Rising above differences!

[anant_s]

Then what are going to do with idiots like: Marsoon Marsoon, Kashmir Nah Desoon?

Bahijaan hum to Rahul baba ko samhal rahe hai.

 

[asad71]

Sir' i agree there are Hawks in India too, but then , there are Hawks & hatemongers in Pakistan too, in fact they are on Both sides , one simply can't just label only the Indians , after all its not fair sir', there are Hawks who are against peace in Pakistan too , & if there are Hindu expansionist in India as you have said , who were against peace in Agra , then sir one has to also remember there is the Pakistan Army who destroyed peace in Kargil just after the visit of premier Vajpayee to Lahore , what one says to those Generals of the Pakistan Army who ruined the peace initiatives in the cold heights of Kargil ? were they peace lovers ? No sir they were Not , so while criticizing the Hindu right in India for its negative role played in Agra , please also do remember , the negative & dark role which the Pakistan Army had played in Kargil , after PM Vajpayee's Lahore visit !
so as i have said , there are good guys & bad guys on both sides of the border , singling out India , is not fair , after all Pakistan is not that innocent either

Let us not look at Kargil in isolation. The issue is the occupation of J&K by India against the will of its people. Kashmiris, Pakistanis and Muslims all over will always be struggling to evict Indians from J&K. For peace India just has to face the truth in J&K.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Its not hopeless. Both conflicts are mutually interconnected. See this:

• British Indian partition in 1947 = Pakistan and India
• British Palestinian partition in 1948 = Israel and Palestine
• Major wars followed partition in both conflicts:
  • 47,48
  • 65,67
  • 71,73
  • 84,82
  • 99,00
• Israel and India won all these wars.
• Neither Palestine, nor Pakistan accepted defeat in any of these wars.
• Defeating parties kept on doing wars of attrition against the winning party.
• Hence the conflict is deadlocked and internationalized for decades

@Atanz @Falcon29 @500

yeah but there is another dimension to this. Unlike Indo- Pak where I think we can firmly say that no one wants a comlete existential end to the other party, there really is an existential threat for Israel. The point is that if Israel yields even a little without that changing they will fight a continual existential battle. ANd this is not an exaggeration- when the SOviets fell, the mujahideen did not just 'give up' and go back to their homes. They carried out the battle more emboldened. The Arab States can actually contribute here- stop all the 'we won't let ISraeli passports on our soil', Israel is artificial state etc. and grant them a legitimacy of state, then sit down with them and try to work out a reasonable settlement for the Palestinians.

 

[asad71]

I think ..we are not sure if India and Pakistan problem is just the issue of 69 years ...It is much more than that...I will enlist couple of points...It might be a rude fact..but this is true..

1- Till now, I am not sure is it really Pakistan is upset because of Kashmir or because India is a Hindu majority nation?...This is a very fundamental question....If Pakistan is obsessed with Hindus then of course...Kashmir issue resolution will not solve anything...It is just a matter of time when new issue will come up...

2- For us, i think the rightist people of India, of course like me, Pakistan and its people symbolises the rise of Islam in India at the expense of Hindu culture,religion and cultural invasion of Islamic invaders from outside of my nation...So it is not just Pakistan which is created in last 70 odd year is the issue, rather the pain,anguish and the frustration of Indian right about the inability to defend themselves from Islamic invaders in last 800 years of Bharat's histroy is getting channelised to keep the anger boling for Pakistan...How much it is correct, i do not know..I am not jedgemental here..But this is one of the facts..

See a simple example, the people about whom i read as the invaders who destroyed my temple, is worshipped in Pakistan.....Now if Muslim community still holds the grudge of destruction of Babri Mosque, then how come they do not understand the pain and frustration of Hindu people of their butchered histroy...When we raise this issue, we are threatened in my own nation as rightist extremist...

3- The relation of India with Pakistan is directly related how much Hindu and Muslim relation prosper in my own nation....

