Rising above differences!

[Norwegian]

Hmm I don't think so. Accepting LOC as permanent border would mean accepting defeat, and would hurt each and every Pakistani sentiments.

We have water disputes with India too cause of Kashmir, best we can do is NOT accept LOC as International Border, just to piss India off, as much as we can .

Pissing of India would get us nowhere. Accepting LOC would mean India won't derail much needed foreign investments in the disputed region of Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan

Pakistani sentiments would get hurt no matter matter, even if we captured Delhi someday. Then Pakistanis would say, we are not happy until we recapture Dhaka

 

[Spectre]

That Pakistan accepts LOC as the permanent border. End of story. India won't give us an inch now that they have become so strong in terms of military and economy!

Well if giving an inch or a kilometer would satisfy Pakistan then I am sure we could as a token gesture but it's all or nothing for Pakistan. They want the whole of Kashmir not tokenism.

 

[Norwegian]

Well if giving an inch or a kilometer would satisfy Pakistan then I am sure we could as a token gesture but it's all or nothing for Pakistan. They want the whole of Kashmir not tokenism.

Same as Hamas. They want all of Israel, not an adjustment of borders peacefully.

 

[Spectre]

Same as Hamas. They want all of Israel, not an adjustment of borders peacefully.

What's happening there is a tragedy. I identify both with Palestine and Israel and see where they are coming from.

I don't believe anything that can be done in that part. I have to salute the spirit of Israelis though, they way they have stood against all odds - uncle sam or no uncle sam .

India - Pakistan atleast if not solvable is bearable where in Pakistan gets enough development through CPEC etc to have substantial wealth and development which would make them fearful of loosing it. That along with nuclear deterrent would prevent anything major happening at this corner.

Israel - Palestine is hopeless

 

[Norwegian]

Israel - Palestine is hopeless

Its not hopeless. Both conflicts are mutually interconnected. See this:

• British Indian partition in 1947 = Pakistan and India
• British Palestinian partition in 1948 = Israel and Palestine
• Major wars followed partition in both conflicts:
  • 47,48
  • 65,67
  • 71,73
  • 84,82
  • 99,00
• Israel and India won all these wars.
• Neither Palestine, nor Pakistan accepted defeat in any of these wars.
• Defeating parties kept on doing wars of attrition against the winning party.
• Hence the conflict is deadlocked and internationalized for decades

@Atanz @Falcon29 @500

 

[Spectre]

Its not hopeless. Both conflicts are mutually interconnected. See this:

• British Indian partition in 1947 = Pakistan and India
• British Palestinian partition in 1948 = Israel and Palestine
• Major wars followed partition in both conflicts:
  • 47,48
  • 65,67
  • 71,73
  • 84,82
  • 99,00
• Israel and India won all these wars.
• Neither Palestine, nor Pakistan accepted defeat in any of these wars.
• Defeating parties kept on doing wars of attrition against the winning party.
• Hence the conflict is deadlocked and internationalized for decades

@Atanz @Falcon29 @500

Wow, If i was think tank, i would give you a positive rating.

Never noticed this interesting bit of correlation

 

[halupridol]

India wants to settle all disputes wid Pakistan,as its in our benefit,,but Pakistan shud also understand n consider our sensitivities ,,,there r things we can part with n others tht we cannot,,,not to mention,status quo suits us n its there prerovative to inspire us to come to the table,let alone discuss kashmir,,,ps- screaming aatmi bum doesnt count as inspiration

 

[third eye]

Its not hopeless. Both conflicts are mutually interconnected. See this:

• British Indian partition in 1947 = Pakistan and India
• British Palestinian partition in 1948 = Israel and Palestine
• Major wars followed partition in both conflicts:
  • 47,48
  • 65,67
  • 71,73
  • 84,82
  • 99,00
• Israel and India won all these wars.
• Neither Palestine, nor Pakistan accepted defeat in any of these wars.
• Defeating parties kept on doing wars of attrition against the winning party.
• Hence the conflict is deadlocked and internationalized for decades

@Atanz @Falcon29 @500

Interesting.

There is however a correction . Palestine is a geographic region in Western Asia between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. It is sometimes considered to include adjoining territories. Back in 1948 it was not a nation.

In the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, Israel captured and incorporated a further 26% of the Mandate territory, Jordan captured the region ofJudea and Samaria, renaming it to the West Bank, while the Gaza Strip was captured by Egypt.

The state of Palestine came about only in in 2012 I think.

I wonder why Pakistan didn't try to take Kashmir in 1962 on going Sino-India war???

Pakistan fought a full fledged war with India in 1965 over Kashmir, then why not in 1962? 3 years before? when India-China war was going on?

Back then Pak was firmly in the US fold - CENTO along with Iraq, Iran, Turkey & UK . It was the erstwhile Baghdad pact.

Colluding with communists in any manner was unthinkable. Next, to keep the commies in check US was supporting India tacitly, it would not therefore allow Pak to ruin the show which would eventually help the communists.

I am sure the thought of attacking India in J&K must have been discussed. But its disadvantages outweighed the advantages . This is a fallout of not being able to stand on your own feet - You cannot take your own decisions.

 

[Thorough Pro]

It's not that simple, there are many issues created by india, Kashmir is one of them besides illegal occupation of Siachen glacier, but the most important is indian sponsored proxy war against Pakistan through multiple terrorist organizations including Mukti Bahini, Sindhu Desh, BLA, TTP, MQM, in addition to smaller criminal groups.

