Religion vs. Reason

[313ghazi]

So muslims started hating maths cuz some barbarians burned a building in some far away city in a vast empire??
No my friend.To put it simply(and inadequately), Its the molvi today, and yesterday it was the molvi as well. When you have people like Imam Ghazali declaring philospohy as haram and mathematics as a ladder to apostasy, you bet the common folk wont be interested in studying them. That was a very different and complex time, and its a far too tedious discussion to be having on a forum like this..

The vast majority of the world population until 100 years ago or so was generally illiterate. Knowledge was held by very few people and before the printed press books were extremely rare. Cities like Baghdad were remote centres of knowledge, like Oasis in the desert. This was the case world over. When it was burnt and it's inhabitants slaughtered, that was a significant impact.

 

[The Accountant]

Fanatics try to keep people repressed to keep them illiterate

Agreed, and that is our society.

 

[Morpheus]

Isn't it hypocritical of him. He is blaming religion for the downfall in science, yet he (a physicist) is not teaching science. He is doing everything except teach science. Maybe its not religions' fault completely. If we have people like him, who don't want to teach science, rather just complain about religion, then science will fall behind.

 

[Buddhistforlife]

Excellent decision by the Punjab Governor.

A large number of students and Pakistani citizens, are completely oblivious to teachings of Allah Almighty in the Holy Quran. This holy revelation is about creating an Islamic civilization and understanding the meaning of GOD, and why disbelief is harmful in practice and otherwise. The holy revelation also contain information which wasn't common knowledge 1400 years ago; there are revelations which can be understood today with scientific knowledge base on hand, and there are revelations which cannot be understood even today - perhaps in the future.

People do EVIL because they do not have FEAR of Allah Almighty in their hearts; these kind of people are the biggest source of corruption in any society. But Hoodboy types do not get this.

Science is not infallible by the way; it is not divine. New findings continue to emerge and challenge older findings over time. There are SOLID theories which continue to hold in the face of new findings, and these shall be respected. But it is a mistake to assume that humans know everything now coz science.

So you are suggesting young people to leave school and colleges and study at Madrassas?

 

[jamahir]

Impressive (no sarcasm or irony intended). Have you somehow managed to make money with that?

With the OS, I and a financing partner opened a small company to commercially develop the OS but me and him months later had a difference of opinion and closed down the company. But no hard feelings remained between me and him.

During the company's operation couple of people from HAL ( the government's aeronautical research organization ) came and were mildly curious about the OS.

In this period I happened to visit one of India's top IT companies and a manager from it asked me if I could teach that current status OS to some of his managerial level people and offered 1.5 lakhs for a two day training period. I thought the money was very less and didn't take up the offer.

About the microprocessor, I am at a good stage of its development and in some days intend to make the rounds of venture capitalist companies to fund its further development ( the dev will take a year more I think ).

 

[The Accountant]

And what happened in the present ?

When Neil Armstrong returned from his moon trip he was cornered by some Muslim misguided reporters who asked him if he heard the azaan on the moon. That is the silly state of Muslims now. All prayer and no think.

Illiteracy not Islam. It was muslim scholars that discover that earth is round and the solar system.

Give me one authentic book of Islam (Quran or Sahih Hadith) claiming that Azan is an autonomous process. On the contrary Messenger of Allah (SAW) ordered to physically offer azan.

This is illitracy and lack of understanding of religion on part of those journalists and have nothing to do with Islam. Islam is something written in Quran and Sahih hadith nothing less nothing more. Provide me evidence of teaching of QUran and Hadith which is anti development?

Otherwise its the fault of the people. Religion or no religion illiterate people will keep on doing these stupid mistakes.

ok, i dont even gonna touch this topic with a 10ft pole, but all this muslim golden age crap is spoon-fed too oversimplified to the masses. Anyone care to study why was this golden age so short lived and then utterly destroyed?? anyone care to study what happened to the muslim scientists of that era?? were they so appreciated in their own time like they are today?? or were they the subject of fatwas and witch hunted by molvis of their time ? Muslims today will never rise to any significance because we are too proud to see things objectively and admit our own shortcomings.

Short era. lolz, you have no knowledge of history. Muslim ruled the world starting from end of 6th century to 17th century. There was no other civilization comparative to Muslims in those 11 centuries.

