make comic books

 

[niaz]

I am not sure you can call those books as the one which define hinduism. 99% of the Hindus have never even read these books.Forget reading ,majority of them dont even know what is the names of the 4 book of vedas.

These books are generally read by Brahmin priest who perform rituals. Since these rituals are done in Sanskirt most of Hindus can't even understanding what are these priest blabbering.

The most funniest part of all these is most of the kids would have learnt about Hindu Mythology from comic books/tv serials. Believe me, Hindu Mythology is a big time entertainment business in India. Note it is "Myth"ology.

Since there is no "reference for restriction in pratice",Hindus apparently can worship whomever/whatever they feel like. Hence Hinduism ended up with 340 million god and godess.

What do we do with so many god and godess? Make comic books

I am a muslim but I know the names of the 4 Vedas ( Rig Ved, Athraved, Sama Ved and Yajur Ved). In my opinion real basis of the Hinduism is not the Vedas but the Upanishads. One of the reasons for so many Gods is that Aryan priests absorbed many local Indian dieties into the pantheon and devised explanations as different incarantions of the same diety.

I for one will not criticise either the number of gods or the mythology. History is my passion and I read any thing I can lay my hands on. Rig ved is one of the oldest of the books. Even though I find it is really a story of the Aryan conquest of India. Hinduism is a religion of a very large number of human beings and if it is okay with them, it is okay with me.

 

[Adux]

I am a muslim but I know the names of the 4 Vedas ( Rig Ved, Athraved, Sama Ved and Yajur Ved). In my opinion real basis of the Hinduism is not the Vedas but the Upanishads. One of the reasons for so many Gods is that Aryan priests absorbed many local Indian dieties into the pantheon and devised explanations as different incarantions of the same diety.

I for one will not criticise either the number of gods or the mythology. History is my passion and I read any thing I can lay my hands on. Rig ved is one of the oldest of the books. Even though I find it is really a story of the Aryan conquest of India. Hinduism is a religion of a very large number of human beings and if it is okay with them, it is okay with me.

I am happy that you stand out of the lot, Knowledge and self-introspection on one's belief, gets you real close to humans which in turn gets you closer to god. Doesnt it sir.
Its like saying Understanding something by the letter is different to something by its spirit

I only knew about one veda : rig, never read it, never seen it

 

[Contrarian]

I'v known the names before, taught at school, but only remembered 2. It is really sad. I should be better than this .

 

[con]

.

. Rig ved is one of the oldest of the books. Even though I find it is really a story of the Aryan conquest of India.

Yeah most of the books related with Hinduism is made up stories. They give examples for scenarios a human might face.
Hence that's why I said these stories make for great comics and TV serials....with lot of actions

 

[Awesome]

There are western theories that seem to suggest that most of the Hindu Gods and stories are the experiences of ancient Indians with Aliens from outer space.

Read up on the Ancient Astronaut theory. They suggest that the mythical flying objects is just how the Indians perceived and they translated it into imagery of flying chariots, etc.

Similar experiences are shared by pagans from Egypt.

 

[Adux]

I have heard that about the Aztec's; even seen a Transformers Cartoon on it when i was a kid. But I believe it is quite possible that People over-glorified stories about Kings and characters and make these stories interesting, The moral value of the stories are taken as teachings

 

[Neo]

Islam and secularism

By Dr. S. Saeed Ahmed

ONE finds a raging debate about which polity Pakistan should adopt — secular or religious – taking place in the print and electronic media off and on. The exponents of either viewpoint give forceful arguments and precedents from history to support their contentions. But on giving deep thought to this discussion, it becomes evident that there is no clash between the two.

Secularism should not be termed non-religious polity. It only means that in the functioning of the state, religious scholars, clergy or saints should not play any role. Their role is to educate the Ummah and to work for transforming the individuals from illiteracy, ignorance, immorality, extremism, terrorism, conservatism into civilized, enlightened, peace-loving and God fearing human beings. If the Ummah is educated and enlightened, those at the helm of affairs would automatically rise from the same dignified people. Thus, society would progress because of justice, morality and rule of law.