4- People always mention that if Kashmir issue is resolved, everything will be fine...But i second that....Honestly i also feel that Kashmir is a waste investement for India....India should have dumped it if the benefactor is not Pakistan....Trust me, the hype of Kashmir will not be same if Pakistan is not involved...The reason Kashmir is getting all the energy and unlimited support rom GOI because, GOI will never allow the Kashmir to win which will perceive as win for Pakistan...If
in place of Pakistan, it is any other nation. things could have been different...The insurgency of NE is far more critical than than of the Kashmir, but how many Indian majority reach the way in which they react to Kashmir issue...There are certain states in N-E which are more anti Indian than Kashmir..At least in Kashmir, only Kashmir valley is anti Indian and rest are somehow fine to be with INDIA, but in N-E , the situation is more scarier in certain states..But you do not get such kind of zingosim for N-E terrorism like Kashmir ones...

So i believe that in order to address the India and Pakistan in proper way, India needs to reconcile itself withing their own population....Hindus and Muslims needs to reconcile themselves their historical baggage...Hindu majority needs to be told that it is true that forced conversion has happened, but apart from that good number of Hindu people converted to Islam because, upper caste Hindus are so bullshit and crappy that lower caste Hindu could not tolerate and converted.....So it is not at all the entire fault of Islam and invaders that Hindus are converted rather than certain blame has to be taken by the Hindu people itself..

After we can reconcile among our Hindu and Muslim population, then 60-70% of our emotional outburst against Pakistan will be reduced ..then the issue will be only political one...And then India will be in a situation to negotiate Kashmir without any emotional baggage...And same is true for Pakistan too...The people of Pakistan has to shed away their hatred for Hindus...then they will be in a proper mindset to negotiate with India with out any emotional hatred for Hindu India...

These are my analysis and experiences

I have also been saying that Kashmir issue is the crux. But then there is a larger issue related and fundamental. India has never ever reconciled to the notion of The Two Nation Theory. India still massacres its Muslims, hates Pakistan and looks down upon BD.

 

[Kaniska]

I have also been saying that Kashmir issue is the crux. But then there is a larger issue related and fundamental. India has never ever reconciled to the notion of The Two Nation Theory. India still massacres its Muslims, hates Pakistan and looks down upon BD.

Dear friend...you are still stuck up in 2 nation theory....You are still lying in the old times about the story propagated by Congress party...Ask any rightist people in India, all will say that 2 nation theory was a valid and it was supposed to happen ...but the reason we get upset is that inspite of 2 nation created for Muslims and Non Muslims, India still accomodates Muslims due to crazy leader like Gandhi and Nehru...Otherwise. we are more than happy that you people are separated..I think India should provide Bharat Ratna to Mr Jinha rather than useless people like Rajiv Gnandhi and many other people...

 

[Norwegian]

Otherwise. we are more than happy that you people are separated

Believe me, you need Muslims, or your profitable Bollywood industry would take a nose dive like never before.

 

[Kaniska]

Believe me, you need Muslims, or your profitable Bollywood industry would take a nose dive like never before.

I do not need neither Hindu not Muslims...I think India needs people who feels Indian first and other identities are secondary....And whoever feels the same, i am with them if also they Muslims or Hindus...

 

[Biplab Bijay]

They believe secularism and liberalism didn't work, so lets try conservatism. Funny, it never worked in US either

No. Selective secularism and selective liberalism wont work. Appeasement policy must go. That is why we vote for BJP.

I love peace and I long for it when it comes to peaceful co-existence between Bharat and Pakistan.

But sadly,

Knowing the trends in Bharat, such wish is getting harder and harder to achieve.

Still wishing everyone

Peace

What you love, what you dont love that does not matter here. It is because you dont have voice. And those whose voice is heard in your country are in no mood for peace.

 

[Norwegian]

No. Selective secularism and selective liberalism wont work. Appeasement policy must go. That is why we vote for BJP.


