Scythians - The Greatest Warriors of World

[waraich66]

Scythians are the forebears of most Indo- European nations today, and yet we know so little about them. A list of nations :

In Europe

Celtic - lived in Scythia, as per ancient Irish annals; the Tuatha de Danann even brought back a contingent of Scythians with them

Germanic tribes - descended from Scythian tribes that wandered over into Europe from little Scythia, which was near the Black Sea; prior to that these Scythians had lived in what is today Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan, but after fighting the Scythian tribe of Massagetae (i.e. 'great getae'), they migrated west. They were chasing another mysterious people,the Cimmerians, from whom the Welsh(Cymru) claim, and certain Germanic tribes (Sugambri) trace, their descent.

Scandinavia - most of the pantheon worshipped by the Svearna (ancestors of the Swedes) were people called the Aesir. They came from the East and fought with the extant Vanir. Odin (Wotan) and Thor were from this family. Additionally the Gotarna of Southern Sweden were Goths and related to the Getae of Thrace, the Visigoth and Ostrogoths and the Massagetae of Asia.

Saxons - a tribe not mentioned by name in ancient history of tribes but evident that Sakson could be another spelling ie sons of Saka (the ancient and proper spelling of Scythian). Even Saxon historians described the men sent back to mainland Europe to get more men for the invasion and settlement of Briton as returning to Scythia

Sarmatians - the lands of the Poles and Russians was ancient Sarmatia; Sarmatians were the product of Scythian men and Amazon women, hence the cultural and language differences between Germanics and Slavs

In Asia

Parthians - originally united around the Pars tribe, Iran was also ruled by a Scythian dynasty in the form of the Parthians, who were a clan from the Dahae tribe. The Dahae are linked to the Goths, as per a strange paragraph in the the Annals and Deeds of the Goths.

Jat & Rajput tribes - of northern India, especially the Punjab have been linked by British ethnographers to Scythian origins, although heavily mixed with the pre-Indo European Dravidian population; probably have Kushan, Chionite, & Massagetae blood.

Afghans - still settled in the area where the Sakas (i.e. Scythian) migrated; probably more likely to be descended from the Massagetae, Scythians and especially the Hephthalites (another Scythic nation), a brutal, warlike people that savaged both the Persians and the Turks till the two united and destroyed their kingdom.

In essence, the nation of Scyths (Sakas) spread from the western coast of Ireland to the bay of Bengal.

Misconception - central asia was exclusively turco-mongol in ancient times

Reality - the nascent Turks (Gok Turk back then) and the Mongols were living near the Tien Shan and Altai range. This is not to say that populations did not mix. The finding of red-haired mummies in the Gobi proves this, but it is clear that central Asia, especially between the Oxus and Jaxartes river and most of Afghanistan was Ancient Scythia, and that the Scythians were nomadic caucosoids.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What a fascinating note! Be aware that you are opening a Pandora's box, with a controversy ripe for the bursting on every line, in every sentence. Still, it is an absolutely splendid subject.

What interests you most about the Scythians? The extent and breadth of their influence? Their European presence and traces? Their Asian and south Asian presence and traces?

Scythians are the forebears of most Indo- European nations today, and yet we know so little about them. A list of nations :

In Europe

Celtic - lived in Scythia, as per ancient Irish annals; the Tuatha de Danann even brought back a contingent of Scythians with them

Germanic tribes - descended from Scythian tribes that wandered over into Europe from little Scythia, which was near the Black Sea; prior to that these Scythians had lived in what is today Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan, but after fighting the Scythian tribe of Massagetae (i.e. 'great getae'), they migrated west. They were chasing another mysterious people,the Cimmerians, from whom the Welsh(Cymru) claim, and certain Germanic tribes (Sugambri) trace, their descent.

Scandinavia - most of the pantheon worshipped by the Svearna (ancestors of the Swedes) were people called the Aesir. They came from the East and fought with the extant Vanir. Odin (Wotan) and Thor were from this family. Additionally the Gotarna of Southern Sweden were Goths and related to the Getae of Thrace, the Visigoth and Ostrogoths and the Massagetae of Asia.

