PM Nawaz pays surprise visit to two commercial centres in Islamabad

[syedali73]

Wrong; This is show of strength by Police prior Moharram/Ashura, First appear in Arabic News site
http://translate.google.com/transla...s/world-press/2013-02-13-1.549172&prev=search

Public Yes; but Not Pakistani.........Indonesian
Solving Jakarta’s Traffic Congestion? | GIVnews.com - Indonesian Perspective to Global Audience

Wrong Again; Its Raiwind but not for Sharifs i/o Raiwind annual Religious gatherings
1,500 security and 999 traffic cops for Ijtema – The Express Tribune

@RescueRanger

Your are supposed to be a TT........hhmmmmmm!!

OK. Count the cars now! Please note that there is not a single vehicle on the road because kammi kameen are expected to take the PML(N) -provided space shuttles to reach to their destinations.

 

[Leader]

andaz to badshaho walay hay, per dil badshaho wala nai... lol... asi guthi tay rakh keir chapaireen maree hain nawaz sharif ko... wah !!

 

[Stephen Cohen]

And how is India any different? Don't you have Brahamins who think they own the world and every single Indian citizen is a second degree person? Before you decline it, know that two of my very good friends are Brahmans. I hear it first hand what they think of the remainder of humanity, including us, the "stupid" Americans as they refer to people in the US. Well, I am a friend so I hear and say and its tolerated.

Next, did India not have the Gandhis, the Singhs, the Rathors, the Thakurs and all? Did India not have businessmen that did corruption and lots of it? Did India not have military generals who didn't do corruption for billions of rupees? Does India not have a religious issue where others (minorities) till today are persecuted and killed? Forceful "home comings" are being staged to bring back "converted Christians, Muslims, etc back to Hinduism or else" by the Hindu extremist organizations??.

The fact is, both the genetics are the same in India and Pakisan. India's face saving even with the same mentality of people and problems is due to the Democratic system, which then brings tolerance of others to some level. In Pakistan, tolerance is a rare bird and there were two left around 1950's. No one know where they went since. This very thread is a prime example of the lack of a system, a systematic thought and tolerance for others.
People are biitching about an elected officials security, you have think tanks posting wrong and misinformation with links from other countries, trying to portray them to be Pakistan, to make their point based on baseless facts. ALL because the PM isn't their guy. Their leader hasn't shown respect to others, doesn't respect the mandate and the right of people to vote, doesn't respect the running government and the parliament. But tells people to go do violent, which this guy's seen the world and was educated in the UK and had a Caucasian Jewish Wife!!! Go figure where his tolerance left after doing all that. People on here, follow the same disrespectful, demeaning and undemocratic way of showing displeasure for one or more individuals, without a reason (or the reasons are made up like the videos which were posted from Indonesia or Malaysia, trying to prove a Pakistan related discussion)

India has corruption but we are still much better than you in the following ways

1 ) Haven't you heard of the word ESTABLISHMENT in Pakistan
Try to find out who it comprises of and HOW the members of the establishment
or the system put THEIR interests before national interests

Diary of a Politically Incorrect Vagabond: Mapping the establishment – by Ayesha Siddiqa

2 ) In India the rule of law and Institutional INTEGRITY is far higher and
credible than other countries ; therefore we get more Investment

Institutional CHECKS and BALANCES are real and strong

3 ) Recently we had cases of crony capitalism in the Congress rule
but we managed to throw them out

4) We have a HUGE Middle class more than 300 Million
and we are NOT ruled by 2200 families ;
22 families ruled Pakistan in 1970, 2200 rule it today: Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri - Minhaj-ul-Quran International

This keeps the the Powers that be ; IN CHECK

5) Our democracy is genuine ; real and much more representative
That is why you see New parties and new faces

Even amongst the family owned parties there are revolts and rebellions
as Congress party is facing

6 ) Our Judiciary is very strong and independent
Our Constitution is real

7 ) The media too plays a positive role rather than just supporting the government

8) We got rid of FEUDALISM way back in the 50s

 