For ascertaining the type of government we should have, we should look towards the Holy Prophet (PBUH) because the Quran says: “Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) (33-21)”

The Holy Prophet was the last and ultimate in the series of the prophets. His main objective, as enunciated by the Holy Quran in an unequivocal terms, is that “it is He who has sent amongst the unlettered a Messenger from among themselves to rehearse to them his signs, to sanctify them and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom” (32:2). The Prophet spent thirteen years in Makkah and then ten years in Madinah after attaining prophethood to preach only spiritual value of Islam. He put in maximum efforts to enforce good and to forbid evil.

All the mandatory ‘Ibadat’ i.e. prayers, Hajj & fasting lead to spiritual growth. These are not to be enforced coercively but through love and example. If done otherwise they lose their moral value. ‘Jihad’ is also fight against personal evils, selfishness and egoism.

The Holy Quran is full of emphasis on acquiring knowledge. The very first word in the first revelation in the cave of Hira is ‘Read.’ The special prayer taught to the Holy Prophet is “O Lord, advance me in knowledge” (20-11-114). The Quran has scores of such phrases as wisdom, knowledge, reflection and understanding. In “Surah Zunar”, the Quran says “Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know?” (39-9) There are a number of traditions of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) which point to the extreme importance of knowledge. One is referring only two of his Ahadith on this topic:

“Acquire knowledge from cradle to grave”

“He who leaves his home in search of knowledge walks in the path of Allah till he returns”

There is no concrete evidence in the Quran or in the Sunnah which leads us to understand that the Prophet (PBUH) ever made conscious effort to acquire political power. He migrated to Yathrib not to found any Islamic state. He went there to protect himself and his Companions from the excessive persecution from Makkans and to spread the word of Allah among receptive Yathribites. The agreement, known as “Meethaq-e-Madinah” signed by different tribes and communities viz. Jews, Muslims and Pagans was not a government document but an arrangement for peaceful and harmonious coexistence among the communities.

According to its terms, all the communities were to enjoy equal rights including full freedom of religion. They were also to jointly work for the protection of Madinah from external foes. They were signified as members of a single community. This was the natural outcome of the Quranic Declaration about the Holy Prophet (PBUH) which says that “O men! I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah” (7-158).

One does not find any Hadith in which the Prophet had declared that he had been sent to establish an Islamic state headed by himself. He was “Rahmat-ul-lil-Alamin”, Mercy for the worlds and not the ruler. He did not bring any political system. In Madinah, he did not announce any Islamic state headed by himself. He was the messenger of Allah from the beginning to the end and for the eternity.

The Quran does not specify any political system to be adopted by the faithful. It only recommends mutual consultations on all matters of public interest. This is also the reason why the Prophet did not specifically nominate his successor. After his passing away to the eternal abode, he was succeeded by four of his blessed companions.

They are known as the guided caliphs. Everybody knows that each one of them rose to the high podium through different methods. The first one by consensus, the second one by nomination, the third one by consultation and the fourth one by overwhelming support.

Although these caliphs were pious companions and directly educated and disciplined by the Holy Prophet, dissensions cropped up in the Ummah which led to its fragmentation. It was so because they were supposed to be the heads of the Islamic state enjoying political power although they had designated themselves, as “Amir-ul-Momineen” i.e. the Head of the faithful and not the rulers.

On the contrary, those pious companions who remained aloof from the administration like Hazrat Bilal, Hazrat Abuzar, Hazrat Owais Qarni and thousand others commanded universal respect. History bears testimony to the fact that there continued shedding of the blood in the power struggle in the Muslim Ummah as our philosopher poet Allama Iqbal has depicted in his poems. Islam reached the nook and corner of the world not by swords of the warriors and autocratic rulers but by the ‘Sufis’, saints and the non-political ulema and scholars. The latter spoke the language of love and brotherhood. Had the rulers played any part in the propagation of Islam, the whole of the subcontinent or Spain would have embraced this last religion in their hundreds of years’ rule.

Pakistan came into being on the basis of the two-nation theory. It was a slogan to unite a piece of land in the subcontinent to protect the Muslims from the oppressive attitude of the majority. It was also intended that the Muslims would be able to observe their religious obligations without any hindrance or fear. This slogan touched the cords of emotions of the Muslims. They whole-heartedly supported the demand without thinking that it would not be established in the province where Muslims are in minority.

