Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Outfly, Outshoot American Jets

[Dillinger]

That is not going to solve the question about j20s having s duct or not and the larger question about PAKFA vs J20 inlet and duct design.

Oh but it will. Give it a try yaara. I think we both know what the issue here is- Oh noes, S-duct+J-20= we are doomed! and Oh noes, no S-duct in Pak-fa so we are doomed!

 

[he-man]

Oh but it will. Give it a try yaara. I think we both know what the issue here is- Oh noes, S-duct+J-20= we are doomed! and Oh noes, no S-duct in Pak-fa so we are doomed!

pakfa cannot compete with j-20 in respect of stealth

we require better engine and avionics due to that

China just has TRUCKLOADS of money!!

Oh but it will. Give it a try yaara. I think we both know what the issue here is- Oh noes, S-duct+J-20= we are doomed! and Oh noes, no S-duct in Pak-fa so we are doomed!

yes that seems to be the problem here!!

 

[danger007]

i don't know exactly but where ever u read it says that the combo od serpentine duct and DSI limits the reflections from engine blades,,,,plays major role in stealth

you mean frontal RCS or total RCS....

pakfa cannot compete with j-20 in respect of stealth

we require better engine and avionics due to that

China just has TRUCKLOADS of money!!



yes that seems to be the problem here!!

oh on what basis you are saying Pak-fa need better engine? and why? and you think J-20 will get better engine than PAK-FA does?

 

[he-man]

you mean frontal RCS or total RCS....

frontal in this case...........but if u include the total,,,then pakfa slips further due to poor rear stealth.............

1)engine nozzles are not optimized like f-35 or j-20(saw tooth)

2)engine still uncovered

And i need not even talk about aft fuselage and weapon bays-----that part is horrible

 

[Dillinger]

pakfa cannot compete with j-20 in respect of stealth

we require better engine and avionics due to that

China just has TRUCKLOADS of money!!



yes that seems to be the problem here!!

The answer to your questions, explicit and implicit, is there in my first post on this thread and the nugget about planform design and inlet placement.

 

[S-DUCT]

frontal in this case...........but if u include the total,,,then pakfa slips further due to poor rear stealth.............

1)engine nozzles are not optimized like f-35 or j-20(saw tooth)

2)engine still uncovered

PAK-FA is still in prototype stage.Final version will have New revolutionary Type-30 engine to take care of IR and stealth parameters.
F-35 saw tooth nozzles don't decrease IR spectrum too much.Only F-22,YF-23 have true all aspect VLO design.

 

[danger007]

frontal in this case...........but if u include the total,,,then pakfa slips further due to poor rear stealth.............

1)engine nozzles are not optimized like f-35 or j-20(saw tooth)

2)engine still uncovered

And i need not even talk about aft fuselage and weapon bays-----that part is horrible

ok congrats for your clarification

@Dillinger : why you are wasting your time dude...

 

[he-man]

you mean frontal RCS or total RCS....



oh on what basis you are saying Pak-fa need better engine? and why? and you think J-20 will get better engine than PAK-FA does?

simply because we want a pakfa with stage 2 engine producing 176kn(will come around 2018)

current article 117 produce only 147kn of power

and no china will not have a better engine

PAK-FA is still in prototype stage.Final version will have New revolutionary Type-30 engine to take care of IR and stealth parameters.
F-35 saw tooth nozzles don't decrease IR spectrum too much.Only F-22,YF-23 have true all aspect VLO design.

stage 2 engine will come only around 2020...........i am concerned about

1)Protruding irst
2)no internal EOTS as it has a pod for that just like any 4 gen aircraft
3)no s-duct(radar blocker will be used)

all these things will not be rectified even in production pakfa sadly

PAK-FA is still in prototype stage.Final version will have New revolutionary Type-30 engine to take care of IR and stealth parameters.
F-35 saw tooth nozzles don't decrease IR spectrum too much.Only F-22,YF-23 have true all aspect VLO design.

but atleast it does some thing right!!