[RescueRanger]

Do you think you are debating with a total fool here???? Allow me to shed some light for you about YOUR country and how the security works . You've put wrong content here which isn't right. Out of your political affiliations, you are accusing one party who isn't here to defend themselves so I'll highlight some facts:

1) The motorcade you showed, isn't JUST for one leader of the state. Propaganda is one thing but flat out lying is another. If you open your eyes, you'll see that there are about four security details in this one long video. Now after each one passes by, take a look at the number of black sedans (Mercedes S 500's used for the PM and for any Head of State Visiting). You'll find that there are about 3-4 Sedans, which tells you that its probably one or two PM's or Presidents of different state visiting. Or, one PM or President with their Senior Federal Ministers visiting, and then add your PM and CM too. That is, if this is truly Lahore and not Islamabad.

2) Its unbelievable that out of an entire force of a metropolitan city, 75% of the entire Elite force is allocated over a few bodies (so about 10000 out of 15000??). Its also not true either.
For the CM and PM's residence, there is a contingent of Elite force trained for rescue and escort jobs in "hot" environments like the one you find in Pakistan where Taliban terrorists used to roam free and were able to attack at will.

3) The PM's security is your military's responsibility per the constitution. There will ALWAYS be 111 Brigade's small contingent assign to protect the PM. PLUS, the Security detail comes from a Brigadier ranked officer assigned to your PM's office by your military. He sits in the PM house and without his approval, the PM doesn't move. It was the military's decision to send your PM's bullet proof vehicle to Nepal no to long ago.
If you don't believe it, check out a clearer video again and you'll see a couple of unmarked cars with black tinted screens. Those are your special forces guys assigned to protect your PM and they specialize in counter assault, in case someone initiated an assault on the motorcade.

4) I've seen General Zia's motorcade when I last met him, I've seen Musharraff's motorcade in 1999 right after the coupe when I was in Islamabad for a two day meeting. So PLEASE, don't tell me that those guys were blessings in disguise instead of being plain old dictators, while, NS and othrs are the worst thing as your IK can't seem to understand how to be a politician and all you could do is just bash NS.

5) Now back to reality, I agree with the most fundamental idea of your post (outside of playing personals and favorites). A country as poor as Pakistan, the security detail has always bothered me. Like i said, I've seen Gen. Zia, Mushy, Baig, NS, Benazir and many of your ministers, it used to blow my mind away how poor people's tax dollars were being wasted in show offs security details. That's the sad reality of Pakistan.

But at this time, you also have to realize, you are in a democratic system and Pakistan isn't a 90's country, it is now a nuke power, whether I like it or not. So, protecting your PM and COAS in a way shows off protection for your military might and assets. The country would go through chaos if a serious attack took out the elected PM and a couple of senior leaders. The world will have NO trust left in Pakistan's safety of its nukes. So since 2001, there is a need for tighter security. Back in the 90's, it used to be a waste of tax dollars and a total show off like I mentioned before.

Indian PM NOW, after so much growth and availability of $$$$ shows off some serious security detail. In fact, they have modeled their security detail similar to the US with some serious style. I remember in the 90's, Indian PM's would be sitting in their Mruti's to promote Made in India products and Pakistani PM's and Generals would be sitting in high end Mercedes Benzes.
Guess what worked? A nation's hard work and resolve took them way up and the ones doing show off are left behind. Pakistani nation now needs hard work and supporting the elected government is the best way to do it. When the votes come, you can vote against NS, if you win, great. If your guy loses it, then sorry, its called democracy for you. You'll have to wait another term.

Hyperbole,

And please don't think you are talking to some stray off the street. I have first hand operational experience of how security in my country works.

So are you for one minuite suggesting that the express tribune a US affiliated newspaper and DAWN the most respected newspaper in the whole of Pakistan are lying?

Did I just pull those statistics out off my hat? Those videos are what they are? Don't beliee me google them yourself.

Are you saying that a run flat doesn't cost $600 and $800 respectively? Or the prices for the vehicles and aircraft maintaiance quoted are false but all of those are FACT!