However, under the leadership of the Quaid-i-Azam and the banner of the Muslim League, Pakistan emerged on the map of the world. The Quaid-i-Azam at the very outset declared on August 11, 1947, that the raison d’etre of this new country is that there would be no distinction in this free land on the basis of religion, caste or ethnicity. This was absolutely necessary because if a member of the minority community ever thinks that he/she is being looked down upon, his loyalty to the state would weaken at that very moment.

We feel very proud to think that our country is Islamic, our capital is Islamabad and that head of our state is a Muslim. But how far our deeds are Islamic. Islam has been sustained for countries by inner will of the Muslims and their spiritual force. It certainly makes no sense to assert that Islam and political power go together. The ulema and the scholars should stay away from the notion of capturing power. When they make mistakes as human beings, Islam is cursed. The Holy Prophet had once said that the ulema and religious scholars of His Ummah were like prophets of Bani-Israel. They should act in a prophetic manner and strive for the spiritual uplift of the Ummah.

To conclude, one would like to quote from an interview of Sayyid Hussain Khameini, grandson of the late Imam Ayatullah Khomeini in favour of secularism. In this interview published in International Herald Tribune on August 11, 2003, he observed: “If we separate religion from the state, that would be the end of despotism and it would liberate religion as well as human being. The Islamic religion has been hijacked for 14 centuries by heads of the state.”

http://www.dawn.com/2007/04/14/ed.htm#4

 

[ghazi]

Religion is unnecessary evil!
There is no god, no devil. Only good & evil.
Nobody has ever seen god, last person supposedly heard from god was 1400 years ago. Anybody talking to god nowadays is declared insane or tried for blasphemy. If there was a real god there won't be any misery, poverty & suffering. Take for example in recent Tsunami & earthquake the majority of victims were young children, what sins had they commited? Why are we so afraid to critically analyse god or religion? Why is religion no go for science or evidence?
We should believe in democracy & secularismwhere soverignity belongs to people and not to god as in theocracy.
Religion & god should a private matter of belief , should be kept in heart & home, and not brought in the street, to the neghbor or in the government .

 

[con]

Religion is unnecessary evil!
There is no god, no devil. Only good & evil.
Nobody has ever seen god, last person supposedly heard from god was 1400 years ago. Anybody talking to god nowadays is declared insane or tried for blasphemy. If there was a real god there won't be any misery, poverty & suffering. Take for example in recent Tsunami & earthquake the majority of victims were young children, what sins had they commited? Why are we so afraid to critically analyse god or religion? Why is religion no go for science or evidence?
We should believe in democracy & secularismwhere soverignity belongs to people and not to god as in theocracy.
Religion & god should a private matter of belief , should be kept in heart & home, and not brought in the street, to the neghbor or in the government .

Mate what the world doesnot lack in presence of God,but humans who are yet to use the most precious thing that God gifted them. Brains!

Although world would be a great place if people have good thoughts like you have described, the level of stupidity in humans unfortunately ..... will never change!

 

[alamgir]

Religion is unnecessary evil!
There is no god, no devil. Only good & evil.
Nobody has ever seen god, last person supposedly heard from god was 1400 years ago. Anybody talking to god nowadays is declared insane or tried for blasphemy. If there was a real god there won't be any misery, poverty & suffering. Take for example in recent Tsunami & earthquake the majority of victims were young children, what sins had they commited? Why are we so afraid to critically analyse god or religion? Why is religion no go for science or evidence?
We should believe in democracy & secularismwhere soverignity belongs to people and not to god as in theocracy.
Religion & god should a private matter of belief , should be kept in heart & home, and not brought in the street, to the neghbor or in the government .

World-Famous Atheist Convinced by Science That God Exists

By Denyse O’Leary **
April 19, 2005



The 81-year-old philosopher acknowledged the existence of God after a lifetime of atheism

An eminent British philosopher—a key champion of atheism for more than fifty years—announced late last year that he has come to believe that there really is a God, on account of the intelligent design of the universe and life forms.

Antony Flew, who became an atheist at 15, debated at Oxford in the 1950s. He promoted atheism through prestigious works such as his landmark 1984 book, The Presumption of Atheism.

His thesis was disarmingly simple: Most people assume that God exists, and therefore that the atheist must prove otherwise. Flew reversed the onus. He claimed that there is no evidence that God exists. Therefore, the religious believer must prove that there is a God.