 

[he-man]

The answer to your questions, explicit and implicit, is there in my first post on this thread and the nugget about planform design and inlet placement.

planform arrangement is fine

but just answer one question,,,without iffs and buts

is radar blocker or s-duct better with respect to stealth

now the answer could be only yes or no

And i am talking about today..........we will see when our fgfa comes

 

[Dillinger]

planform arrangement is fine

but just answer one question,,,without iffs and buts

is radar blocker or s-duct better with respect to stealth

now the answer could be only yes or no

Better for which design? There is a reason I mentioned the planform arrangement and inlet placement AND the "know why" wrt S-duct designs. Till you figure that stuff out there would be no point in any answers on my part or data collection/collation on your part wrt the subject matter.

 

[he-man]

The strength of pakfa will be speed ,agility and supercruise with stage 2 engines

Radars will be very good and stealth will be optimum

Better for which design? There is a reason I mentioned the planform arrangement and inlet placement AND the "know why" wrt S-duct designs. Till you figure that stuff out there would be no point in any answers on my part or data collection/collation on your part wrt the subject matter.

ur post number pls??

i am disappointed that only limited number of ppl are coming to post here

 

[Dillinger]

The strength of pakfa will be speed ,agility and supercruise with stage 2 engines

Radars will be very good and stealth will be optimum



ur post number pls??

My posts won't help in that regard. I've already summed up what they contain, I'll do so again.

1) Warfare is net centric not platform centric.

2) The S-duct design is one of the options for LO/VLO shaping/design.

3) Planform arrangement and inlet placement dictate what solutions are required and/or feasible.

4) Trying to gauge specular reflection properties with the naked eye to any accurate extent is futile.

The rest is up to you.

 

[S-DUCT]

simply because we want a pakfa with stage 2 engine producing 176kn(will come around 2018)

current article 117 produce only 147kn of power

and no china will not have a better engine



stage 2 engine will come only around 2020...........i am concerned about

1)Protruding irst
2)no internal EOTS as it has a pod for that just like any 4 gen aircraft
3)no s-duct(radar blocker will be used)

all these things will not be rectified even in production pakfa sadly




but atleast it does some thing right!!

YF-23,X-32 prototype had Radar blockers too.PAK-FA production variant will not have radar blocker rather it'll have Metal matrix composites cold section Compressor blades.
I think you have observed that F-22 and J-20 engines nozzles are quite close to each other.It hinders Thrust vectoring in Yaw direction so maximum they can have 2 axis TVC.This also one of cons of having S-DUCT intakes.
The point is "Had one relied on only LO/stealth for hostile airspace penetration, then there would have been no need for developing systems like EW suites or E-weapons or anti-radiation missiles. Consequently, LO/stealth is no panacea for all forms of airborne target detection b& to think otherwise means one is still thinking in a platform-centric manner, when the norm in future wars will be network-centric." from PKS sir.

 

[Dillinger]

YF-23,X-32 prototype had Radar blockers too.PAK-FA production variant will not have radar blocker rather it'll have Metal matrix composites cold section Compressor blades.
I think you have observed that F-22 and J-20 engines nozzles are quite close to each other.It hinders Thrust vectoring in Yaw direction so maximum they can have 2 axis TVC.This also one of cons of having S-DUCT intakes.
The point is "Had one relied on only LO/stealth for hostile airspace penetration, then there would have been no need for developing systems like EW suites or E-weapons or anti-radiation missiles. Consequently, LO/stealth is no panacea for all forms of airborne target detection b& to think otherwise means one is still thinking in a platform-centric manner, when the norm in future wars will be network-centric." from PKS sir.

NOT FAIR! HE COPIED DILLI BABA!

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Oh but it will. Give it a try yaara. I think we both know what the issue here is- Oh noes, S-duct+J-20= we are doomed! and Oh noes, no S-duct in Pak-fa so we are doomed!

No worries!! Pakfa air duct and inlet desin philosophy is a bit similar to the B1-B Lancers, i.e., S duct with movable guide vanes.