BTW you conveniently chose to ignore the video I posted of Hamza Sharif using government security apparatus and being provided more security than that provided to a former prime minister.

If anything, you have not fully digested my argument because you are so blinded by your own presumed knowledge that you can not tell fact from fiction.

All the information I have provided you is fact with sources and all you have provided me is some nonsensical rebut all of how you have seen the security detail of Zia and mush both of which were army men and would have been protected by 111 brigade.

We are talking about civilian leaders here, something you have failed to grasp is you are taking to someone who worked and continues to work in this field.

I too have worked on PSDs etc etc etc, things I'd rather not share on an open forum.

If you have worked in Pakistan at the time of Mush can you tell me the name of the RSO stationed at the American counsulate at the time? You can tell me via PM if you like.

if you indeed Have seen the PSD provided to gen m then you would know that civilian ministers are protected by the police and the military leadership is protected by the military.

Don't sit there and lecture me with nonsense, it's easy for an outsider looking in.

You have yet to provide me with one factual argument. Now if you would care to deal in facts with sources a debate is most welcome, otherwise quit wasting my time and yours.

 

[WishLivePak]

Wrong; This is show of strength by Police prior Moharram/Ashura, First appear in Arabic News site
http://translate.google.com/transla...s/world-press/2013-02-13-1.549172&prev=search




Public Yes; but Not Pakistani.........Indonesian
Solving Jakarta’s Traffic Congestion? | GIVnews.com - Indonesian Perspective to Global Audience




Wrong Again; Its Raiwind but not for Sharifs i/o Raiwind annual Religious gatherings
1,500 security and 999 traffic cops for Ijtema – The Express Tribune

@RescueRanger

Your are supposed to be a TT........hhmmmmmm!!

That motorcycle picture didn't look real and I tried googling, but even pakistani media was showing it without source. None in pakistan wear helmets like that.

It's funny how these people are trying to find more videos, after all ready being exposed of their bias and propaganda. Instead of accepting they were wrong and admit in their post, they'd say "ok look at these? Same thing!"

Hyperbole,

And please don't think you are talking to some stray off the street. I have first hand operational experience of how security in my country works.

So are you for one minuite suggesting that the express tribune a US affiliated newspaper and DAWN the most respected newspaper in the whole of Pakistan are lying?

Did I just pull those statistics out off my hat? Those videos are what they are? Don't beliee me google them yourself.

Are you saying that a run flat doesn't cost $600 and $800 respectively? Or the prices for the vehicles and aircraft maintaiance quoted are false but all of those are FACT!

BTW you conveniently chose to ignore the video I posted of Hamza Sharif using government security apparatus and being provided more security than that provided to a former prime minister.

If anything, you have not fully digested my argument because you are so blinded by your own presumed knowledge that you can not tell fact from fiction.

All the information I have provided you is fact with sources and all you have provided me is some nonsensical rebut all of how you have seen the security detail of Zia and mush both of which were army men and would have been protected by 111 brigade.

We are talking about civilian leaders here, something you have failed to grasp is you are taking to someone who worked and continues to work in this field.

I too have worked on PSDs etc etc etc, things I'd rather not share on an open forum.

If you have worked in Pakistan at the time of Mush can you tell me the name of the RSO stationed at the American counsulate at the time? You can tell me via PM if you like.

if you indeed Have seen the PSD provided to gen m then you would know that civilian ministers are protected by the police and the military leadership is protected by the military.

Don't sit there and lecture me with nonsense, it's easy for an outsider looking in.

You have yet to provide me with one factual argument. Now if you would care to deal in facts with sources a debate is most welcome, otherwise quit wasting my time and yours.

But does Imran khan not use govt police? Like in kpk?

And yeah sure you have first hand information when most of the material you post is fake and propagandistic.

 

[Jango]

Taking credit for petrol prices eh?

parents telling little kids 'nara lagao Nawaz Sharif'.