 

[Naofumi]

No they didn't. Places like Cambodia, Thailand, North Korea are not heaven on earth. Why? North Korea is incredibly atheist and communist. Why is it still a shithole? The answer has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with economics, politics and wider society.

Dude, you can cherry pick outliers but you can't deny the larger trend. Economics (especially in case of a religion like adherence to an ideology - Communist's case) and politics have a role too but political religion will always remain a roadblock to free decisions and development.

 

[LeGenD]

So you are suggesting young people to leave school and colleges and study at Madrassas?

No,

Religious teaching is possible in any education institute. Madrassah system is not a requirement.

Muslims should be encouraged to learn and understand what is the message in Holy Quran. There is no need to take exams and charge fee for the needful (attendance requirement will do) - religion is not supposed to be ratta of contents and not about a business commodity either. Understanding of its contents is important however to promote spirituality - certain things stay in mind.

Materialism have poisoned the minds of many. It promotes individualism, corruption, and statusquo.

 

[The Accountant]

am not here to spoon-feed you, no one says literacy having one definition but still the number of local madarsa/schools were limited to urban areas. Don't bother to ping me unless you can do a little google search yourself

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/4735593_Literacy_and_the_'great_divide'_in_the_Islamic_world_1300-1800​

Limited or not limited to urban areas in comparison to Europe literacy rate of Islamic world was very high. And the paper you copy pasted after googling also claim the same here is the extract from conclusion:

Do read before copying the link.

It is denying your own statement of illietrate muslim world

 

[Naofumi]

It is denying your own statement of illietrate muslim world

Lol, man. It's not comparing it to the modern world - it's not saying that "they were more literate than 21st century Muslims" which I am arguing here.

 

[The Accountant]

Where did i said that they were more modern than 21st century.

I am simply saying that they were world leaders of their time and were super power and were following religion as well.

So claim that religion and advancement are opposite is false.

Lol, man. It's not comparing it to the modern world - it's not saying that "they were more literate than 21st century Muslims" which I am arguing here.

 

[Naofumi]

Where did i said that they were more modern than 21st century.

I am simply saying that they were world leaders of their time and were super power and were following religion as well.

So claim that religion and advancement are opposite is false.

Dumbo, they were following "less religion " than us - less theologically literate on average than us, simply because of the literacy at that time, anyways you are being wilfully dense, hence I am done with you.

 

[The Accountant]

Dumbo, they were following "less religion " than us - less theologically literate on average than us, simply because of the literacy at that time, anyways you are being wilfully dense, hence I am done with you.

doesnt make any sense. Didnt they know that in islam there is a need to pray 5 times, and practice fast and perform hajj?

A common person still dont read theology or even meaning of quran.

YOu are making claims in air.

As you have no arguments therefore I am also done with u

 

[Psychic]

As for the blood clot ayahs although for the time somewhat accurate

Alaq has multiple meanings...one of which is medicinal leech...go look it up. People of that time took whatever meaning that they thought was accurate. The same was the case with the word noon.

Science is continuously evolving itself. Einstein proved Newtonian model to be false, earth being eternal was disproved by big bang theory and so on.

Taking a snapshot of a particular phase of history while disregarding several centuries during which Muslims were ahead of the West in terms of science, mathematics, medicine, surgery, chemistry, optics, military might and culture to prove that Islam is against science and technology and development is intellectual fraud and gimmickry.

That guy (Hoodbhoy) is a fraud and a dishonest persowho gave extra marks to those students who attended PTM processions and rallies. Character or rather the lack of it.

 

[jamahir]

Illiteracy not Islam.

More precisely, padhe likhe jaahil.

It was muslim scholars that discover that earth is round and the solar system.

I am not sure about this. I thought it was the Greeks. But you can correct me with some articles.

Give me one authentic book of Islam (Quran or Sahih Hadith) claiming that Azan is an autonomous process. On the contrary Messenger of Allah (SAW) ordered to physically offer azan.

Since I have just began to read the English translation of the Quran I will take your word for it.

This is illitracy and lack of understanding of religion on part of those journalists and have nothing to do with Islam.

I agree.

Materialism have poisoned the minds of many. It promotes individualism, corruption, and statusquo.

We are all materialist people. It is just that our desire for fulfillment of our ( reasonable ) necessities should not cause injustice in society or cause ecological disharmony.