What you love, what you dont love that does not matter here. It is because you dont have voice. And those whose voice is heard in your country are in no mood for peace.

What is selective secularism / liberalism?

 

[Biplab Bijay]

What is selective secularism / liberalism?

Follow the rules prescribed by Congress Party of India, Some liberal articles in ToI and other newspaper by Sagarika Ghose, Rajdeep Sardesai, Arundhati Roy and Akkar Patel. You will realize what does it mean. You can feel it but can not explain it. Basically justifying appeasement of a particular community/religion/cast in the name of secularism and liberalism is called as selective secularism and liberalism. Secularism and liberalism must be universal to anyone and everyone.

 

[asad71]

Dear friend...you are still stuck up in 2 nation theory....You are still lying in the old times about the story propagated by Congress party...Ask any rightist people in India, all will say that 2 nation theory was a valid and it was supposed to happen ...but the reason we get upset is that inspite of 2 nation created for Muslims and Non Muslims, India still accomodates Muslims due to crazy leader like Gandhi and Nehru...Otherwise. we are more than happy that you people are separated..I think India should provide Bharat Ratna to Mr Jinha rather than useless people like Rajiv Gnandhi and many other people...

Do not ignore the fundamental issue here. The Two Nation Theory is an ongoing phenomenon and ever proliferating. Muslims are now in a position to demand separate homelands in Kerala, W Bengal and Assam. Liberation of Arakan or the emergence of Azad Arakan is a matter of time.

 

[third eye]

I have also been saying that Kashmir issue is the crux. But then there is a larger issue related and fundamental. India has never ever reconciled to the notion of The Two Nation Theory. India still massacres its Muslims, hates Pakistan and looks down upon BD.

The fact that your nation exists establishes that the 2 nation theory was only a gimmick to get a nation. Having got one, they began merrily killing each other , hence your nation.

As regards killing Muslims , more Muslims die at the hands of fellow Muslims than anyone else.

Believe me, you need Muslims, or your profitable Bollywood industry would take a nose dive like never before.

It not a question of needing Musliams or not. The fact is that they have as much right on the land as Hindus, Sikhs, Christian, Jains etc do. We have after all shared this land for centuries.

The bottom line is that the law of the land & its constitution is supreme. Question these then trouble starts.

Do not ignore the fundamental issue here. The Two Nation Theory is an ongoing phenomenon and ever proliferating. Muslims are now in a position to demand separate homelands in Kerala, W Bengal and Assam. Liberation of Arakan or the emergence of Azad Arakan is a matter of time.

Separate states !! Stop imagining things.

Muslims are in no position to seek anything other than a graveyard based on religion.This includes their personal law.

 

[Nair saab]

No Matter what ...

Even if kashmir Issue is Solved and Pakistan and India are best Buddies ...

Still India will have to keep up its Defence Spending ... Indian world view is increasingly different from what Author is thinking ...

Under Modi Government India is first time changing its foreign policy Vis vis Pakistan as well Israel, China, South east Asia and USA...

His policy is to just put Pak on ignore list and focus of rest of India's Neighbor's ... and get India's neighbors involved in India's growth ... This is very different from our previous approach...

 

[Biplab Bijay]

Yes, as long as they do not have a referendum and declare Kashmiris as people who have the right to choose who they wish to be with, war it is. We have no issues with war above keeping our ability for a second strike capability alive. The rest, India has to keep arming themselves for China.

As long as Kashmiri Pundits are not resettled , There will be no referendum. If it war, so be it.

 

[WAJsal]

@WAJsal lil bro just in case you have missed this thread...I hope this thread gets more audience.

I have read it. As far as Pakistan and India is concerned, stupidity has brought us this far. Kashmir issue is easily solvable, quite clear for a mutual point of view that India does not want to solve this issue. No mutual understanding, no talks between the nation. Am sorry as much as i want peace and all, can't see it happening. Not till Indian leadership changes it's approach towards Kashmir issue and in particular Pakistan. Such behavior will only create more problem.