I mean what the heck is this cheap attitude? Telling little kids stuff like this. This goes for all parents irrespective of political party.

Shake hands, smile, meet and greet is ok, but saying 'nara lagao' to a little kid...disgusting IMO.

 

[RescueRanger]

But does Imran khan not use govt police? Like in kpk?

And yeah sure you have first hand information when most of the material you post is fake and propagandistic.

1. Does Imran Khan's children fly in KPK Government helicopter
2. How many vehicles does IK use for PSD? vis-a-vis CM/HSS? I'm not including PM because PM will have higher layer
3. Dawn is propaganda now? Get real, the journalists at Dawn would like to have a word with you if you think the publish propaganda: you can contact zafar abbas directly on editor@dawn.com.
4. Express Tribune is propaganda? Contact them on: editorial@tribune.com.pk and watch them laugh at your face!
---
Finally both you and that american dude failed to understand the point I was trying to make. But that's okay, you see me as some PTI man so obviously I would only be posting such things to discredit NS and not to highlight that VVIP security in Pakistan is the curse of the nation?

Commonsense needs to be applied when looking at peoples post, you took my entire post with factual information that can be verified by the following:

Prices of run flat tires can be confirmed by calling:
Shahnawaz PVT Limited (Registered Mercedes Distributor, Pak) 051-2605601-04

Prices of CV filter can be confirmed by calling: Toyota Capital motors: 111-142-142

Prices of Armored vehicles can be confirmed by contacting:
Toyota Capital at above number
Sarawan Security: 051-111-777-768
International armoring group: 01801-393-1075

Prices for maintenance of a Mi17 / Bell 222 and Eurocopter can be confirmed by calling either of the two:
Princely Jets Pakistan: +92-213-5674230-31
Askari Aviation: +(92 51) 5505760-6

Budget for Policing has been uploaded as a PDF for you.

Also if you think I like to post basesless nonsense, according to the Center of International and Strategic Analysis: The budget for VIP protection varies in urban and rural areas, but on average consumes around 30 percent of the functional operating (as opposed to total budget, more than 90% of which is said to be consumed by salaries) police budget. It is estimated to be around 50 percent in major urban centers of the country.
Source: http://strategiskanalyse.no/Publikasjoner 2014/2014-06-05_SISA25_NISP_Challenges_Ahead_MZ.pdf

----
As I said to the American, if you have facts to provide, please do so. But please don't counter my entire debate with a one liner... That is just plain rude.

 

[Jango]

3) The PM's security is your military's responsibility per the constitution. There will ALWAYS be 111 Brigade's small contingent assign to protect the PM. PLUS, the Security detail comes from a Brigadier ranked officer assigned to your PM's office by your military. He sits in the PM house and without his approval, the PM doesn't move. It was the military's decision to send your PM's bullet proof vehicle to Nepal no to long ago.
If you don't believe it, check out a clearer video again and you'll see a couple of unmarked cars with black tinted screens. Those are your special forces guys assigned to protect your PM and they specialize in counter assault, in case someone initiated an assault on the motorcade.

No, no, no, no, no and no. Wrong on all accounts. That's what I'll say.

 

[RescueRanger]

Your are supposed to be a TT........hhmmmmmm!!

Yes I am actually, Now if you have an issue with my standing on this forum well than my friend what can I say, you are really very sad. Now what I am outside PDF, that is what really matters. But no matter, you keep thinking everyone you meet online is a keyboard warrior.

One day you will be in for a rude awakening my friend.

 

[syedali73]

Hyperbole,

And please don't think you are talking to some stray off the street. I have first hand operational experience of how security in my country works.

So are you for one minuite suggesting that the express tribune a US affiliated newspaper and DAWN the most respected newspaper in the whole of Pakistan are lying?

Did I just pull those statistics out off my hat? Those videos are what they are? Don't beliee me google them yourself.

Are you saying that a run flat doesn't cost $600 and $800 respectively? Or the prices for the vehicles and aircraft maintaiance quoted are false but all of those are FACT!

