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R&D neglected in Muslim countries

It is neglected because countries when they become infested by mullahs and mutaween do not believe in science and technology but monthly stipends, enforcement of hijab, segregation and enforcement of lengthy five time a day prayers.
 
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Steppe Nomads were natural born warrior individuals due to their environment and terrain, same was true of Arab Bedouins to a lesser extent. When these nomadic population united and borrowed from war tactics from more advanced settled civilizations, they were invincible people as the entire nation mobilized as army. Both Goths and Aegean tribes had superior war skills like the nomads compared to Romans and Persians. But in all these cases, I think these tribes had higher historical continuity than the empires they defeated, because the empires were much lower in historical continuity, which were a conglomeration and a mix of various tribes and were new creations, compared to older tribal structures of the winning "barbarians".

Now a days, with MAD, total war means defeat for both parties, so war is limited in the economic arena, where my "equations" still remain valid. But then it is not an exact science, its just a vague idea related to Historical Sociology:
Historical sociology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Path dependence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My "road map" is actually based on these hypothesis about Historical Continuity and Size:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...orld-order-road-map-future-8.html#post2758071
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...orld-order-road-map-future-8.html#post2772275

I think we are agreeing but using different terms for the same thing: what you call 'historical continuity', I am calling 'stable governance'. Basically, we need a level of stability within the group, and a patronage by the political/financial elite, in order for scientific research to flourish.
 
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The big picture of this Thread shows that our Indian friends want to tell us Muslims how scientific research works and should be implemented, while forgetting that we have started the whole concept successfully a millennia ago.

So, many thanks for your efforts and advices, but we do have the best frame (for us) to follow.
 
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The big picture of this Thread shows that our Indian friends want to tell us Muslims how scientific research works and should be implemented, while forgetting that we have started the whole concept successfully a millennia ago.

So, many thanks for your efforts and advices, but we do have the best frame (for us) to follow.

You mean "started AND abandoned the whole concept a millennium ago". :lol:
 
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You mean "started AND abandoned the whole concept a millennium ago". :lol:

No, didn't abandon it or forced to till the 18th century.

Please read post #28 in this thread.

P.S: If your answer is only to troll, please reconsider it, since it won't do you any good or to the people trying to learn more.
 
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No, didn't abandon it or forced to till the 18th century.

The period of Khalifa Harun ar Rashid was the most glorious. Technically, it was pretty much abandoned in late 1000s. After the destruction of Baghdad, that creative, intellectual zeal never returned again.
 
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The period of Khalifa Harun ar Rashid was the most glorious. Technically, it was pretty much abandoned in late 1000s. After the destruction of Baghdad, that creative, intellectual zeal never returned again.

No? I think you are missing alot from where you stand.
How about Andalusia.
 
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From Wikipedia:

Asabiyyah

The bond of cohesion among humans in a group forming community. The bond, Asabiyyah, exists at any level of civilization, from nomadic society to states and empires. Asabiyyah is most strong in the nomadic phase, and decreases as civilization advances. As this Asabiyyah declines, another more compelling Asabiyyah may take its place; thus, civilizations rise and fall, and history describes these cycles of Asabiyyah as they play out.

Each dynasty (or civilization) has within itself the seeds of its own downfall. He explains that ruling houses tend to emerge on the peripheries of great empires and use the much stronger `asabiyya present in those areas to their advantage, in order to bring about a change in leadership. This implies that the new rulers are at first considered "barbarians" by comparison to the old ones. As they establish themselves at the center of their empire, they become increasingly lax, less coordinated, disciplined and watchful, and more concerned with maintaining their new power and lifestyle at the centre of the empire—i.e, their internal cohesion and ties to the original peripheral group, the `asabiyya, dissolves into factionalism and individualism, diminishing their capacity as a political unit. Thus, conditions are created wherein a new dynasty can emerge at the periphery of their control, grow strong, and effect a change in leadership, beginning the cycle anew.

The Asabiyyah cycle described by Ibn Khaldun was true for nearly all civilizations before the modern era. Nomadic invaders had always ended up adopting the religion and culture of the civilizations they conquered, which was true for various Arab, Berber, Turkic and Mongol invaders that invaded the medieval Islamic world and ended up adopting Islamic religion and culture.
Beyond the Muslim world, the Asabiyyah cycle was also true for every other pre-modern civilization, whether in China whose dynastic cycles resemble the Asabiyyah cycles described by Ibn Khaldun, in Europe where waves of barbarian invaders adopted Christianity and Greco-Roman culture, or in India or Persia where nomadic invaders assimilated into those civilizations.

Some more examples:

1. Northern Europeans consider (and depict) themselves to be inheritors of Greco-Roman cultures, although the original Greeks or Romans were mediterraneans not Germanic.

2. Arab scientist of the Golden age of Islam considered themselves as the intellectual heirs of Greek science and philosophy.