Saxons - a tribe not mentioned by name in ancient history of tribes but evident that Sakson could be another spelling ie sons of Saka (the ancient and proper spelling of Scythian). Even Saxon historians described the men sent back to mainland Europe to get more men for the invasion and settlement of Briton as returning to Scythia

Sarmatians - the lands of the Poles and Russians was ancient Sarmatia; Sarmatians were the product of Scythian men and Amazon women, hence the cultural and language differences between Germanics and Slavs

In Asia

Parthians - originally united around the Pars tribe, Iran was also ruled by a Scythian dynasty in the form of the Parthians, who were a clan from the Dahae tribe. The Dahae are linked to the Goths, as per a strange paragraph in the the Annals and Deeds of the Goths.

Jat & Rajput tribes - of northern India, especially the Punjab have been linked by British ethnographers to Scythian origins, although heavily mixed with the pre-Indo European Dravidian population; probably have Kushan, Chionite, & Massagetae blood.

Afghans - still settled in the area where the Sakas (i.e. Scythian) migrated; probably more likely to be descended from the Massagetae, Scythians and especially the Hephthalites (another Scythic nation), a brutal, warlike people that savaged both the Persians and the Turks till the two united and destroyed their kingdom.

In essence, the nation of Scyths (Sakas) spread from the western coast of Ireland to the bay of Bengal.

Misconception - central asia was exclusively turco-mongol in ancient times

Reality - the nascent Turks (Gok Turk back then) and the Mongols were living near the Tien Shan and Altai range. This is not to say that populations did not mix. The finding of red-haired mummies in the Gobi proves this, but it is clear that central Asia, especially between the Oxus and Jaxartes river and most of Afghanistan was Ancient Scythia, and that the Scythians were nomadic caucosoids.

 

[waraich66]

What a fascinating note! Be aware that you are opening a Pandora's box, with a controversy ripe for the bursting on every line, in every sentence. Still, it is an absolutely splendid subject.

What interests you most about the Scythians? The extent and breadth of their influence? Their European presence and traces? Their Asian and south Asian presence and traces?

I was searching about my tribe (waraich) history , which linked with Scythians , then came to know that Scythians sprung from (House of Isac).

Further major five germanic tribes Angles , Saxon,Danes,Jutes, Vandel are also Scythians.Angles and Saxon moved towards England( Angle land) and Jutes settled in Kent moved from Jutland(Danmark)

 

[Joe Shearer]

I was searching about my tribe (waraich) history , which linked with Scythians , then came to know that Scythians sprung from (House of Isac).

Further major five germanic tribes Angles , Saxon,Danes,Jutes, Vandel also sprung from Scythians.Angles and Saxon moved towards England( Angle land) and also Jutes settled in Kent.

Even these two references could generate multi-volume tomes of history, sociology and linguistics. I would be fascinated in your choice of either track, the Germanic one or the Scythians in south Asia. I assume that you are already familiar with the suggested links between Jats and Sakas, and are hinting at that? If you explore the south Asian link, be aware that all the Jats in the world will be watching, and a significant proportion will want to comment!

Would it be possible to bring us up to speed with a note on possible Waraich connections to the Scythians? That would certainly get responses flowing in.

 

[Rig Vedic]

I was searching about my tribe (waraich) history , which linked with Scythians , then came to know that Scythians sprung from (House of Isac).

Further major five germanic tribes Angles , Saxon,Danes,Jutes, Vandel are also Scythians.Angles and Saxon moved towards England( Angle land) and Jutes settled in Kent moved from Jutland(Danmark)

I have heard that the Waraich tribe is related to the district of Bahraich in UP (Bahraich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

[Rig Vedic]

The name "Waraich" or "Bharaich" is believed to have been derived from the name of an area known as Bahraich, near Agra. Bahraich gradually changed to Bharhaich. A slight difference in pronunciation of sounds like 'Ba' with 'Wa' between East and West Punjab leads to Waraich. Further phonetic variations of the name is Varaich or Warraich.

This family is part of the Suraj Bansi clan(Suryavanshi in Hindi/Sanskrit)(Sun Dynasty in English). They are known to be part of the Aryan migration to India. {However Aryan migration theory is now controversial.} In India, Aryans had three separate clans they are the Suraj Bansi, Chandar Bansi (Moon Dynasty) and Agni Bansi (Fire Dynasty).