Due to indian lies, duplicity, and deceit and a track record of 70 years of interference in our internal matters and financial, technical, and material support to terrorists for creating unrest in Pakistan, we do NOT trust india and can never expect it to not stab us in our back.

only issue between India and Pakistan is Kashmir .

Only solution to kashmir is accepting line of actual control as line of control .

It happens now or after 2000 years that will be only resolution . Neither Pakistan can take a inch of Kashmir from India nor India can do that with Pakistan .

Baaki dhol tamasha jisko jitna karna hai kar lo .

 

[third eye]

Same for India. There will be no India if Pakistan unleashed its entire nuclear inventory.

For Gods sake when will you guys grow up to realise that nukes help nothing but the owners ego.

Have Pak nukes helped in any manner against the cleat , present & ever growing danger of fundamentalism in Pak ?

Many nations have nukes. Only Pakistan & N Korea openly threaten their use. Speaks a great deal of the level of maturity of their leadership.

I could never forget this historical photo of Shastri following Tashkent declaration. He had a height of a kid among so many great people:

What are you trying to say ?

 

[Norwegian]

What are you trying to say ?

He may have had a height of a dwarf, but had a vision stronger than those tall men standing around him.
.

 

[third eye]

He may have had a height of a dwarf, but had a vision stronger than those tall men standing around him.
.

Intellect & mental strength too.

 

[Kaniska]

I think ..we are not sure if India and Pakistan problem is just the issue of 69 years ...It is much more than that...I will enlist couple of points...It might be a rude fact..but this is true..

1- Till now, I am not sure is it really Pakistan is upset because of Kashmir or because India is a Hindu majority nation?...This is a very fundamental question....If Pakistan is obsessed with Hindus then of course...Kashmir issue resolution will not solve anything...It is just a matter of time when new issue will come up...

2- For us, i think the rightist people of India, of course like me, Pakistan and its people symbolises the rise of Islam in India at the expense of Hindu culture,religion and cultural invasion of Islamic invaders from outside of my nation...So it is not just Pakistan which is created in last 70 odd year is the issue, rather the pain,anguish and the frustration of Indian right about the inability to defend themselves from Islamic invaders in last 800 years of Bharat's histroy is getting channelised to keep the anger boling for Pakistan...How much it is correct, i do not know..I am not jedgemental here..But this is one of the facts..

See a simple example, the people about whom i read as the invaders who destroyed my temple, is worshipped in Pakistan.....Now if Muslim community still holds the grudge of destruction of Babri Mosque, then how come they do not understand the pain and frustration of Hindu people of their butchered histroy...When we raise this issue, we are threatened in my own nation as rightist extremist...

3- The relation of India with Pakistan is directly related how much Hindu and Muslim relation prosper in my own nation....

4- People always mention that if Kashmir issue is resolved, everything will be fine...But i second that....Honestly i also feel that Kashmir is a waste investement for India....India should have dumped it if the benefactor is not Pakistan....Trust me, the hype of Kashmir will not be same if Pakistan is not involved...The reason Kashmir is getting all the energy and unlimited support rom GOI because, GOI will never allow the Kashmir to win which will perceive as win for Pakistan...If
in place of Pakistan, it is any other nation. things could have been different...The insurgency of NE is far more critical than than of the Kashmir, but how many Indian majority reach the way in which they react to Kashmir issue...There are certain states in N-E which are more anti Indian than Kashmir..At least in Kashmir, only Kashmir valley is anti Indian and rest are somehow fine to be with INDIA, but in N-E , the situation is more scarier in certain states..But you do not get such kind of zingosim for N-E terrorism like Kashmir ones...

So i believe that in order to address the India and Pakistan in proper way, India needs to reconcile itself withing their own population....Hindus and Muslims needs to reconcile themselves their historical baggage...Hindu majority needs to be told that it is true that forced conversion has happened, but apart from that good number of Hindu people converted to Islam because, upper caste Hindus are so bullshit and crappy that lower caste Hindu could not tolerate and converted.....So it is not at all the entire fault of Islam and invaders that Hindus are converted rather than certain blame has to be taken by the Hindu people itself..

After we can reconcile among our Hindu and Muslim population, then 60-70% of our emotional outburst against Pakistan will be reduced ..then the issue will be only political one...And then India will be in a situation to negotiate Kashmir without any emotional baggage...And same is true for Pakistan too...The people of Pakistan has to shed away their hatred for Hindus...then they will be in a proper mindset to negotiate with India with out any emotional hatred for Hindu India...

These are my analysis and experiences

 

[HariPrasad]

Being anti Hindu and anti India is core to the 2 nation theory. Pakistani army is obsessed with India and they will not allow the relation between 2 countries to be flourished. We can only hope for the best.

 

[third eye]

1- Till now, I am not sure is it really Pakistan is upset because of Kashmir or because India is a Hindu majority nation?...This is a very fundamental question....If Pakistan is obsessed with Hindus then of course...Kashmir issue resolution will not solve anything...It is just a matter of time when new issue will come up...

It began with being a poor loser who refused to accept realities.

With time its become an issue of survival. There are countless threads here which highlight the severe water situation in Pakistan - a nation whose underground water resources are worth only 30 days as compared to India's 230 days.

Kashmir now has become critical not for love for the land or its people but for the water.

All water baring a miniscule amount that flows into Pakistan is from India. Kashmir will serve as an insurance for water supply.