BTW you conveniently chose to ignore the video I posted of Hamza Sharif using government security apparatus and being provided more security than that provided to a former prime minister.

If anything, you have not fully digested my argument because you are so blinded by your own presumed knowledge that you can not tell fact from fiction.

All the information I have provided you is fact with sources and all you have provided me is some nonsensical rebut all of how you have seen the security detail of Zia and mush both of which were army men and would have been protected by 111 brigade.

We are talking about civilian leaders here, something you have failed to grasp is you are taking to someone who worked and continues to work in this field.

I too have worked on PSDs etc etc etc, things I'd rather not share on an open forum.

If you have worked in Pakistan at the time of Mush can you tell me the name of the RSO stationed at the American counsulate at the time? You can tell me via PM if you like.

if you indeed Have seen the PSD provided to gen m then you would know that civilian ministers are protected by the police and the military leadership is protected by the military.

Don't sit there and lecture me with nonsense, it's easy for an outsider looking in.

You have yet to provide me with one factual argument. Now if you would care to deal in facts with sources a debate is most welcome, otherwise quit wasting my time and yours.

I have not seen you this angry before. Boy that was some classic chhithrol.

 

[Jango]

BTW, what about the enroachements my dear PM?

Even the fruit stall you visited was made 'illegaly' on a footpath, hence an enroachment of public property. Heck, all of the G-10 market is public enroachement.

Do something about that? Just a few hundred feet after G-10 Markaz, the Shell pump is selling sh!t quality fuel, please do something about that.

In G-10 area (My house is in G/10/2, water is not available in summer or winter. You have to order a water bowzer either at fajr time for it to come by evening or it will come tomorrow. (We have now resorted to water boring).

These token photo shoots are of no use sadly.

Fruit prices can be checked by under cover plainclothes CDA or Police officials who would then report them to the PM, without the trader actually knowing.

 

[RescueRanger]

I have not seen you this angry before. Boy that was some classic chhithrol.

It's not that I am angry, I can't believe that people would just outright "pooh, pooh" a very valid point I was making that people do die of heat exhaustion waiting in queues in boiling heat due to VIP movement, that the budget is being wasted on unnecessary security measures and that that money could be better spent elsewhere.

Heck If IK started doing the same, I would be the first person outside his house in Banni Galla protesting. And then he says he has seen the "vehicles and protocol" of Mush and Zia, is that supposed to impress me? I mean I can drop names too, bigger than both of those but that would be childish.

And that detracts from the point that both of those chaps were "military" men with "military" office so no wonder 111 brigade was protecting them. Anyway I have asked him politely to let me know the name of the RSO at the consulate, if he was working in a security function with the Americans here then he should know the name of the RSO stationed in that year.

BTW, what about the enroachements my dear PM?

Even the fruit stall you visited was made 'illegaly' on a footpath, hence an enroachment of public property. Heck, all of the G-10 market is public enroachement.

Do something about that? Just a few hundred feet after G-10 Markaz, the Shell pump is selling sh!t quality fuel, please do something about that.

In G-10 area (My house is in G/10/2, water is not available in summer or winter. You have to order a water bowzer either at fajr time for it to come by evening or it will come tomorrow. (We have now resorted to water boring).

These token photo shoots are of no use sadly.

Fruit prices can be checked by under cover plainclothes CDA or Police officials who would then report them to the PM, without the trader actually knowing.

Sir, he doesn't give a damn. 100 rupees for kilo tamatar in Islamabad, even though they only make a few hours journey from SWAT into Islamabad....