Over time, Flew became a very successful atheist. Overall, he wrote ten books against belief in God, as well as many other works. His works were among the most widely reprinted in all of philosophy. One thing that helped him was that many people assumed, without really looking into it, that science evidence suggested that God does not exist.

So why did he change his mind when he was eighty-one years old? Not because he fears the eternal consequences of a lifetime spent promoting atheism. He insists that he still doesn’t believe in heaven or hell.

Rather, Flew was convinced by modern science findings. He was amazed by the language that is written into the DNA of every cell of each of our bodies. He said, “What I think the DNA material has done is show that intelligence must have been involved in getting these extraordinarily diverse elements together. The enormous complexity by which the results were achieved look to me like the work of intelligence.”

Flew discovered that a number of scientists and philosophers believe that the universe and life forms show scientific evidence of intelligent design—this is called the intelligent design hypothesis. At any rate, Flew began to think seriously about intelligent design in 2000. By 2003, he was actively corresponding with other philosophers about it.

Darwinism or Design?

The alternative to intelligent design is Darwinian evolution or Darwinism. According to Darwinism, life forms develop from amoeba to man by chance mutations, without any design or any need for God.


Flew put all the design arguments to Oxford scientist Richard Dawkins, who is well known not only for his defence of Darwinism but for the promotion of atheism on account of Darwinism.

And, according to Flew, Dawkins—an expert in Darwinian evolution—was not able to answer his objections based on intelligent design. Finally, in early 2004, Flew admitted to American Christian philosopher Gary Habermas that there must be a God. His change of mind became public later in the year, as the result of an interview released by the philosophy journal Philosophia Christi.

Flew makes very clear that he has not become a religious believer in any conventional sense. He thinks that God “… could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose.” In reality, he believes only that God created the universe.

But let’s not discount the importance of that admission. It means that Flew’s life—and yours and mine—have a meaning and purpose that go beyond our own feelings at any given time. We are here because God intended us to be here. That makes a difference as we confront the tangled problems of our lives.

The best-known Muslim author who writes on this fiercely controversial topic is Dr. Harun Yahya. He has written several books that address divine design in nature, notably Evolution Deceit (Istanbul: Arastirma, 2002) and Signs of God: Design in Nature (Istanbul: Global Publishing, 2001). As Yahya notes in his works, modern science knows vastly more today than in past centuries about the intricate details of life. And the more we know, the less likely any atheistic explanation seems.

Turkish Philosopher: Atheism “Mere Irrationality and Ignorance”


“The 21st century will be a historical-turning point when people will generally comprehend the divine realities…” Harun Yahya

Do you have enough faith to be an atheist? Can you look at the marvelous designs of nature and conclude that it all happened by chance? If so, you are part of a shrinking, if stubborn, minority. There has been a steep, widely reported, decline in atheism worldwide.

According to Paul M. Zulehner, a European sociologist of religion, “True atheists in Europe have become an infinitesimally small group. There are not enough of them to be used for sociological research.” And Europe, after all, is hardly noted for its piety. A key reason given is precisely the one that convinced Flew, the growing evidence from science that makes atheism unlikely.

Another reason he gives is that many people embraced atheism in the twentieth century because they hoped for a humanly-based system that would prevent the wrongs often done in the name of religion. But atheistic regimes like communism and Nazism outdid, in every category of wrong, the regimes where most rulers or leaders were religious.

Harun Yahya recently told United Press International, “Atheism, which people have tried for hundreds of years as ‘the ways of reason and science,’ is proving to be mere irrationality and ignorance.” For example, evolution alone, without intelligence, can hardly account for the fact that “a single cell can carry more data than all the volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica put together” (Insight on the News, March 14, 2005).

Yahya even predicts, in Evolution Deceit, that “…the 21st century will be a historical-turning point when people will generally comprehend the divine realities and be led in crowds to God, the only Absolute Being” (p. 248).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** Denyse O’Leary (www.designorchance.com) is a freelance journalist based in Toronto, Canada. Her latest book is By Design or By Chance? The Growing Controversy Over the Origin of Life in the Universe (Augsburg Fortress, 2004). Your emails will be forwarded to her by contacting the science editor at: sciencetech@islam-online.net