Sir Denzil Ibbeston speculated about the sprung from Jewish Descent of the Baraich tribe.[1][citation needed]

According to Sir Lepal Griffin, the Waraich established a city named Bharhaich in India. Later, the tribe moved towards Punjab in times of Ghazni and settled in Gujrat (in present day Pakistan).[2].

At present the original Baraich tribe is settled on the borders of Afghanistan and Balochistan (Pakistan).[citation needed]

According to Epigraphica Indica, Volume I, page29, a rock inscription Chamak Harsati Balaghat mentions that the Bharhaich Jats performed 10 Ashwamedha Yagnyas and, constructed 10 ghats in Banaras (now Varanasi). In fact, these people are clans of great bhara kingdom who ruled the entire eastern UP and bundelkhand region of India. Shri Kashi Prasad Jaisawal, an eminent historian, has refer them as Bharshiva who put the Shivalinga on their shoulder and committed to free the India from forgien yoke like Kushan and other Shaka Khastrpa. The offspring of these people are now known as "Rajbhar" and "Bhar" in eastern part and living in despicable conditions. According, to coins and copper plates found near village Janghat of Farrukhabad and various places in the Punjab, details of which are available in " India in the Cauvery" and "District Inscriptions in the Central Provinces of India".

Warraich have five sons which moved from eastern side of Punjab near Chenab in two cities Gujrat and Gujranwala. Three brothers moved Gujrat and other two moved to other side of Chenab in Gujranwala.

These Jats / Rajputs ruled over Shergarh, they also ruled over Nagaur and other cites till 275 AD. Inscriptions of their times are in Sanskrit.[citation needed]

In or about the 10th century A.D. they moved down to the river Jhelum in large numbers and settled down there. Till the 13th century AD they continued to fight with the Gujars. Even to day they occupy a very compact area comprising 360 villages in a region called Jatat.

In the days of Feroz Shah Tughlaq, a leader of these Jats named Heriya, joined Islam. A village founded by him is known as Hariyawala. After him all the Jats of this gotra joined Islam. Sagarh and Mard gotras are branches of this gotra

Waraichs in Punjab consider themselves to be the progeny of three brothers, Hariya, Gunia and Kurtal, who were rulers of the Bahraich principality. During Sher Shah Suri's conquest of Bengal, these rulers captured his treasure enroute to the province. It was believed that Shah may not succeed in his campaign. To their surprise, Sher Shah won Bengal and established his rule over a large part of Northern India and present day Pakistan.

By this action, The Waraichs, found themselves on the opposing side to the ruler. They left the estate and traveled westwards. They settled upon finding suitable grazing grounds on the banks of the Chenab river. This new home was on the lands previously used by Gujjars for grazing their cattle. This drew rivalry between the Waraich Jats and the Gujjars. Traces of clans presence is evident from the name "Gujrat", which is thought to be derived from "Gujar-Jat".

The Waraich clan gradually spread out to places beyond Gujrat such as Gujranwala and Sargodha (in today's Punjab province of Pakistan).

Warraichs are mostly found in West Punjab in two districts Gujrat and Gujranwala. They have 141 villages in Gujrat and 84 villages in Gujranwala. They have very strong hold in the local areas and very famous warriors.

Waraichs are found in large numbers in the Majha and Malwa (Punjab) region in the state of Punjab in India. A small number are also found in Haryana. In Pakistan, they still inhabit their strongholds along the Chenab.Historically they are landlord and farmers but are also considered fearless warriors and to date there are large numbers in the Indian and Pakistani armies.

80% of residents in the village Bhai Bakhtaur, distt. Bathinda are Waraich.

Most of the latter generations of the Waraich in Punjab (Pakistan) were converted to Islam by Sufi saints, who settled in the Chenab Valley around the year 1780 AD. In Punjab (India) and Haryana, the Waraich are mostly Sikh or Hindu.

Reference for Waraich (Warraich) - Search.com

 

[waraich66]

Waraich belong to Saka or indo scythians , they invaded India with other warrior tribes Gujjar and Khambo and ruled northern west part of India establish scythian Kingdom.

 

[delta2]

I don't see how any "great" warriors could be traced back to india. india was always conquered by the outsiders. The british, the Muslims, before that the Aryans who installed 'caste system' in Hindu culture to ensure their rule etc etc..