3. Temujin was so inspired by Central Asian culture that he gave himself a Turkic title 'Chengiz Khan'.

4. When the Turks conquered Constantinopole, they considered their rule to be a continuity of the Romans.

5. Alexander the Great adopted Persian culture and customs and wanted to be the ruler of Persia.

6. Every damn American you meet in the countryside has some of the 'Cherokee' blood :D - surely they are all lying except perhaps Johnny Depp.
 
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Assabiya means nervous disorder containing a lot of obstinence and stubbornness. it is also the opposite of flexibility.
 
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The big picture of this Thread shows that our Indian friends want to tell us Muslims how scientific research works and should be implemented, while forgetting that we have started the whole concept successfully a millennia ago.

So, many thanks for your efforts and advices, but we do have the best frame (for us) to follow.
No...The true 'big picture' here is that unless there is continuity of transference of knowledge, exploitation of knowledge, and knowledge on how to exploit knowledge, then history is irrelevant. You -- as a modern day muslim -- have no relations to the muslims of the past who were among the pioneers of science. They were pioneers as members of a nationalistic -- not religious -- tribe. Whatever they did it was out of nationalistic -- not religious -- pride.

Since then, the world have changed, most of all the scientific world. Those who surpassed the muslims in this arena did not forget the contributions the earlier muslims made, they simply ignored it out of necessity. They had to ignore it. When they read how the imams strained the Quran to fit modern day scientific discoveries and claimed it was modern day science that conformed to Quranic 'teachings' and that all modern day science somehow 'owe' the muslims the credits, modern day scientists have no choice but to ignore the modern day muslims.

So no, the modern day muslims no longer have any credibility in science. You need infidels' efforts and advices. You lost that best frame a long time ago.
 
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You -- as a modern day muslim -- have no relations to the muslims of the past who were among the pioneers of science

Sorry, you are wrong about it.

Of course if one translates other's books he can ignore them totally, but this does not take away any knowledge from the originals.

Good attempt but very childish talk and amateurish.
 
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It's still a theory genius; evolution is not a concept accepted by all scientists.

You obviously dont know the difference between a theory and a hypothesis.

Anyhow "Theory of Gravity", "Theory of relativity". Ring a bell?

Yes theories are tested time and time again, and provide the best explaination of observable phenomenom and make testable predictions. Evolution has been observed in microorganisms, and we know that baterial strains become resistant to drugs.

Furthermore the fossil record does not show Mammals in the era where sea life had yet to evolve into land organisms.

People have tried to prove it wrong like they tried to prove General relativity wrong, and it is part of sciencce to test any contention.

Even Darwin pointed out the flaws in his theory, namely it did not explain the origin of life. Howver the theory still holds.

You may try to prove it wrong by conducting tests in the lab, and if you do manage to prove it incorrect you will have started a paradigm shift. Becomming the Newton of the 21st century.

Thats the best part. You are free to disprove any theory provided empirical evidence is given and your experiments can be replicated by others.

Anyhow on the topic. You Cannot discover things if you know everything. Muslims believe they know everything, and that the koran is the last word.

Good on them, if it gives them peace of mind.

The contradictions are enormous however. Their nations are the most corrupt, rank low in HDI, and most of all they are violent.

Japan seems to be doing fine without Islam wouldn't you say?
 
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If anybody really studies Islamic history in detail, they will observe that most of the country where Islam is majority was conquered by the early 4 caliphs. Umayyads conquered spain and Ottomans, Eastern europe, but the same Islamic zeal was absent. Most of those region's population is not muslim. The reason why Islam spread so quickly early is because only the Quran was assumed to be the Guidance and nothing else. Quran's laws and guidance adopted to every culture and every place.

The degeneration of Islam and deviation from Quran started when Hadiths were published, around 300+ year after Prophet mohammed's death, despite our Prophet's and Quran's explicit command to not follow anything other than Quran as guidance.

This degeneration gained pace when the printing press was invented in 15th Century and Hadiths were made cheap and widespread. This created all sorts of sects in Islam and infighting from then on. Organised Shias as a political movement. Religious scholars started to elevate Hadiths to the status of Quran or even more to further their agenda. Began to neglect the Quran for Hadith etc.

If you read the Quran, you will know that God has promised that he WILL give victory to believers if they truly believe in him. However, almost all battles fought by Muslims since the last 500 years or so have been lost. So, are we on the correct path?
 
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Sorry, you are wrong about it.

Of course if one translates other's books he can ignore them totally, but this does not take away any knowledge from the originals.

Good attempt but very childish talk and amateurish.
The one who is childish here is YOU who totally missed the point. This is about cultural and institutional, not technical, transmissions of knowledge.
 
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So, how come apes still exist?

Japan had a Marshal plan of its own from the US after WW2, that is why.
Now they are going dwindling and very worried about their future (Not enough kids to carry on).

I think you are the one who pretends to know everything, no Muslim has claimed that.

And yes the Koran is the final word as far as religion is concerned, and science has its limitations due to the human limitations, so Koran is true on this too.
 
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