 

[Jzaib]

Nawaz sharif is a progressive leader widely respected, but you need to know that people give verdict in elections , he has 150 seats in National assembly while second and third party are way behind like 35 and 33 seats respectively . so people show confidence in elections which they did in 2013 elections . Now lets talk about people who oppose him , he is a political figure and politicians have rivals , like Gandhi jee had rivals, Moodi has rivals etc . But the vast majority has trust over him as he is a national leader .

what is the defination of progressive for patwaris??
someone who dnt give important seats to anyone but his own family members? Anyone who murder people? anyone how is involved in money oundering, anyone with links with terrorist

Interesting! But don't you think , that as his all business is in Pak and it relies mostly on prosperity of people of Pak, he would work to achieve that. I just don't understand the blind hate as in even if he tries to do something good , he isn't appreciated for it........

not true . Most of his business is abroad. more over watch BBC documentary on nawaz sharif money laundering . The current Fiannace minsiter give signed affidavit against nawaz sharif, who is also his samdhi.

 

[WishLivePak]

1. Does Imran Khan's children fly in KPK Government helicopter
2. How many vehicles does IK use for PSD? vis-a-vis CM/HSS? I'm not including PM because PM will have higher layer
3. Dawn is propaganda now? Get real, the journalists at Dawn would like to have a word with you if you think the publish propaganda: you can contact zafar abbas directly on editor@dawn.com.
4. Express Tribune is propaganda? Contact them on: editorial@tribune.com.pk and watch them laugh at your face!
---
Finally both you and that american dude failed to understand the point I was trying to make. But that's okay, you see me as some PTI man so obviously I would only be posting such things to discredit NS and not to highlight that VVIP security in Pakistan is the curse of the nation?

Commonsense needs to be applied when looking at peoples post, you took my entire post with factual information that can be verified by the following:

Prices of run flat tires can be confirmed by calling:
Shahnawaz PVT Limited (Registered Mercedes Distributor, Pak) 051-2605601-04

Prices of CV filter can be confirmed by calling: Toyota Capital motors: 111-142-142

Prices of Armored vehicles can be confirmed by contacting:
Toyota Capital at above number
Sarawan Security: 051-111-777-768
International armoring group: 01801-393-1075

Prices for maintenance of a Mi17 / Bell 222 and Eurocopter can be confirmed by calling either of the two:
Princely Jets Pakistan: +92-213-5674230-31
Askari Aviation: +(92 51) 5505760-6

Budget for Policing has been uploaded as a PDF for you.

Also if you think I like to post basesless nonsense, according to the Center of International and Strategic Analysis: The budget for VIP protection varies in urban and rural areas, but on average consumes around 30 percent of the functional operating (as opposed to total budget, more than 90% of which is said to be consumed by salaries) police budget. It is estimated to be around 50 percent in major urban centers of the country.
Source: http://strategiskanalyse.no/Publikasjoner 2014/2014-06-05_SISA25_NISP_Challenges_Ahead_MZ.pdf

----
As I said to the American, if you have facts to provide, please do so. But please don't counter my entire debate with a one liner... That is just plain rude.

Did you manage to read @Tameem post?

It's funny how many people cry here and say tribune and dawn are sold out when they don't praise PTI enough. Let's not forget how Dawn reported that Nawaz sheriff was asked to step down by Raheal sheriff. The point is, they're not propagandistic, it is you. You posted many irrelevant pictures (like one from indonasia and then saying it was from Lahore, going on about how it's hot in Lahore and not safe etc). This is propaganda.

Then you say every point of yours is valid and we shouldn't "pooh pooh"

And would you like to know that Raheal sharif bought $30m jet using tax payers money and then took his wife to London in it? So what if Nawaz takes wives and kids? Many head of governments do it, big example is Obama.

And finally, Pakistani armored cars does not equal German armored cars. You should look into the security features of BMW armored vehicles to get familiar.

 

[RescueRanger]

Did you manage to read @Tameem post?

It's funny how many people cry here and say tribune and dawn are sold out when they don't praise PTI enough. Let's not forget how Dawn reported that Nawaz sheriff was asked to step down by Raheal sheriff. The point is, they're not propagandistic, it is you. You posted many irrelevant pictures (like one from indonasia and then saying it was from Lahore, going on about how it's hot in Lahore and not safe etc). This is propaganda.

Then you say every point of yours is valid and we shouldn't "pooh pooh"

Answer me this... Did you read the reports I attached, if you did not then please don't debate any further with me. Thank you