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The Scythians are too vague as an ethnic group.

The Scythians lived in Europe weren't the same as those lived in Asia.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

And the only Europeans who are related to them are the Slavs and the Balts, the rests didn't have much to do with the Scyths as genetically proved.

 

[Nalwa]

And the only Europeans who are related to them are the Slavs and the Balts, the rests didn't have much to do with the Scyths as genetically proved.

The Jatts, as is the thread starter, are said to be related to the Scythians. However as you said, these are vague estimates.

---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 PM ----------

I was searching about my tribe (waraich) history , which linked with Scythians , then came to know that Scythians sprung from (House of Isac).

Further major five germanic tribes Angles , Saxon,Danes,Jutes, Vandel are also Scythians.Angles and Saxon moved towards England( Angle land) and Jutes settled in Kent moved from Jutland(Danmark)

I think your tribe would be Jatt and Waraich would be your clan.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The Jatts, as is the thread starter, are said to be related to the Scythians. However as you said, these are vague estimates.

I meant the 'only Europeans' who are related to the Scyths.

The Indo-Iranian speakers in Asia are indeed related to them.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Waraich belong to Saka or indo scythians , they invaded India with other warrior tribes Gujjar and Khambo and ruled northern west part of India establish scythian Kingdom.

If you dissect the preceding post carefully, and exclude the propaganda elements that creep into these unreviewed publications on the 'Net, especially Wikipedia but not confined to it, you will find some hints and clues. These are heavily overlaid by unscientific bits of folk history and completely nonsensical linguistics, like the derivation of Gujrat from Gujjar+Jat rather than an apabhramsa Gurjar-rasthra.

The proximity of Gujjar and Jat is not accidental; Gujjars too are believed to have descended from the Indo-Scythian and later, Parthian (=Pahlava) migrants.

One of the clues to the origins of the Jats is the Suryavanshi/Chandravanshi/Agnivanshi clan affiliation proposed. These were Brahmanical solutions to the problem of suddenly finding a large and war-like community living in their midst, who had no way of belonging to the tautly delineated social categories of the time. Usually, the process of absorption of the external migrants was done on the occasion of a ritual sacrifice and purification, after which the individual or the tribe was absorbed into Hindu society. This was done prominently in the case of the Rajputs, who, yet again, were absorbed in the same way.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I don't see how any "great" warriors could be traced back to india. india was always conquered by the outsiders. The british, the Muslims, before that the Aryans who installed 'caste system' in Hindu culture to ensure their rule etc etc..

You are quite right. There were no 'great' warriors in India, or traceable back to India. Even the outsiders, generally those who settled in the Indus Valley or next to it, became effete and were unable to resist those who came after. One or two generations was enough to render the Baluch, the Sindhi, the Punjabi, the whole lot, quite unfit for warfare, hence their tame going down to whoever came after, from west or east (the British with their Bihari recruits).

A very sound analysis. You are to be congratulated.

 

[Nalwa]

If you dissect the preceding post carefully, and exclude the propaganda elements that creep into these unreviewed publications on the 'Net, especially Wikipedia but not confined to it, you will find some hints and clues. These are heavily overlaid by unscientific bits of folk history and completely nonsensical linguistics, like the derivation of Gujrat from Gujjar+Jat rather than an apabhramsa Gurjar-rasthra.

The proximity of Gujjar and Jat is not accidental; Gujjars too are believed to have descended from the Indo-Scythian and later, Parthian (=Pahlava) migrants.

One of the clues to the origins of the Jats is the Suryavanshi/Chandravanshi/Agnivanshi clan affiliation proposed. These were Brahmanical solutions to the problem of suddenly finding a large and war-like community living in their midst, who had no way of belonging to the tautly delineated social categories of the time. Usually, the process of absorption of the external migrants was done on the occasion of a ritual sacrifice and purification, after which the individual or the tribe was absorbed into Hindu society. This was done prominently in the case of the Rajputs, who, yet again, were absorbed in the same way.

I agree with your view. In the sources that I have accessed there was a confusion about the classification of Jatts under the Varna system. They were pastoral and agriculturalists by profession but war-like and aggressive by outlook. So it seemed that they fit into both the Vaishya and Kshatriya castes. Their late arrival complicated matters.